Surviving Copies of the 1939 United States Card Collectors Catalog

[teza11]

I posted this thread over on the non-sport board. Dave Hornish suggested I add it here as well.

Hi. This year will mark the 80th anniversary of J.R. Burdick's inaugural run of the United States Card Collectors Catalog (subsequently named the American Card Catalog). Published June 1, 1939, Burdick produced only 500 copies which were reportedly personally bound by Burdick and his inner circle.

So it got me thinking....500 total copies. How many surviving copies might exist today?

I found 9. Any other unique front covers to add?

Jeff

[trdcrdkid]

Second from the left on the bottom row looks like my copy.

[prestigecollectibles]

REA had this one too

[prestigecollectibles]

Found another one that appears to be different

[Leon]

I have one and will have to see if it is one listed. But these docs, shown before, seem pertinent to the thread too.

[teza11]

David - I agree, your's is already pictured.

Robert - thanks for the submissions, however both are 1939 "Bulletins" and not the catalogs I'm seeking in this thread.

Great read Leon. Confirms the count. I'd like to pick-up a couple more for $.50 a piece.

Henry has one that is missing its cover. That brings the known count to 10.

There has to be several more held in personal collections. Let's seen them boys!

Jeff

[prestigecollectibles]

Oops, I didn't even realize they said Bulletin.

Originally Posted by teza11

David - I agree, your's is already pictured.

Robert - thanks for the submissions, however both are 1939 "Bulletins" and not the catalogs I'm seeking in this thread.

Great read Leon. Confirms the count. I'd like to pick-up a couple more for $.50 a piece.

Henry has one that is missing its cover. That brings the known count to 10.

There has to be several more held in personal collections. Let's seen them boys!

Jeff

[barrysloate]

I have to agree with Burdick on this one. Whenever I mount my cards into an album, I only use glue made of boiled up horses hoofs. I will only settle for the best.

[david_l]

Ha. That’s really interesting that Burdick talks about soaking cards.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I have to agree with Burdick on this one. Whenever I mount my cards into an album, I only use glue made of boiled up horses hoofs. I will only settle for the best.

Barry frequents that little sundry shoppe near Belmont Race Track, where he buys his Triple Crown Glue.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I have to agree with Burdick on this one. Whenever I mount my cards into an album, I only use glue made of boiled up horses hoofs. I will only settle for the best.

Time to call PETA?

Does anyone know how often updates were released? Sounds like a fun hobby collectible.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Barry frequents that little sundry shoppe near Belmont Race Track, where he buys his Triple Crown Glue.

I actually have a big investment in a rendering factory. Nothing like the smell of glue early in the morning.

[oaks1912]

Here is a copy of mine, with the unique stain

[teza11]

Thanks Mark! That now brings the known count to a whopping 11... Who else can fill out the third row? Updated pic below.

Jeff

[Leon]

Here is mine. I am not sure it's listed.

To the OP- Please quit PM'ing me with questions. Any question about the ACC can be asked here, publicly. Based on the PM's I hope this whole exercise wasn't to try to increase the value by showing how rare these are. They would be more valuable if there was more demand but many of these were kept over the years. Now, if you have ACC supplements, that is another level of scarcity but the value still isn't a ton due to lack of demand. Good luck either way. Many of us study the old history because we like it, not for any money that can be made from it.
Thanks

[teza11]

Leon,

Your's does appear to be an add. That put's us at 12!

As for your other comments, I love the history of card collecting perhaps more than I do collecting cards. I feel pretty confident in saying that my thread is not news to anyone on here. We all know that the early ACC's are tough, especially 1939. No hidden agenda on my part. Feel free to delete this thread if you want.

Jeff

[teza11]

Updated pic with Leon's added. Enjoy!

[Leon]

No reason to delete a thread. I was just making a comment. Obviously myself and several others on the board enjoy studying the history of the hobby. And actually, even if it was only monetarily motivated, it's not a problem. I was sort of referring to all of the PMs (I guess from the non sports side) which I was a part of, somehow or another. But if you enjoy studying the history of the hobby for other than a flash ( of time) in the pan, all the better. The more the merrier. I am sure there are more than a few members who have one but won't really chime in. Most members don't post, they only read. To each their own. Happy Collecting.

Originally Posted by teza11

Leon,

Your's does appear to be an add. That put's us at 12!

As for your other comments, I love the history of card collecting perhaps more than I do collecting cards. I feel pretty confident in saying that my thread is not news to anyone on here. We all know that the early ACC's are tough, especially 1939. No hidden agenda on my part. Feel free to delete this thread if you want.

Jeff

[teza11]

Thanks for posting the 1943 supplement Leon. I have not seen that. I have a 1949.

Jeff

[egbeachley]

interesting now the 1943 Supplement values 66 cards at $2.00 a piece, of which the T206 Wagner and Plank are just two of them.

[Leon]

Burdick was always against the monetary aspect of collecting. He kept values down, in his catalogs, because of that. There are several different, yearly supplements known.

Originally Posted by egbeachley

interesting now the 1943 Supplement values 66 cards at $2.00 a piece, of which the T206 Wagner and Plank are just two of them.

[Ricky]

I think, based on what I've read about him, Jeff Burdick would be very disappointed with the state of the hobby right now - counterfeit cards, reprints, trimmed cards and above all, astronomical prices, especially on vintage cards which were really what he loved, that have priced so many people out of the hobby. Burdick wanted collecting to be open for all and be for the sake of collecting, not investing.

[tim_uk]

I picked up a 'modern' (1990) Card Collectors Bulletin, published by Chris Benjamin, that advertises reprints of the US Card Collectors Catalog 1939. I've never seen any of these reproduction copies come up - does anyone know how many of the reproductions are knocking around?

And, while we're on the topic, does anyone know how the Burdick/Bray CCB become resurrected in this modern format? Does anyone keep records of the full list of CCBs extending into this more 'modern' era?

(screenshots below)

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by tim_uk

I picked up a 'modern' (1990) Card Collectors Bulletin, published by Chris Benjamin, that advertises reprints of the US Card Collectors Catalog 1939. I've never seen any of these reproduction copies come up - does anyone know how many of the reproductions are knocking around?

And, while we're on the topic, does anyone know how the Burdick/Bray CCB become resurrected in this modern format? Does anyone keep records of the full list of CCBs extending into this more 'modern' era?

I've never seen Benjamin's reproduction of the 1939 USCCC, but I have some of his other spiral-bound publications from that period.

I have most, but not all, issues of Card Collector's Bulletin from the mid-1950s to the early 1980s. (Plus all from 1939-44 and all but a few from 1944-1950.) Unfortunately I don't have my list here with me, but I can look at it Monday. Charles Bray took over the editorship from Jefferson Burdick in mid-1949, on CCB's tenth anniversary, so that Burdick could focus on organizing, cataloguing, and mounting his card collection for the Metropolitan Museum of Art. (I posted Burdick's 1947-1949 articles about that process here: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240887 .) Starting in the late 1960s, there were fewer and fewer articles in CCB, and it became more and more just an auction listing. From the mid-1970s on, I don't remember seeing any articles in CCB other than brief news items and announcements from Bray. In the early 1980s, the format became more erratic, as did Bray's typing; he sometimes forgot to include the issue number, the date of the issue, and/or the ending date of the auction. The last issue I have is from 1982 or 1983, but I'm not sure if it's the last one that was published before Bray died in 1984. After his death, Chris Benjamin bought the rights to the Card Collector's Bulletin name and historical content, and in 1986 or 1987 he began publishing a new incarnation, which was much more focused on articles and no longer included an auction. I'm not sure how long that incarnation lasted, but I don't think it went past about 1993 or so; I have some but not all of those. I can look next week and see what issues I have.

[tim_uk]

That's interesting to hear how Chris Benjamin picked up the rights to CCB. His issue numbering seems to follow on from the volume and issue# pattern established by Burdick and Bray - but no idea whether there is a smooth progression of issues.

It would be great if we could join forces to compile some form of official list of the hobby journal issues and start to create some form of orderly catalog of the hobby publications - starting from that first Burdick issue, or even the [8] articles he wrote in Hobbies - see George Vrechek article on early articles:
http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/SCD_Hobbies.pdf

In the UK, I have catalogued (at least in my head!) most of the mainstream hobby publications, starting from a few that appeared in the 1930s. For example, the London Cigarette Card Company magazine (currently known as "Card Collectors News", but which has had several name changes over the years) has been issued continuously from October 1933, mostly monthly, and the January 2019 issue is number 892 (volume 80). There are a few mis-types and missing issues in many of these, based on loose editorship / illnesses / wartime intervention etc over the years - so the 'complete runs' are rarely smooth monthly / bi-monthly etc. So some care and research is required, to fill in all the gaps.

We would need a suitable location/place/forum to coordinate such an effort.

And it would also be great to then publish this, in due course, as a lasting record for similarly minded hobby history enthusiasts!

I'm new to net54baseball.com, but maybe we need a new thread for this to explore whether such an effort is possible .....

[Leon]

Well, happy to observe you aren't a flash in the pan about collecting and studying the (baseball) card collecting hobby. I don't know that a list of every hobby publication is even possible? There is no doubt both David and I (and many others) have some unique, or almost uniquely saved, publications. It would make it difficult to try to get them all. But it could be fun trying. And, if I am not mistaking, there was at least 1 1929 article, concerning collecting. George V and I have exchanged a lot of communications and information over the years. He is one of the best at studying Burdick and the early hobby.

Originally Posted by tim_uk

That's interesting to hear how Chris Benjamin picked up the rights to CCB. His issue numbering seems to follow on from the volume and issue# pattern established by Burdick and Bray - but no idea whether there is a smooth progression of issues.

It would be great if we could join forces to compile some form of official list of the hobby journal issues and start to create some form of orderly catalog of the hobby publications - starting from that first Burdick issue, or even the [8] articles he wrote in Hobbies - see George Vrechek article on early articles:
http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/SCD_Hobbies.pdf

In the UK, I have catalogued (at least in my head!) most of the mainstream hobby publications, starting from a few that appeared in the 1930s. For example, the London Cigarette Card Company magazine (currently known as "Card Collectors News", but which has had several name changes over the years) has been issued continuously from October 1933, mostly monthly, and the January 2019 issue is number 892 (volume 80). There are a few mis-types and missing issues in many of these, based on loose editorship / illnesses / wartime intervention etc over the years - so the 'complete runs' are rarely smooth monthly / bi-monthly etc. So some care and research is required, to fill in all the gaps.

We would need a suitable location/place/forum to coordinate such an effort.

And it would also be great to then publish this, in due course, as a lasting record for similarly minded hobby history enthusiasts!

I'm new to net54baseball.com, but maybe we need a new thread for this to explore whether such an effort is possible .....

[tim_uk]

The CSGB has a copy of the 1939 USA catalogue. I don't, however, have a photo of the front cover. You'll have to make do with the entry on the website, shown below. The CSGB library is here:
https://www.card-world.co.uk/referen...rials/library/

[trdcrdkid]

I'm a member of the Cartophilic Society of Great Britain and was in touch with their librarian a couple of years ago. Those books are stored away in his attic, somewhere in the Midlands, I think. I should try to e-mail him again, because he was going to photocopy some things for me.

[AbeCurry]

Younger generation here checking in. Going into to 2022 I've decided to change the way I go about collecting. I hate what the "new" collectors are doing. It's ruining this great hobby. Due to that, I've decided to focus on the "middle" period between WWI and WW2, starting with the 1933 Goudey set. I'm well on my way there and was also able to find an original 1939 ACC that I picked up.

It doesn't seem to be part of the group so I wanted to have it added.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HjW...ew?usp=sharing

[ValKehl]

Nice first post, and congrats on acquiring this important hobby pub!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by AbeCurry

Younger generation here checking in. Going into to 2022 I've decided to change the way I go about collecting. I hate what the "new" collectors are doing. It's ruining this great hobby. Due to that, I've decided to focus on the "middle" period between WWI and WW2, starting with the 1933 Goudey set. I'm well on my way there and was also able to find an original 1939 ACC that I picked up.

It doesn't seem to be part of the group so I wanted to have it added.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HjW...ew?usp=sharing

Agree, nice first post and welcome to the forum....I have 2 copies of the 1939 edition....plus a uniquely known letter announcing it.

Here is a thread concerning Burdick.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...Burdick+letter

.

[AbeCurry]

Hi Leon,

Wow, such an incredible letter. Have you made it through the thousands of letters and other ephemera from the Wagner lot? Looks like you have some really great content to write a book

[Hankphenom]

Such an interesting topic. I'll have to go back and search for other early hobby pubs threads.

[Carter08]

The Burdick letter is great. My favorite line: Give me all the dope and ideas you can think of.

[GasHouseGang]

I downloaded the entire catalog page by page from someone's website (or maybe it was posted on Net54). It is 112 individual pages. I don't remember who posted it, but it looks like the Dan Calandriello copy.

[teza11]

Nice add Abe. Your copy has been added.

Jeff

[FrankWakefield]

As stated above, Mr. Burdick would most likely be displeased with the current state of the hobby.

And as to his mention of soaking; people would have started soaking T206s soon after the cards came out. A collector gathers cards, pastes them into an album, then it isn't long until additional cards have been gathered which could lead to reorganizing the order on the pages. How many of us have moved cards a few spaces over in 9 or 15 pocket sheets? I truly believe that there are very few T206s that are in decent shape or better that didn't get soaked at some point. And I see nothing wrong with that.

Founding fathers... Burdick, Nagle, Wagner (the collector).

A wonderful letter, and thread. Kinda makes me wish I'd not gotten a hardbound, newer ACC; and had instead gotten that 1939 edition. Thanks for posting.

[darb44]

Thanks for this post I used it to help authenticate a copy I was looking at that I believe to be legit. It just showed up in the mail and looks very clean. If I wanted to authenticate and possibly slab it similar to how comic books are slabbed, who would you all recommend? I believe CSG is the leader in comics but have no idea if they’d be able to deal in this. Thoughts?

[darb44]

Also happy to post pictures to add to this thread

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by darb44

Thanks for this post I used it to help authenticate a copy I was looking at that I believe to be legit. It just showed up in the mail and looks very clean. If I wanted to authenticate and possibly slab it similar to how comic books are slabbed, who would you all recommend? I believe CSG is the leader in comics but have no idea if they’d be able to deal in this. Thoughts?

CGC is the portion of that company that does comics and magazines. I'm sure they'd love to grade it.

[teza11]

Updated image to include Brad's recent pick-up.

Jeff

[darb44]

Hey all,

Here was my response from CGC... any other options you guys are aware of?

Brad

EMAIL RESPONSE:
Good morning Brad,

Thank you for reaching out to CGC Trading Cards. It looks like you have a very interesting collectible on your hands. Unfortunately, we would not be able to accept or grade this currently. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Crystal Matthews
Customer Service
Certified Collectibles Group
p. 941-360-3990 | f. 941-360-2553
collectiblesgroup.com

[prestigecollectibles]

I've been wanting to add this historical book to my collection for years so I was thrilled to get this copy. I don't believe it is listed above.

Regards,
Robert Klevens

[NiceDocter]

Last paragraph first page…. “ Picking up small wants at good high rates is a loss of money as a rule. I get one occasionally and try to take it if I can get it right but most owners want about 10 times the real value.” Things haven’t really changed that much LOL 😂