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#1
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Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)
Saw this card at REA and thought it looked too drawn and too close to the known Parent exemplars. Figured I wouldn't have to look through too many listings on Worthpoint so I gave it a shot.
Sure enough... First sold on eBay on July 28, 2015 as a PSA 2.5. Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ent-1736998090. Then sold at REA in their 2016 Spring auction (with JSA cert) for $2,700. Link here: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...r-fred-parent/. [Look through posts below for the rest.] Post #1: Fred Parent Post #8: Billy Sullivan Post #23: Bob Rhoades (thanks to The Nasty Nati) Post #59: Paddy Livingston (thanks to T206Collector) Post #100: Frank "Homerun" Baker (thanks to Pat_R) Post #109: Elmer Flick (thanks to bn2cardz) Post #128: Heinie Zimmerman (thanks to Thromdog) Post #152: Wid Conroy (thanks to Pat _R) Post #175: Larry Doyle (thanks to t206kid) Post #194: Jap Barbeau (thanks to rommesc) Post #205: Red Murray (thanks to atx840) Post #366: Eddie Cicotte (thanks to The Nasty Nati) Post #374: Nap Rucker Post #446: Jesse Tannehill (thanks to Pat_R) Other Thread: Rube Marquard Total: 15 Last edited by SetBuilder; 11-30-2018 at 01:58 PM. Reason: added new discoveries... |
#2
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Large images for reference:
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#3
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Setting aside the fact he died in 1972, what's to say that he didn't sign it in 2016?
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#4
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Manny you're doing amazing work here. That one came not only with an SGC authentication, but a full JSA LOA as well!
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
#5
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Manny, you are a total rockstar! I don’t collect autographs, but as an avid card collector and active hobby participant, I very much appreciate your efforts on pointing out these forgeries; at the least, my eyes are much more wide open now.
Ryan Hotchkiss |
#6
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Quote:
I collect primarily cards but have bid on some nice autographed items from time-to-time and never won. Right now, I am thanking my lucky stars I lost! |
#7
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As I asked in the other post, has anyone gone to REA to ask who consigned the card? It should be possible to trace back and find the forger, especially when done in conjunction with the Marquard card.
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#8
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Fake T206 Signed Billy Sullivan
Another one...this one's a biggie at $6,600.
Sold on eBay as an SGC 30 on July 8, 2015. Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...lly-1734408624. Then sold at the REA 2016 Spring auction. Link here: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...illy-sullivan/. |
#9
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Large images for reference:
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#10
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Oh wow, this is bad!
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#11
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Fantastic work Manny! Now if we could only get someone to wake up
and start investigating and prosecute the people responsible for crimes like this. |
#12
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I'm almost scared to keep looking. I may have to go into witness protection if I find another one.
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#13
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Ditto. Autos are too risky.
__________________
http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids |
#14
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Holy crap, the plot thickens....
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. |
#15
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I'm starting to wonder if we can trace a majority of the existing signed T206s to their unsigned version through a deep Worthpoint search. This is pretty alarming.
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http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids |
#16
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Quote:
Was JSA the authenticator on all of the T206 fake signature cards?
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fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. |
#17
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Great work! Though this is really sad.
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Numerous successful transactions on Net54, just ask for references. https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/gregr2 |
#18
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This is not good. This makes my heart and head hurt. I don’t have any prewar autos that aren’t football but this makes me not want to purchase anything until this crap gets sorted out.
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I am not tech savvy... Last edited by Laxcat; 11-27-2018 at 01:44 PM. |
#19
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Now you've got one of my newest ones, and an expensive one to boot!
Guess I'll be calling REA and SGC now... Edited to add that it is, indeed, really sad. Sullivan is the most I've ever paid for a signed T206 card. And I have never questioned its authenticity. Plus, it was authenticated by SGC and JSA, and in the most reputable auction house in our hobby.
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 Last edited by T206Collector; 11-27-2018 at 01:51 PM. |
#20
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Both the Parent card and the Sullivan card were sold to an eBay masked ID of "a**a". So same buyer for both off of eBay.
The Marquard card had a masked ID of "b**o" so a different buyer, but it was also in 2018 whereas the others were in 2015, so easily could be the same person with a different eBay ID. (Though the feedback screenshot via eBay shows this person as "f**f", they appear on VCP as "b**o". Not sure why there is a difference.) Last edited by scooter729; 11-27-2018 at 01:50 PM. |
#21
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Great detective work!
It's just the tip of the iceberg. Those T206, Goudey, etc vintage autograph collections are loaded with fakes. And if they are not, everyone will think so anyway.
Too much money and greed. |
#22
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Quote:
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/albums |
#23
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I found another.
Here's the worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1737649372 And a better picture of the auto (t206collector I hope it's okay I reference your photo): http://www.signedt206.com/other-peop...ktbffyldzycqzp The creasing is identical. There is a tobacco mark that was removed on his crotch but the missing cardboard is in the same location. I'm sure a ton more fakes are about to be unsurfaced. This took me 2 minutes to find.
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http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids Last edited by The Nasty Nati; 11-27-2018 at 02:12 PM. |
#24
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Wow.. this is about to get bad, already 4 examples in not a long time of looking.. Good work by you guys
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#25
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Might move on to Goudey and Playball.
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#26
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I know theres been talk before that a bunch of the Ruth signed Goudeys were fakes.
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#27
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Quote:
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#28
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Trying to keep track of them all, the Rhoades was in Hunt Auctions, in February 2016. This one got away from me on the auction block...
https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...9&lot_num=1009
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
#29
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Quote:
The last sale of the Parent I found was August 22 2015 on ebay. There were two other cards purchased by the same buyer. Parent Sale.jpg Here's the scans from that sale Parent.jpg Parent Back.jpg |
#30
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I have never been interested in autographs for this reason. Way too easy for some people to copy a signature. I’m sure there are tons of fakes out there. Why trust an “experts” opinion.
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TOP T206 WANTS *DRUM *CHarlie Rhodes errors & oddities Also would like to add a few AMERICAN BEAUTIES 350 frame,no frame and/or 460 |
#31
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Quote:
Same positioning and spacing of the letters. Last edited by SetBuilder; 11-27-2018 at 04:35 PM. |
#32
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I want to thank Manny, Patrick, Brock and anyone else helping uncover this forger.
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#33
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Painful, but vital to the health of the hobby.
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Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
#34
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this totally
sucks!!
paul I am feeling for you I have a Snodgrass double signed front and back......i'll look for the scan... |
#35
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Aside from disgust at the forger, I am thinking this brings into question most any autograph that has ever been authenticated. The entire system...
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Last edited by vintagebaseballcardguy; 11-27-2018 at 05:17 PM. |
#36
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I'm guessing this goes beyond T-206 and into other sets as well. I've noticed a tremendous increase in the number of autographed cards being auctioned lately. This really doesn't look good.
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#37
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While the evidence so far is damning, we shouldn't necessarily over-react either. There are lots more cards hitting the market than ever before because a generation of collectors is dying off, or selling their collection because their heirs aren't interested. I assume some of the increase in autographs is attributable to the same cause.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#38
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Quote:
Lmk
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#39
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Never been interested much in the autographed card scene. So, no. This is about as disturbing as anything I have seen in the hobby. If I don't see it signed in front of me or have someone I know and supremely trust, I can't trust it is a legit auto. This is part of the reason I have largely avoided autograph collecting. I feel badly for those victimized.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Last edited by vintagebaseballcardguy; 11-27-2018 at 06:12 PM. |
#40
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Holy smokes...someone is turning $40 cards into $5000+ cards. Good work Manny, Patrick and Brock. Should be interesting to find out who consigned these.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#41
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Don't want to distract from this great effort here. Just wanted to mention that having worthpoint and other sites that cache sales has been a major help in tracking down several faked T206 errors. From my small dealings with this, PSA is able to go to eBay and track down the buyers info. Just track everything you have found, dates and screenshot them.
Fake Cobb ghost http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=170638 Fake Magie errors. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...e+Magie&page=1 Keep it up guys!
__________________
T206 gallery |
#42
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Fake Autographs
Quote:
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#43
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this is
all very disturbing
holy crap! chris! great to see you posting again |
#44
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Worth remembering what the authenticator said about Mastro
The authenticator in question in my view tossed his reputation out the window with this letter to the court on behalf of -- after Mastro had been convicted.
And think about it . . . How would anyone know if a purported autograph of an obscure ballplayer from 100+ years ago was real, even in the absence of forensic evidence that it was fake? Last edited by Leon; 11-29-2018 at 07:24 AM. |
#45
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Following up . . .
Just realized I should've posted that last post to the other thread about the fake autograph that SGC rejected. I'll post it there now.
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#46
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Nice work on this gentlemen. This seems to be getting legs. This just popped up in my twitter feed.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ies-uncovered/ |
#48
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Sal Bando says hello.
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#49
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Thank you for posting this, truly appreciate it. I had it out with an authenticator at SGC at the Shriner's Show on November 3rd on a related topic.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=shriners+show |
#50
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As the owner of 165 different signed, authenticated, 1933 Goudey cards, this is disturbing to say the least. I appreciate the efforts of everyone here. Hopefully this forger(s) will be uncovered sooner, rather than later.
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