Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[glynparson]

Sorry Brent but conservation is anything done so the item exists for a longer period of time that’s it. Restoration is done to improve the items appearance and can be used to deceive buyers into thinking an item is in better natural condition than it truly is (if not disclosed)That is it end of definitions. All this other stuff is spin to try and justify what in my opinion is altering a card. Even some of the things I hear Leon and others saying are ok is altering. Erasing marks is altering a card in my opinion. Any chemicals that could degrade or change the paper in anyway is alteration in my opinion. Really not a fan of this statement at all and I think You, Brent, have done some positive things so this isn’t just an i hate PWCC opinion. I have used your consignment services and was generally impressed with how you guys handled my cards. The final things that worry me are the issues brought up on blowout that seem to indicate a preference for giving your own cards these stickers that seem to add significant value. That is an issue I’d love to see you adddress openly and honestly. Also the apparent partnering that was supposedly exposed on blowout with someone many consider a prolific card doctor. Those issues are important to many of us who have used your services as a buyer and a seller.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Erasing marks is altering a card in my opinion.

The mark IS an alteration to the card. The opposite of an alteration is preservation. So if erasing the mark removes it, then erasing is preservation whether you agree or not. I'm not saying that it's ok and I believe it should be disclosed when known. I'm just trying to clear up the difference concerning the mark.

[glynparson]

No David that would be restoring. Not preserving nice try though. Because you are taking something that was changed and restoring it to how it was originally. That isn’t preservation. Stopping one from marking it in the first place would be preserving it. You really get off trying to be mr cool and edgy on the net don’t you. And why do you hide your name with characters if you type David and James into google there are over 2 billion hits seriously what the hell are you so worried about someone seeing out of that many hits.

Plus people Erase marks that are from The factory like print marks on the border. Seriously let this conversation for those that know what the hell they are talking about. But as we know you just need the drama must make you feel important or something. Once the alteration occurs it’s altered there’s no going back. Making more alterations is t doing anything but making more alterations.

[chalupacollects]

This just sounds like a way to legitimize the fraud that has been uncovered over the last several months on some of the other forums. The "tenets" proposed above do not state how PWCC will manage the dissemination of information to the buying public that a card has been restored, conserved or otherwise monkeyed with...

[ullmandds]

I totally agree that this "move" is an attempt to rationalize the deceptive/corrupt/unethical practices that PWCC has engaged in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I totally agree that this "move" is an attempt to rationalize the deceptive/corrupt/unethical practices that PWCC has engaged in.

Or it may be directed at a target audience that is new to the game and doesn't know any better.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Or it may be directed at a target audience that is new to the game and doesn't know any better.

yes...that too!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

No David that would be restoring. Not preserving nice try though. Because you are taking something that was changed and restoring it to how it was originally. That isn’t preservation. Stopping one from marking it in the first place would be preserving it. You really get off trying to be mr cool and edgy on the net don’t you. And why do you hide your name with characters if you type David and James into google there are over 2 billion hits seriously what the hell are you so worried about someone seeing out of that many hits.

Plus people Erase marks that are from The factory like print marks on the border. Seriously let this conversation for those that know what the hell they are talking about. But as we know you just need the drama must make you feel important or something. Once the alteration occurs it’s altered there’s no going back. Making more alterations is t doing anything but making more alterations.

LOL, you took the time to Google my name. I didn't know you cared so much. Thanks, Glyn.

So, if some 8 year old marked on a card in 1953, what do you consider that? I consider it an alteration. But let's hear what you have to say. Impart some wisdom on us, Glyn.

[Republicaninmass]

Anyone really care what some freaking hayseed in Oregon thinks about cards? The hobby has been around, and will be around longer than he has.

How about fraud vs deception defined?

Shilling vs bid retractions?

Tax avoidance vs tax differal?

Handling vs shipping charges?

He needs a whole team of spin doctors

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Sorry Brent but conservation is anything done so the item exists for a longer period of time that’s it. Restoration is done to improve the items appearance and can be used to deceive buyers into thinking an item is in better natural condition than it truly is (if not disclosed)That is it end of definitions. All this other stuff is spin to try and justify what in my opinion is altering a card. Even some of the things I hear Leon and others saying are ok is altering. Erasing marks is altering a card in my opinion. Any chemicals that could degrade or change the paper in anyway is alteration in my opinion. Really not a fan of this statement at all and I think You, Brent, have done some positive things so this isn’t just an i hate PWCC opinion. I have used your consignment services and was generally impressed with how you guys handled my cards. The final things that worry me are the issues brought up on blowout that seem to indicate a preference for giving your own cards these stickers that seem to add significant value. That is an issue I’d love to see you adddress openly and honestly. Also the apparent partnering that was supposedly exposed on blowout with someone many consider a prolific card doctor. Those issues are important to many of us who have used your services as a buyer and a seller.

Glyn, there is no question -- none -- that that individual has been consigning to PWCC since the very beginning.

Edit to add accepting consignments from questionable sources is, of course, not even remotely unique to PWCC.