Lee Smith & Harold Baines??

[gregr2]

Gotta agree with the watering down comment. Doesn’t seem like either of these guys made that significant of a contribution and/or had a real HOF career. High level contributors but not HOF.


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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by gregr2

Gotta agree with the watering down comment. Doesn’t seem like either of these guys made that significant of a contribution and/or had a real HOF career. High level contributors but not HOF.


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If they are in the HOF, Roger Maris should be in the HOF......just saying.

[Tony Gordon]

From the perspective of a White Sox fan in Chicago, I absolutely love the choice of Harold Baines for the Hall. For a team that has been around since 1901, the White Sox have had a long history of lousy outfielders. Baines is actually one of the best outfielders in the history of the team -- we're talking over 100 years! I've had to suffer through the likes of Wayne Nordhagen and Dan Pasqua. The Sox have nothing for 2019. Baines election to the Hall is all Sox fans have to look forward to in 2019. Stop hating on Harold. There are a lot of folks in these parts that love the man.

[keithsky]

I just could never figure out the obsession with Mariano Rivera. The guys who's he's pitching to have played nine innings out in the 90 plus degree heat. He comes in for a half inning all refreshed from sitting around a whole game not in the heat pitching to guys who are tired playing a whole game and all of a sudden he's an elite pitcher. Give me a break.

[packs]

Originally Posted by keithsky

I just could never figure out the obsession with Mariano Rivera. The guys who's he's pitching to have played nine innings out in the 90 plus degree heat. He comes in for a half inning all refreshed from sitting around a whole game not in the heat pitching to guys who are tired playing a whole game and all of a sudden he's an elite pitcher. Give me a break.

Maybe you should take a look at his numbers, pal. I watched him play every day. The game was essentially over as soon as he entered it. Even more so in the post season. Inning per inning he is probably the greatest pitcher of all time. I can not think of a single name I'd rather hear coming into any game in any era on any planet other than Mariano Rivera.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by packs

Maybe you should take a look at his numbers, pal. I watched him play every day. The game was essentially over as soon as he entered it. Even more so in the post season. Inning per inning he is probably the greatest pitcher of all time. I can not think of a single name I'd rather hear coming into any game in any era on any planet other than Mariano Rivera.

+1 from a Red Sox fan

[commishbob]

IMO Rivera is a no-brainer HoF inductee and this comes from a guy who is no fan of the Yankees. He was just ridiculously effective as a closer. When you are in the conversation re:the best ever at your position you have to be in the Hall.

I also this Lee Smith has a sold case. Baines, not so much. Not while Hodges, Allen, McGriff, & Mattingly are on the outside looking in.

Hall of Fame debates are always interesting to me. As long as they remain civil.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by keithsky

I just could never figure out the obsession with Mariano Rivera. The guys who's he's pitching to have played nine innings out in the 90 plus degree heat. He comes in for a half inning all refreshed from sitting around a whole game not in the heat pitching to guys who are tired playing a whole game and all of a sudden he's an elite pitcher. Give me a break.

I am hoping this was tongue in cheek?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by keithsky

I just could never figure out the obsession with Mariano Rivera. The guys who's he's pitching to have played nine innings out in the 90 plus degree heat. He comes in for a half inning all refreshed from sitting around a whole game not in the heat pitching to guys who are tired playing a whole game and all of a sudden he's an elite pitcher. Give me a break.

I hate the Yankees, but really? Compare him to his contemporaries who were pitching in the same "easy" conditions you posit. Hoffman is the only one in his neighborhood, and he's on the outskirts.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I hate the Yankees, but really? Compare him to his contemporaries who were pitching in the same "easy" conditions you posit. Hoffman is the only one in his neighborhood, and he's on the outskirts.

Wagner is in that neighborhood and was miles better than Hoffman. In fact, he had a better WHIP than Rivera.

If we're putting in a reliever behind Rivera, start with Wagner, not Lee Smith.

[rhettyeakley]

Neither are the worst selections, they are both “lower tier” in relation to others in the Hall of Fame but I don’t have a major problem with either of them. I feel that Smith compares rather favorably to Bruce Sutter and Baines was a steady performer that made a lot of All-Star teams so I’m not sure why all the hate.

I am as guilty as anyone at overusing WAR, it is a fun stat to throw around but it is a bit arbitrary. People with fairly mediocre numbers can emerge with WAR numbers that are off the charts while others get absolutely killed. Keep in mind Doc Cramer who had some traction for the HOF in the 1970’s has a career WAR of 8.5 according to Baseball-Reference despite over 2,700 hits and a .296 career average (this seems almost impossible to be that low) while Rick Reuschel has a career WAR of 69.7 despite a near .500 career W-L record (214-191) and only ever really led the league in losses and hits allowed.