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Mount Rushmore of Industry Icons
I write a blog for a local card shop, and in conjunction with the owner (who has considerable pull in the industry), we are developing the Mount Rushmore of Sports Card Industry Icons. (Unless otherwise told it's allowed by Leon, I won't mention the shop or the blog so as to not seem like I am advertising.) We are endeavoring to find the 4 most influential people on the sports card industry.
Criteria: - Impact on Sports Card Collecting - Long-term importance to the industry - An innovator within the industry - Brings favorable attention to the industry - Favorable view from the industry - Personal Passion towards the industry - Did they expand the market - Industry Icon Our research thus far has uncovered a wide range of nominees: - Sy Berger - Jim Beckett - Mickey Mantle - David Hall - Pierre Omidyar - Richard McWilliam - Jefferson Burdick - Mike Berkus - Honus Wagner - Mr Mint - Michael Jordan - Don West - Wayne Gretzky - Larry Fritsch - Bill Mastro I'm asking for some more nominees here as Net54 is far and away the most knowledgeable group of people in the sports card world and I am hoping to uncover some more deserving nominees. For example, I wouldn't have given Gretzky a shot, until the argument was made that his greatest contribution was actually his purchase of the Wagner, which highlighted the value of vintage cards on a world stage and legitimized third party grading (although we all know how that one ended). Are there others you think are deserving of this honor? After compiling a list of nominees, we will whittle them down to a final list for voting. Thanks in advance! |
#2
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Kit Young
Kit Young
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#3
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Never mind.
Last edited by Orioles1954; 11-20-2018 at 07:51 AM. |
#4
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Interesting. My first thought, given what I understand to be what you're asking, is that players have no place on the list.
I think Burdick and Mr. Mint are slam dunks. After that it gets hard. I think Beckett, Berger, and Fritsch are solid options, and I think Enos Goudey at least deserves a mention, if not consideration. The Mastro argument will be a good one, but one I steer clear of.
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Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18 Last edited by conor912; 11-20-2018 at 09:38 AM. |
#5
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Gotta have the industry "B's" on there...Burdick for his cataloging, Berger for his innovation of products and Beckett for making collecting a popular hobby to the masses.
The 4th one is a little tougher...am torn between Mantle who was such a hero to so many and a hobby ambassador to early card shows drawing people in to rediscover their youth...and Fritsch who made those cards of our youth readily available by mail via his catalogs long before card shows were popular....toss a coin or have 5 on the mountain. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#6
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Pioneer Buck Barker.
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#7
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Just to piss people off I will nominate Brett H. from PWCC.
Sells how many tens upon tens of thousands of cards a year. Has tried to create financial metrics for the collecting industry. Personally not a huge fan but hard to deny the impact PWCC has had. |
#9
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Looks like the criteria is very skewed towards people who did stuff more recently. That's a bit limiting.
To me … The certain ones - Sy Berger - Jim Beckett - Jefferson Burdick And, Enos Goudey - Most of the 30's sets were from Boston area gum companies, and nearly all of those had some connection to Goudey. Lionel Carter The maybes - David Hall - Richard McWilliam - Mike Berkus - Larry Fritsch And Renata Galasso Michael Aronstein Michael Schechter Andrew Peck Plus maybe a few hundred other people...….. I don't think athletes belong. Yes, they're important because the hobby is mostly about promotional items they're on, but few had any real involvement besides posing for a photo. And the no list - Pierre Omidyar - Mr Mint - Don West They were all involved, although Omidyar probably didn't plan on being involved - just ended up in a decent place. But It's debatable whether their influence was positive or not. And the "you must be kidding" list - Bill Mastro |
#10
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I'd add Fritsch, Michael Aronstein and Renata Galasso to the list on nominees. I think all merit consideration.
Alan Rosen treated me like dirt in my limited dealings with him. But he was influential.
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People are crazy and times are strange, I used to care but things have changed -Dylan |
#11
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1) Bob Lemke - primary contributor to the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards; custom baseball cards, hobby legend
2) Jefferson Burdick - cataloguer possibly also Lew Lipset (although there are mixed feelings about his demeanor) and Michael Aronstein (aka TCMA) and Larry Fritsch And I agree, no athletes should make the list, despite their importance.
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... http://imageevent.com/derekgranger HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 250/346 (72.3%) 1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%) 1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 180/180 (100%) Last edited by h2oya311; 11-20-2018 at 08:27 AM. |
#13
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Lionel Carter....
is a slam dunk. Players have no business on this "mountain".
Mr. Carter is an icon. Peace, Mike |
#14
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Quote:
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T201 (50/50) T205 (208/208) T206 (520/520) T207 (200/200) E90-1 (120/121) E90-3 (20/20) E91A/B/C (99/99) C59-61 (149/248) N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (96/100) N162 Goodwin Champions (26/50) N184 Kimball Champions (29/50) 1901-02 Ogden Tabs (1,327/1,560) Complete: E47, E49, E50, E75, E76, E229, K4, N88, N91, R136, T29, T30, T38, T51, T53, T68, T73, T77, T118, T218, T220, T225, W512, W513, W542, W552, W565, Dozens of smaller uncategorized sets www.prewarcollector.com |
#15
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Some wonderful nominations we hadn't gotten yet, and some that we'd received previously but will give more credence to given their support here. Please keep them coming!
If Leon allows, when we finalize nominations, I will post a link to the poll for voting. |
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Barry Halper?
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Quote:
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People are crazy and times are strange, I used to care but things have changed -Dylan |
#18
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Frank Nagy should be in consideration as well.
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#19
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Quote:
Rich
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Look for our show listings in the Net 54 Calendar section |
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Quote:
It reminds me of, about 40 yrs ago, when I volunteered at the Houston Zoo reptile department. It was a great department back then (don't know anything about today). One main reason it was great is that the curator of the museum was a herpetologist. Go figure. To me, The first 3 hobbyists (already mentioned) as shoe ins are Burdick, Berger and Beckett. And I would vote to make it the Mt. Rushmore of the top 5. (if there were a vote.) That way more can be on it. ps...I like Conor's idea right above here too.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 11-20-2018 at 09:58 AM. |
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I like a HOF idea but, if you could, please wait until after January 7th so as to not take the wind out of the sails of this project!
I agree that the 3 B's are on my list. The other person involved is on the fence about Burdick (we have had many a fight about this) but Berger and Beckett seem to be absolute certainties. I do think Burdick will pull it out, and then the 4th spot is anyone's guess. We'll see! The plan is to accept nominations through December 3rd. Next Monday there will be a blog post introducing the idea formally to the masses. On December 3rd we will have a culled list of nominees (knowing that, even though there are many nominees, not everyone can make the final list). That final list will be made into a poll with voting open for 4 weeks and closing on December 31st. On January 7th the Mount Rushmore will be formally announced. Per Leon's blessing above I will post links when applicable in order to direct folks to the voting. During the voting I also plan on running several blog posts featuring debate and discussion, so if you feel passionately for (or against) a certain nominee, feel free to elaborate, and I will contact you for permission to include it in a post. Thanks everyone -- keep 'em coming! |
#23
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Jacob Warren Bowman
Sy Berger Jefferson Burdick James Beckett
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42 Collection: Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey and the People Who Shaped the Story https://www.flickr.com/photos/158992...57668696860149 Last edited by Dewey; 11-20-2018 at 10:42 AM. |
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Ted Z for T206 (and probably lots of other stuff). Love reading his posts.
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fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. |
#25
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Burdick
Berger Lemke Lifson |
#26
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Some of the names on the original list are an abomination
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#27
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Nice to see that what my dad, Mike Aronstein was able to achieve during his time in the hobby still resonates. Thank you to the guys who have already mentioned his name here in this thread.
You can listen to Keith Olbermann speak fondly of my dad during his speech at the inaugural meeting of the SABR Baseball Card Committee at the link below. Some stories about a quarter of the way through, then at the end during the Q&A: https://sabr.app.box.com/s/kxgpod56h...b882u4npvipmao
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Visit TCMA Ltd. on Facebook! Last edited by TCMA; 11-20-2018 at 11:59 AM. |
#28
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Jefferson Burdick
Lew Lipset Wharton Tigre Buck Barker Beckett and the auctioneers don’t belong on the same level as these people. |
#29
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Bob Lemke.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#30
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I think there should be a greater emphasis on hobby pioneers like Burdick and Barker, who were involved purely for the knowledge and the love of collecting, than for some of the people who got into the business solely to make money. Maybe the latter group made some important contributions to the industry, but they don't seem Rushmore-worthy to me.
Last edited by barrysloate; 11-20-2018 at 12:14 PM. |
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If he hasn't been mentioned, David Hall. Like him or hate him, PSA has revolutionized collecting for a large percentage of the hobby. PS I see he was listed, so I agree with that choice.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-20-2018 at 12:21 PM. |
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While I don't think that he belongs on that list, Dmitri Young is a player-collector who does tick a lot of the boxes.
https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...league-players https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...gs-huge-money/
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Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132359235@N05/sets/ Ebay listings: https://www.ebay.com/sch/harrydoyle/...p2047675.l2562 |
#33
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Lionel Carter for sure.
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http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids |
#34
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My two cents...
Gloria Rothstein
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#35
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I think I ordered sets in the 1950's from a mail order dealer called : Woody Gelman ???
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Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline). |
#36
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Quote:
Mickey Mantle who was a jerk to collectors at card shows for years? No way. I would put him with Mastro and Mr. Mint in the group the have no business on a Mount Rushmore of the hobby. Last edited by rats60; 11-20-2018 at 12:52 PM. |
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How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?
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His article on Dan Desmond and card alteration was priceless and profoundly disturbing.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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could only name two
as I'm pretty particular about whose image I would put on a rock that was interesting enough just as a rock.....
J Burdick E W Tigre |
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"Mt Rushmore"
Reading through all these posts here, what is certainly apparent to me is that we need more than "Mt Rushmore",
with respect to contenders which have enriched this hobby. I could think of at least a dozen (or more) worthy candidates, whose images should be sculptured on a mountain. This then begs the next question....which mountain ? I would recommend the "mile-high" mountain in northern Maine, Mt. Katahdin. It rises 5267 feet above sea level. It's tree line ends at approx. 3000 feet. The rest of this mountain is sheer rock. So, we can carve out a number of "hobby heroes" on it. TED Z T206 Reference . |
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While not contributing a name
I would agree that no players should be on the list.
There may be a demand for their cards because they were players, but there is also demand every year for that one weird card that gets out and causes a frenzy of people who think it will remain hot in five years. Can't see putting Billy "#>˘% Face" Ripkin on any list just because his card was hot at one time. If you can't do one, you shouldn't do any.
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Looking to assemble a complete T206 set with a stamp on the back from Howe McCormick, 500 W. Main St., Gainesville, Fla. Looking for the final 120. |
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Quote:
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#43
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John D. Wagner
Burdick and Carter for sure. And I would recommend considering John D. Wagner, a pioneer of baseball card collecting, as well as through the mail autograph-on-card (including T206s!) seeking:
Originally posted by Leon: "The John D Wagner Hobby Letters - 1930s on..." http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=207944
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Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 Last edited by T206Collector; 11-20-2018 at 03:35 PM. |
#44
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Goodwin Goldfaden
Ted Koch was a person I learned a lot from and he said that he used to buy things from Goodie Goldfaden way back when. So as a person who used to sell by mail order, I guess he could be nominated.
David |
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Henry— I agree that those are the top two by far.
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#46
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Not Rushmore, but definitely HOF Dick Perez
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
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Hobby Publishing Icons
I've always admired the guys who published these hobby publications - John Stommen founder of SCD; Dan Dischley, The Trader Speaks and Frank and Vivian Barning, Baseball Hobby News -not to mention several others.
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Learned alot from:
I remember learning a lot about the hobby in the mid 90s from:
Barry Sloate- The East Coast Guru! Mark Macrae- The West Coast Guru! |
#49
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Well
Definitely agree - no athletes on the list and Burdick, Berger and Beckett are shoe ins - #4 is super tough - there have been so many great nominees mentioned here I don't know how to pick 1!
Last edited by hcv123; 11-20-2018 at 07:22 PM. |
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