BGS Turnaround Time: Up to One Year

[Santo10Fan]

I was just told by CS that turnaround time for BGS non-guaranteed is between nine months and one year. Did not check on BVGS.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes this was discussed on another thread, it's absurd.

[buymycards]

One year isn't too bad. They only have one part time grader and he is also required to do the janitorial work, so it takes a while to get the grading done, especially during the summer when he has to mow the lawn in front of Beckett's HQ.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by buymycards

One year isn't too bad. They only have one part time grader and he is also required to do the janitorial work, so it takes a while to get the grading done, especially during the summer when he has to mow the lawn in front of Beckett's HQ.

Don't worry, I was told he washes his hand in between jobs.

[Throttlesteer]

Beckett Goes Slow (BGS)

[bobbyw8469]

One year to grade cards????? They might as well close up shop.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

One year to grade cards????? They might as well close up shop.

They cancelled their appearance at last weekend's card show in Concord, CA the day before they were to arrive.

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

I was just told by CS that turnaround time for BGS non-guaranteed is between nine months and one year. Did not check on BVGS.

two reasons to send Cards to BGS
(A) never heard of PSA
(B) see answer A

[Marc Simmons]

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

I was just told by CS that turnaround time for BGS non-guaranteed is between nine months and one year. Did not check on BVGS.

It’s probably due to the volume of people submitting stupid stuff to be graded. One change I’d like to see, stop grading reprints. Seriously, what’s the point? Unless you’re trying to trick and deceive. Which should not be allowed.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Marc Simmons

It’s probably due to the volume of people submitting stupid stuff to be graded. One change I’d like to see, stop grading reprints. Seriously, what’s the point? Unless you’re trying to trick and deceive. Which should not be allowed.

Even newer cards. If it's not a 9.5 or 10, then there's really no point.

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...155093&page=23

Read the whole thread and it will feel like its unfolding.

[Dpeck100]

OMG I just read through that thread and it is shocking.

I always knew Beckett found itself in a tough spot once they lost so much market share to PSA and had their subscription business collapse in the early to mid 2000's but this is very serious.

Not only does is say they are tying submitters money up the entire time which is north of a year at this point, there is also no communication. There are definitely plenty of collectors who have and love BGS graded cards but this kind of reputational damage can really be an issue for any company. They can't afford to lose their hard core BGS fans at this point.


This is going to be very interesting to follow as the length of wait has been consistently growing so it doesn't necessarily have to stop at 12 months.


I am not in anyway privy or even suggesting BGS goes under right now but if they did what happens to your cards? Would they be easy to get back? Sounds scary.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

OMG I just read through that thread and it is shocking.

I always knew Beckett found itself in a tough spot once they lost so much market share to PSA and had their subscription business collapse in the early to mid 2000's but this is very serious.

Not only does is say they are tying submitters money up the entire time which is north of a year at this point, there is also no communication. There are definitely plenty of collectors who have and love BGS graded cards but this kind of reputational damage can really be an issue for any company. They can't afford to lose their hard core BGS fans at this point.


This is going to be very interesting to follow as the length of wait has been consistently growing so it doesn't necessarily have to stop at 12 months.


I am not in anyway privy or even suggesting BGS goes under right now but if they did what happens to your cards? Would they be easy to get back? Sounds scary.

One would think this must be having a drastic effect on new submissions so the problem should self-correct, if they survive that is

[Dpeck100]

Check out this thread. Yikes.


https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1231475

[swarmee]

Yeah, that seems like an isolated incident. That's why I didn't cross-post it. But I agree with the guys that said it's odd that someone would submit so many expensive 1/1 superfractor autos as bulk submission RCRs. If the cards are worth $500+ each, splurge for an actual slab and not a cardsaver with a sticker on top.

[Dpeck100]

I can't speak to the proper way to submit at the National for a quick turn around but I do think it is just additional evidence things are not going well from an operational standpoint with them.

I would be so pissed off if I sent in cards to a company and they charged me upfront and we are now past 12 months and they still have my cards.

If they were to go BK you would have very little chance of getting the grading fees back and I would honestly be petrified about getting the cards. To a lot of us that submit cards for grading many of them you can't easily replace and in some cases ever so it isn't just a monetary issue.

[swarmee]

True, the taking the funds for a year and "holding cards hostage" thing is crazy. Surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit yet. It's not like all these major submitters aren't either on here, blowout, or CU.
COMC stopped submitting to BGS months ago.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Have been tracking and buying some modern cards recently and was surprised at the premium BGS gets vs. PSA. In some cases it's 2x for a BGS 10 vs. a PSA 10. And if you have a BGS black label (which is all 4 sub grades with a 10) it's even more. It's my impression that BGS has a huge market share advantage over PSA in modern cards. If BGS implodes that would be really bad for modern and really bad for the health of the hobby in general.

btw for you vintage guys, I learned this terminology recently...(many of you might already know this but thought I would share in case you were like me with your head in the sand on all things shiny)

BGS 9.5 are called "Gems" and BGS 10's are "Dimes"
BGS grades on 4 sub grades for Centering, Corners, Edges and Surface
A minimum Gem is 3 9.5 sub grades and 1 9 sub.
Cards with "9" centers are worth the least and many shun them.
BGS 9.5 with 9.5 for all sub grades is called "A Quad or True Gem" and get a premium
BGS 9.5 with all 9.5 sub grades and either 1 or 2 10 sub grades is called "true gem plus or monster subs"
As you can imagine subs matter in particular on low pop and rare cards

[Peter_Spaeth]

BGS 9.5 is the equivalent of PSA 10; BGS 10 and Black Label are very rare and essentially gimmicks IMO. PSA 10s as far as I can tell substantially outsell even quad 9.5s on cards like Trout rookies and probably everything else. Look it up.

[Jobu]

On top of it all, this poor sap does all of this with only a single hand. I am starting to see why it takes so long.

Originally Posted by drcy

Don't worry, I was told he washes his hand in between jobs.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Check out this thread. Yikes.


https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1231475

There's mention of a "cleaner," which seems to be people sending cards to a person who uses microfiber and wax to clean cards before submitting (and also possibly gets paid something for the service?). Is that common? Seems a little strange to me, but I don't dabble in the high-end modern market.

[ramram]

Boy, the real pressure is actually on the Topps, Bowman, etc production line employees to put out perfect cards...or.....maybe not. Maybe they get a tiny bit sloppy with most of their products and only get “gem mint” with a limited number on purpose. Heck, maybe the quality control guy pockets a few of those for himself.

Rob M

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

BGS 9.5 is the equivalent of PSA 10; BGS 10 and Black Label are very rare and essentially gimmicks IMO. PSA 10s as far as I can tell substantially outsell even quad 9.5s on cards like Trout rookies and probably everything else. Look it up.

Exactly; probably 1% of cards submitted get a BGS 10, so if that's the reason you're submitting to them, you're buying lottery tickets. Most people who submit can't even tell the difference between a "true gem" and a pristine card, and BGS doesn't publish their distinctions. If there are millions of 50/50 centered cards nowadays, why aren't there more BGS 10 centering subgrades?
PSA is half the price and outsells them on the 10/9.5 for the vast majority of items.

And yes, some people pay others to clean their shiny modern cards for them, mostly taking off dust and fingerprints, since those can lead to lower grades on chrome cards.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

There's mention of a "cleaner," which seems to be people sending cards to a person who uses microfiber and wax to clean cards before submitting (and also possibly gets paid something for the service?). Is that common? Seems a little strange to me, but I don't dabble in the high-end modern market.

I have no clue. Sounds very possible. There seem to be a lot of tricks out there to boost a cards appearance.

[hcv123]

This thread sheds some light on the PSA backlog........

[orly57]

If they are backed-up for a year, I think it begs the question “how accurate can this grader be when he is flying through cards?” A guy trying to asses the difference between a surface subgrade 9.5 or 10 can not possibly be effective under these conditions. More evidence that this grade-worship is such a joke. People are paying obscene premiums for cards that were given a cursory review by some overworked graders working 15 hours straight, drinking Red Bull and coffee in some dungeon at the Beckett headquarters.

[Topnotchsy]

Whole thing is hard to understand. They have so much business that they are backed up for a year and therefore are struggling? If it’s a real issue, raise prices a little which will increase margins on each item in exchange for the small portion of market share that will be lost. BGS pretty much lens the modern market anyways...

[gregr2]

I would not give up my cards for a year. YOWZERS!!

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by gregr2

I would not give up my cards for a year. YOWZERS!!

+1

[glchen]

Wow, a year is incredible. I actually do send items to Beckett since they encapsulate some things that PSA and SGC do not such as larger premiums (e.g., notepads). I don't know if I want to wait a year for them to come back. Hopefully the backlog will go down soon. And I was thinking that the TPG's would eventually run out of things to grade since everything worth grading (and that made sense to grade, eg. not a $1 card) had pretty much already been graded already.

[Orioles1954]

I sent some modern cards to BGS last week before all of this went down. It was through their non guaranteed service. See you next summer guys!

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Yeah, that seems like an isolated incident. That's why I didn't cross-post it. But I agree with the guys that said it's odd that someone would submit so many expensive 1/1 superfractor autos as bulk submission RCRs. If the cards are worth $500+ each, splurge for an actual slab and not a cardsaver with a sticker on top.

What's an RCR?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

What's an RCR?

Raw card review. Instead of slabbing the card they put it in a card saver with a sticker over it. It costs ~10.00. They can do it at shows or card shops and not have to carry their equipment all over the country.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by rats60

Raw card review. Instead of slabbing the card they put it in a card saver with a sticker over it. It costs ~10.00. They can do it at shows or card shops and not have to carry their equipment all over the country.

Gotcha. Thanks...

[orly57]

Originally Posted by glchen

Wow, a year is incredible. I actually do send items to Beckett since they encapsulate some things that PSA and SGC do not such as larger premiums (e.g., notepads). I don't know if I want to wait a year for them to come back. Hopefully the backlog will go down soon. And I was thinking that the TPG's would eventually run out of things to grade since everything worth grading (and that made sense to grade, eg. not a $1 card) had pretty much already been graded already.

I’ve often had the same thought. But the beauty of BecKett’s model is that they “specialize” in new cards, thus guaranteeing a steady flow in the future. They are totally screwing that up right now. I think that Beckett has the market on new cards for 2 reasons:
1.new cards are all in incredible shape, so guys get suckered in with that black label 10 crap.
2. Since new cards are in such great shape, their use of subgrades helps distinguish a grade by it’s sub grades. Ex: We both have a 9.5, but mine is better because it has two 10 subs. It’s absurd, but true.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by orly57

I’ve often had the same thought. But the beauty of BecKett’s model is that they “specialize” in new cards, thus guaranteeing a steady flow in the future. They are totally screwing that up right now. I think that Beckett has the market on new cards for 2 reasons:
1.new cards are all in incredible shape, so guys get suckered in with that black label 10 crap.
2. Since new cards are in such great shape, their use of subgrades helps distinguish a grade by it’s sub grades. Ex: We both have a 9.5, but mine is better because it has two 10 subs. It’s absurd, but true.

Orlando you are absolutely correct. Nowhere is buy the flip more alive and well than in the new and shiny. Unbelievable with all the subgrades. But they started it and they have the market on it. And people care. And they care A LOT! And that keeps the machine going.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by swarmee

And yes, some people pay others to clean their shiny modern cards for them, mostly taking off dust and fingerprints, since those can lead to lower grades on chrome cards.

I still can't wrap my head around this... graders would actual detract for a bit of dust on a card? And collectors would pay for somebody else to remove it? Submitting to a grader carries risk, but that it offset by insurance (through USPS or the submission fee), but sending to a FOURTH party seems to incur even more risk without an offset.

Depending on how it works, the year wait could be beneficial - if somebody submitted an auto-refractor-thingy of Juan Soto (just an example, not even sure there was one last year) last November, they probably got in on a lower tier of the fees. Of course, they missed out on potentially cashing in during the mean time. And anybody who submitted cards of Robbie Cano or some others probably missed out on some decent money by not getting their slabs back quickly.

The whole thing is crazy. I would never ever send my cards away knowing I wouldn't get them back for a year, much less a few months.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

Orlando you are absolutely correct. Nowhere is buy the flip more alive and well than in the new and shiny. Unbelievable with all the subgrades. But they started it and they have the market on it. And people care. And they care A LOT! And that keeps the machine going.

I guess on the bright side, this is an indication the hobby is healthy and has a solid population keeping it going.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by orly57

I’ve often had the same thought. But the beauty of BecKett’s model is that they “specialize” in new cards, thus guaranteeing a steady flow in the future. They are totally screwing that up right now. I think that Beckett has the market on new cards for 2 reasons:
1.new cards are all in incredible shape, so guys get suckered in with that black label 10 crap.
2. Since new cards are in such great shape, their use of subgrades helps distinguish a grade by it’s sub grades. Ex: We both have a 9.5, but mine is better because it has two 10 subs. It’s absurd, but true.

Grading is not an exact science. Both modern and vintage flippers/dealers play the game and realize they are doing so. I've seen beat the hell pre-war cards celebrated by submitters simply because it got in an Authentic holder. The numerical grade is irrelevant.

[Throttlesteer]

BGS's whole business model and market share is predicated on the "Pristine" and "Super Pristine" (black) grade. If you removed these attributes from their service, they would be out-of-business tomorrow. As someone pointed out, it's all just gambling for the "chance" at a 10 or 10 black. Realistically, it makes absolutely no sense to send anything to BGS that would achieve a 9 or lower at best. Their population reports are heavily tilted with mostly 9's, a share of 10s and some lower grades sprinkled in (mainly inexperienced folks or those with bad eyesight trying for 10s).

This may not hold true for older cards. But, BGS has little market share or business differentiation in that space. I'm not trying to rag on BGS, but that's their primary customer.

[Hellwig]

How this is acceptable customer service and yet people continue to send them stuff says just as much about the collector as it does BGS. Speak with your wallets. Ridiculous

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by orly57

I’ve often had the same thought. But the beauty of BecKett’s model is that they “specialize” in new cards, thus guaranteeing a steady flow in the future. They are totally screwing that up right now. I think that Beckett has the market on new cards for 2 reasons:
1.new cards are all in incredible shape, so guys get suckered in with that black label 10 crap.
2. Since new cards are in such great shape, their use of subgrades helps distinguish a grade by it’s sub grades. Ex: We both have a 9.5, but mine is better because it has two 10 subs. It’s absurd, but true.

I hear you Orlando, I thought the same way until I started buying new stuff. I actually really like the BGS sub grades as it adds depth and complexity to collecting that I think others like too. If you're a centering guy, you can look for BGS 9.5's or 10's with only centering 10 sub grades, or corners with only 10's etc. This has a tendency too to widen the pricing band within grade as you're only really considering 9, 9.5's, 10's and black. And as far as the black label cards, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between most black and a Pristine 10 with one 9.5 sub grade. But it's genius marketing as most brands offer that "premium" model that we've all fallen for. Gotta say those black labels look really damn cool too. :-)

With the back log isn't that just for the lowest cost, non guaranteed date grading service? Makes sense that people paying more for the faster service would get front of the line....

[orly57]

AJ, I actually like the idea of subgrades. I like knowing where the card was hit and where it did well. I wish sgc and psa did subs. What I think is crazy is the differences in prices due to the subs. But I think paying substantially for small differences in grades is nutty to begin with, new or vintage.

[Stampsfan]

Steve Martin.jpg

Hey, maybe they just need the time to be really accurate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why do people think Beckett has the new card market? Look at ebay, people, PSA is HUGE in modern. Beckett has been losing share of this market steadily to PSA. The money guys are all buying PSA 10s now, not Beckett.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I also firmly believe the modern market is what fomented the change at the top of the scale for SGC.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why do people think Beckett has the new card market? Look at ebay, people, PSA is HUGE in modern. Beckett has been losing share of this market steadily to PSA. The money guys are all buying PSA 10s now, not Beckett.

I don't think anyone said BGS has the new card market. Just that their market share is predominately the new card market

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why do people think Beckett has the new card market? Look at ebay, people, PSA is HUGE in modern. Beckett has been losing share of this market steadily to PSA. The money guys are all buying PSA 10s now, not Beckett.

Sorry man this is not true. I'm dialed into quite a few big facebook groups for modern and the modern guys LOVE BGS over PSA. The collective thinking is that it's much harder to cross PSA 10's over to BGS 9.5's (or 10's) so the grading must be better and for modern the sub grades are crucial to help differentiate. I noticed this big time at the Natty where a good 75% of all modern cards I saw were BGS vs. PSA.

[Dpeck100]

Obviously a search by 2018 PSA and 2018 BGS on EBAY isn't perfect but it produces an interesting result. A lot of key word spamming happens and more so with people from other grading companies using PSA so certainly not to be taken at 100% but clearly suggesting that with new cards PSA is very much in the hunt. Perhaps winning in submissions. It is obviously no secret with older cards PSA has a near monopoly on fresh cards being submitted so a huge difference in market share. A few months back I was reading about wait times with BGS and saw that as a potentially healthy sign for overall grading submissions but this is clearly a capital issue and really egregious to sit on customers money for a year and climbing. Not good.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...8+psa&_sacat=0


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...8+bgs&_sacat=0

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Sorry man this is not true. I'm dialed into quite a few big facebook groups for modern and the modern guys LOVE BGS over PSA. The collective thinking is that it's much harder to cross PSA 10's over to BGS 9.5's (or 10's) so the grading must be better and for modern the sub grades are crucial to help differentiate. I noticed this big time at the Natty where a good 75% of all modern cards I saw were BGS vs. PSA.

Go compare Trout rookies or anything else you want on ebay, then report back. PSA 10s sell at a substantial advantage to BGS 9.5s. I don't know the market for one off weird basketball inserts and the like so if you're talking about that or autographs, fine, you could be right, but on your basic superstar rookies and variations, PSA is winning from what I see.

PS from what I know guys buy 9.5s (quads mostly) to try to cross them to PSA 10s. Not the other way around.