New allegations on BO

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yup. It's ugly. Now of course they probably have a claim over against whoever submitted these fraudulent cards, be it Brent or Gary, for breach of the submission agreement and maybe fraud, but that's probably not much consolation.

They also face the possibility of securities fraud claims, I suppose, if they have reason to know their reserve is materially insufficient.

I imagine Brent will blame it all on Moser, PSA and refer to his tenets as the authority to make it all seem ok, PSA will blame Brent and Moser for duping them and Moser will blame Brent, I suspect for conspiring with him to commit fraud. Ultimately that will be for the Feds and lawyers to sort out as to whom is responsible for what. The bottom line is assuming all of the research BO is doing is accurate, they are all guilty in part and will be held accountable whether it be financial or criminal. And until there’s a better system of somehow marking cards that get graded so any attempt at altering (or conserving as Brent would say) can be easily caught, this cycle will repeat itself again in the next few years. Just too much money at stake.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

I imagine Brent will blame it all on Moser, PSA and refer to his tenets as the authority to make it all seem ok, PSA will blame Brent and Moser for duping them and Moser will blame Brent, I suspect for conspiring with him to commit fraud. Ultimately that will be for the Feds and lawyers to sort out as to whom is responsible for what. The bottom line is assuming all of the research BO is doing is accurate, they are all guilty in part and will be held accountable whether it be financial or criminal. And until there’s a better system of somehow marking cards that get graded so any attempt at altering (or conserving as Brent would say) can be easily caught, this cycle will repeat itself again in the next few years. Just too much money at stake.

Brent can't blame Moser.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

I imagine Brent will blame it all on Moser, PSA and refer to his tenets as the authority to make it all seem ok, PSA will blame Brent and Moser for duping them and Moser will blame Brent, I suspect for conspiring with him to commit fraud. Ultimately that will be for the Feds and lawyers to sort out as to whom is responsible for what. The bottom line is assuming all of the research BO is doing is accurate, they are all guilty in part and will be held accountable whether it be financial or criminal. And until there’s a better system of somehow marking cards that get graded so any attempt at altering (or conserving as Brent would say) can be easily caught, this cycle will repeat itself again in the next few years. Just too much money at stake.

Here is my solution to this

Search warrants for one Slimy Business and all their dealings...find out whom the guys are resubmitted the doctored cards...who’s invoices are they using...

I said this months ago on board use the daube they use on PSA/DNA items it’s invisible, only psa can see, would insure once graded or not graded that’s it done ✅ if crack, doctor and resub it would instantly show what’s going on....idk maybe It’s a insane idea and would cut down on resubs and crack outs but it would stop this mess....or at least attempt to prevent it daube all items log grade and or non grade and done.

Sure people and PSA will hate this cause they won’t be able to crack out and gamble but it’s a solution.

[swarmee]

So the way to prevent future card alterations is to alter the card? Not buying it, plus PSA would have to share with BGS, SGC etc their technology because they have competitors. And there are 30 million cards in slabs that have not had this done.

[Johnny630]

It’s not altering a card.....it’s done on all psa/dna Signed items now...including vintage signed cards...
Only new items ... PSA can’t go back and change what happened in the past they can only find a solution to try and prevent

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Sure people and PSA will hate this cause they won’t be able to crack out and gamble but it’s a solution.

But why shouldn't people be allowed to crack out and resubmit for a chance at a higher grade? It's the altering between the crack out and resubmission that the problem, but not the folks that are just trying for a half grade bump and not altering the card any.

[Johnny630]

It’s a solution........good guys are collateral damage as always thank the crooks mentioned above who have been exposed

PSA has to do something .......

[CobbSpikedMe]

I hear ya. I just feel like PSA needs to get better at detecting alterations and labelling cards as such instead of stopping people from resubmitting cards.

[Johnny630]

Well I feel your pain too.....PSA isn’t gonna wanna do this they get tons of money on crack out and submit again......however....if they can’t trust their grader with catching doctored altered cards how in heck can their Brand And Opinion be substantiated......Something has to be done to catch altered cards what they’re doing now isn’t working ......to me .my idea would work
It’s accurate as hell

[sportscardtheory]

I would never let a company that allows altered cards to be given numerical grades mark my cards. No way.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

But why shouldn't people be allowed to crack out and resubmit for a chance at a higher grade? It's the altering between the crack out and resubmission that the problem, but not the folks that are just trying for a half grade bump and not altering the card any.

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

Much better success rate presumably.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much better success rate presumably.

I guess you are right. Like Andy, I am not a submitter, and the few times I asked for a bump (with decent success), I submitted in the flip. I would be too nervous to crack.

Also, PEOPLE, just stop responding to that idiot’s D-Bag post. You are giving it legs it doesn’t deserve. “And that about all I have to say about that” Forrest Gump

How about a card - I think this is misgraded; there is no way this is altered. SGC blew it! the tape holding the card together was most definitely put on in the Croft’s factory, in 1909 and sold like this.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

How about a card - I think this is misgraded; there is no way this is altered. SGC blew it! the tape holding the card together was most definitely put on in the Croft’s factory, in 1909 and sold like this.

SGC's "A" does not definitely mean the card was altered. It could have been requested only to be autheticated when it was submitted, or the other general reason for an A if not altered is it's considered worse than poor. I agree with you that the assumption most people are going to have is that it's altered - but based on my understanding of the way SGC does things - that is not necessarily the case.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Andy, you can always ask a grader/TPG to reconsider their grade. Why do you need to crack and submit to do that?

First, I have to admit, I've never submitted a card for grading so I don't know why someone would crack and resubmit but I thought that's what people do. I just didn't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that any more.

[Johnny630]

Solution My Idea VS Spinning Wheels complaining and allowing to go on
I know it sucks but it’s the crooks mentioned above fault along with their ineptitude of not catching when grading cards....
if that could be fixed without this we wouldn’t even be having this talk ....they obviously can’t get it done over there

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

....they obviously can’t get it done over there

That I agree with for sure.

[Johnny630]

I want PSA to be a great company to be around to be viable and to be the best. I have a Lotta big cards in their holders. I do not believe they are in on this not one bit, they are just very inept at catching this right now when grading cards. I want them to get better and to succeed I believe a true solution is my solution that I mentioned above. I don’t want this to happen but I think right now it’s needed. They are trying their best and I do not believe they are part of the fraud that is going on....It’s not smart for their business I would never expect that from them. They have a Lotta good people over there and business along with their shareholders his first

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

But why shouldn't people be allowed to crack out and resubmit for a chance at a higher grade? It's the altering between the crack out and resubmission that the problem, but not the folks that are just trying for a half grade bump and not altering the card any.

Exactly!

Say you submit a card that ends up in the hands of the G.O.D. on a bad day, and it gets graded harshly. Shouldn't you be able to resubmit it to get the grade it should have?

We all know this has happened many times; a card is submitted and it gets a 7. The person knows damned well that the card deserves a 9, so he resubmits it. It ultimately gets graded correctly as a 9.

That is a problem I see in all this commotion right now. A card was initially submitted, and got a 3. It was resubmitted and now, it's a 5. Which one is actually correct? The 3 could have been from the G.O.D. on a bad day, in which case, the 5 is correct.

I am not saying that all of this is simply "much ado about nothing"; not in the slightest. I believe certain individuals have been gaming the system; but, people have been gaming the system for decades upon decades. This isn't a new thing. It needs to be stopped and fixed, but the hobby will go on.

Steve