Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[T206Collector]

The Flick comes from a Steiner Auction earlier this year. These four were part of that collection.

[Pat R]

Here's the double signed Conroy Fielding sold on ebay on August 2 2015.

Conroy Fielding.jpg

Conroy Fielding Back.jpg

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the double signed Conroy Fielding sold on ebay on August 2 2015.

Attachment 335794

Attachment 335795

LOL "double signed." Pretty ambitious, I must say.

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The Flick comes from a Steiner Auction earlier this year. These four were part of that collection.

Yes, you are correct but don't know the history before that...

[theshleps]

anyone on my other Flick? cant seem to get it upright, sorry
Flick 1909 T-206 Piedmont front.jpg

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by theshleps

anyone on my other Flick? cant seem to get it upright, sorry
Attachment 335800

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time. The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower left side by his hand are identical. So are the corners of the card. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

I was the underbidder on that one. I’ve never been so happy to be outbid.

[swarmee]

I wonder if this is enough proof and $$ to get a District Attorney interested.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by theshleps

anyone on my other Flick? cant seem to get it upright, sorry
Attachment 335800

That card has been signed for a long time. It sold on eBay way back in 2008 with a JSA sticker on the back. It's probably good, since it's so old.

Link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...cco-card-jsa-1

[Cmount76]

I just found this currently for sale on eBay. I was unable to find the potential "original" card, but I am also not as savvy as some. Much about that auto doesn't look right to me.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by theshleps

anyone on my other Flick? cant seem to get it upright, sorry
Attachment 335800

It’s from the Great Pittsburgh Find of 2007. It is in pre-eBay Group 5 on my website in the article I wrote about that Find. It is good.

[yanks12025]

So one of the sellers who has sold several of the cards is a member here and the other guy is a big ebay seller.. Has any of these people replied to messages willing to offer help?

[scottglevy]

Great work.

Sadly this sort of thing makes me wanna pack up my hobby bags and never return

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I wonder if this is enough proof and $$ to get a District Attorney interested.

Well, the first step would be to file a police report for theft by deception, listing an unknown suspect and try to get a detective interested in hitting eBay and or the AH with a grand jury subpoena for the ID of the buyer of the cards off eBay and the consignors to the auction house. And provide the screen shots of the before and after of the cards along with the report.

[Fred]

There are a few more Marquard signed (authenticated) T206 cards on fleabay:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T20...frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rube-Marqua...frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T...frcectupt=true


Also (2) Doyles and a Carrigan

[swarmee]

So here are the cert numbers so far:
SGC 1377205-001: Rucker
SGC 1377205-002: Parent $2,700 REA (also JSA) Post #1
SGC 1377205-003: Sullivan $6,600 REA (also JSA) Post #8
SGC 1377205-004: Conroy
SGC 1378023-001: Flick Post #109
SGC 1378023-002: Rhoades
SGC 1378023-003: Livingstone $1,209 Hunt Post #59
SGC 1378023-004: Zimmermann Post #120
SGC 4002213-001: Cicotte Hunt $11,000 Post #125

PSA 41975322: Baker $24,000 REA (Previously JSA) Post #100

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

So here are the cert numbers so far:
SGC 1377205-001: Rucker
SGC 1377205-002: Parent $2,700 REA (also JSA) Post #1
SGC 1377205-003: Sullivan $6,600 REA (also JSA) Post #8
SGC 1377205-004: Conroy
SGC 1378023-001: Flick Post #109
SGC 1378023-002: Rhoades
SGC 1378023-003: Livingstone $1,209 Hunt Post #59
SGC 1378023-004: Zimmermann Post #120
SGC 4002213-001: Cicotte Hunt $11,000 Post #125

PSA 41975322: Baker $24,000 REA (Previously JSA) Post #100

On the SGCs you have to use the AU cert number to look them up on the SGC website, not the cert numbers for the cards as listed above.

[Exhibitman]

Just wanted to chime in and express my sympathy for those affected by this mess. If there's anyone who got one of these from a So.Cali seller and wants a threatening lawyer letter from a local lawyer, LMK and it will be gratis. I can't sue 'em for free but I can try to make them shit their pants for free. We have a pretty strict autograph law here that covers all CA based sellers and has been in effect for a few years. Might provide you with some recourse.

On an entirely separate note, one of the posts above asked whether collectors of other forms of prewar signed cards have noticed anything. Speaking as an Exhibit collector, the answer is "yes". There have been more signed Cobb, Ruth and Gehrig pieces in the last couple of years than I ever recall seeing before. Especially 48 HOF Cobb and mid-20s Ruth and Gehrig. Come to think of it, i don't think I ever saw a Ruth or Gehrig single signed piece earlier than a few years ago.

[ATP]

Originally Posted by swarmee

So here are the cert numbers so far:
SGC 1377205-001: Rucker
SGC 1377205-002: Parent $2,700 REA (also JSA) Post #1
SGC 1377205-003: Sullivan $6,600 REA (also JSA) Post #8
SGC 1377205-004: Conroy
SGC 1378023-001: Flick Post #109
SGC 1378023-002: Rhoades
SGC 1378023-003: Livingstone $1,209 Hunt Post #59
SGC 1378023-004: Zimmermann Post #120
SGC 4002213-001: Cicotte Hunt $11,000 Post #125

PSA 41975322: Baker $24,000 REA (Previously JSA) Post #100

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but the following four cert numbers after that Baker one are for signed T206 cards of:

Sam Crawford
Sam Crawford
Elmer Flick
Rube Marquard

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

On the SGCs you have to use the AU cert number to look them up on the SGC website, not the cert numbers for the cards as listed above.

Yeah, but the two prefix numbers showed they were all submitted by the same guy at the same time. And if you're an authenticator and you get four or more signed T206s in the same submission, are you more or less likely to pass them all?

[T206Collector]

Is anybody else having as much fun as I am!?

I have to say the response of this community has made the kick in the teeth a lot easier to manage. So, thanks everybody for that!

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ATP

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but the following four cert numbers after that Baker one are for signed T206 cards of:

Sam Crawford
Sam Crawford
Elmer Flick
Rube Marquard

Right, but the PSA submission was done after the fact by the boardmember, so those are probably all not done by the forger.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Jasonxmay

Wow. That one was mine. I bought it through REA in 2015. It had JSA authentication at the time, and I subsequently had PSA authenticate it.

Re: PSA cert and following numbers, here was the submitter for that group.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

This was in the Heritage Dec 2016 Auction. How the hell was this authenticated? Forgery or not, this doesn't look anything like Marquard's signature. Not even his supposed wife's signature.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/s...umbnail-071515

Awful signature....

[t206kid]

A buddy of mine on Facebook did some great detective work on this one. I bought this very recently from T206collector. Despite probably having one of his worst days in awhile, he is a total stand-up guy and has already refunded me.

Card originally sold here in July:http://auction.aacsautographs.com/it...QFSUPRZEaFHwKA

Then sold to T206collector here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARRY-DOYLE...-/263825275600

[asoriano]

I remember looking at a T206 Livingstone American Beauty 350 that was signed on the reverse this past summer at the National.

It's a shot in the dark, but did anyone happen to grab a picture of it by chance?

[ullmandds]

Hmmm...the doctor/Forger attempted to change the appearance of the card by adding creases/damage before forging the autograph...good thing these cards are like fingerprints.

Originally Posted by t206kid

A buddy of mine on Facebook did some great detective work on this one. I bought this very recently from T206collector. Despite probably having one of his worst days in awhile, he is a total stand-up guy and has already refunded me.

Card originally sold here in July:http://auction.aacsautographs.com/it...QFSUPRZEaFHwKA

Then sold to T206collector here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARRY-DOYLE...-/263825275600

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by t206kid

A buddy of mine on Facebook did some great detective work on this one. I bought this very recently from T206collector. Despite probably having one of his worst days in awhile, he is a total stand-up guy and has already refunded me.

Card originally sold here in July:http://auction.aacsautographs.com/it...QFSUPRZEaFHwKA

Then sold to T206collector here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARRY-DOYLE...-/263825275600

They put quite a bit of extra wear on that one. Holy smokes.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time. The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower right side by his hand are identical. There is even an identical crease on the back in the sweet caporal border in the lower right side. The corners of the card are identical. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1817520994

Hunt Auctions link:
https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=222&lot_qual=

I'm now 100% convinced that this is the Cicotte card. I just noticed that there is also a crease in the lower left side of the card too that matches the auto version. And since we now have several examples where the forger added his own scuffs and creases, this card has to be the one.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

I'm now 100% convinced that this is the Cicotte card. I just noticed that there is also a crease in the lower left side of the card too that matches the auto version. And since we now have several examples where the forger added his own scuffs and creases, this card has to be the one.

Strange that this forger had the foresight to add extra wear in order to disguise the card, yet at the same time, be so reckless in signing other cards with easily identifiable surface features.

Possible 2nd, unrelated forger?

[Jasonxmay]

I submitted the Baker along with around 30 of my most valuable cards at the Chicago Sun Times show. The other t206s that were mentioned earlier were part of that submission.

Originally Posted by swarmee

Re: PSA cert and following numbers, here was the submitter for that group.

[sycks22]

I hope there's a Wagner auto out there sometime in the near future.

[t206kid]

.

[22eckstein]

Originally Posted by t206kid

A buddy of mine on Facebook did some great detective work on this one. I bought this very recently from T206collector. Despite probably having one of his worst days in awhile, he is a total stand-up guy and has already refunded me.

Card originally sold here in July:http://auction.aacsautographs.com/it...QFSUPRZEaFHwKA

Then sold to T206collector here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARRY-DOYLE...-/263825275600

Wow this is getting crazy!

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I hope there's a Wagner auto out there sometime in the near future.

Who knows - you might get lucky and find one personalized "To Pete". The least you can do is ask.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Jasonxmay

I submitted the Baker along with around 30 of my most valuable cards at the Chicago Sun Times show. The other t206s that were mentioned earlier were part of that submission.

I know; I was sticking up for you. I wanted to make it clear that your submission should not be considered from the forger.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by t206kid

.

Back and to the left.

Back and to the left.

[Jasonxmay]

I appreciate it. That’s how I interpreted your post. I just wanted to provide that additional information for anyone who was interested.

Originally Posted by swarmee

I know; I was sticking up for you. I wanted to make it clear that your submission should not be considered from the forger.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Who knows - you might get lucky and find one personalized "To Pete". The least you can do is ask.

Just for you, Pete.

[eliotdeutsch]

I’m not involved in T206 autos and am still pretty new to the forum. But it’s pretty clear that these third party graders do absolutely no real forensic analysis about these signed cards if board members can identify forgeries within hours.

In all seriousness, some of the guys here who are most adept at this should start their own grading service. After reading this great work, I do think that would restore confidence.

I’m getting nervous about my modern autos...

[irv]

Originally Posted by Fred

There are a few more Marquard signed (authenticated) T206 cards on fleabay:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T20...frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rube-Marqua...frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T...frcectupt=true


Also (2) Doyles and a Carrigan

All 3 of those sigs look completely different from one another yet all 3 were certified as authentic?

This was a great, although very sad, read.

Just glad this site continues to prove over and over again, that if a person wants to know something, this is the site for it.

Great detective work everyone!

[lowpopper]

As soon as somebody offers up a 5 or 10K cash reward, somebody will snitch.
Its just a matter of time.

In the mean time. I got my popcorn and my goobers. I love this movie

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Just for you, Pete.

I heard Spence took a look at this a few minutes ago and said it looks good.

Please forward him $250.

[rommesc]

Unfortunately this one from the latest Hunt Auction also belongs on the list.

before: sold unsigned on eBay by SG713 Nov 20, 2016 for $22.92, Cardtarget Link http://www.cardtarget.com/cards/160935

after:https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...162&lot_num=10

[sycks22]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Just for you, Pete.

Looks legit, PSA already slabbed it. I'll take it

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by rommesc

Unfortunately this one from the latest Hunt Auction also belongs on the list.

before: sold unsigned on eBay by SG713 Nov 20, 2016 for $22.92, Cardtarget Link http://www.cardtarget.com/cards/160935

after:https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...162&lot_num=10

Now this one had a few people scratching their heads even before the big reveal. That was a tough signature to see, and not sure what formed the basis for the signature in any event. Doesn’t look like the other ones I have seen.

[T206Collector]

Nice piece by Rich Mueller at SCD covering this evolving nightmare.... er, story. Thanks Rich! I appreciate your broadening the audience for this fraud.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ed-t206-story/

[atx840]

Nice Chris, just found that one as well. So far I cant find a non signed version of yours Paul.

Unfortunately they are even faking back damage now.

https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...162&lot_num=10

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Nice piece by Rich Mueller at SCD covering this evolving nightmare.... er, story. Thanks Rich! I appreciate your broadening the audience for this fraud.



https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ed-t206-story/

Rich does a great wrap and analysis of the events to date, well done!


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[Cliff Bowman]

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