The new SGC is almost here! - Page 2

MikeGarcia · #51 07-03-2018, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRocket9

I like it! Their label was in desperate need of updating. As martuzzi stated the perforated edges on their old labels looked horrible at times. I think this change was a long time coming.

...I'm still aggravated that they moved the damned barcode in 1999....

...

conor912 · #52 07-03-2018, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CW

Typically when I look at a graded card I will just glance at the flip and then spend the rest of my time looking at the actual card.

Lucky you. I find the flips a huge distraction as my eyes naturally draw towards them. That's one of the main reasons I collect raw.

CW · #53 07-03-2018, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Hey Chuck, I have no concerns over the pristine holder, none of my cards would be graded as such. It all boils down to uniformity with the other SGC graded cards. I have nearly 100 Detroit OJs, all in SGC holders with green label. I have a couple upgrades ready to be sent in that will now stick out. When displaying the collection a good looking slab with a uniform look will help put the emphasis on the cards as it should be. I'm very stubborn on uniformity in all my hobbies, be it cards, coins, etc. I recognize it as a fault. This label change will result in some of us being less loyal to SGC. I'd be satisfied if they simply retained the green border. Maybe I'll be less opposed with time.

This I can understand. I have definitely learned over the years that many collectors strive for that element of uniformity.

As a side note, I think the best and most positive thing out of all this is that SGC is not going down without a fight. Not that they were on the way out, necessarily, but things weren't looking good -- SGC was stagnant as a company, while PSA had been introducing improvements to their products and site left and right.

It now seems like SGC is making a concerted effort to improve their product and market share, and that can only be a good thing for us collectors. The more competition for PSA and BGS, the better (even if SGC will never be as big as PSA, they don't have to be).

I also hope the improvements to the actual holder and plastic mold will forever eliminate the dreaded "slipping the gasket" epidemic that we saw with many SGC encapsulated cards, especially the glorious cabinet cards we all know and love. I thought I saw a mention of improvements to the holder itself, hopefully being similar to the PSA slab in which the rear portion fits inside of the front.

I am pulling for SGC to succeed with all of this.

CW · #54 07-03-2018, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

Lucky you. I find the flips a huge distraction as my eyes naturally draw towards them. That's one of the main reasons I collect raw.

You get to feel, touch, and smell the cards. Maybe you're the lucky one.

Tom S. · #55 07-03-2018, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmac32

Have a submission in right now. Hopefully I will still get the old label. LOL

Me too...

swarmee · #56 07-04-2018, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

The offer program in particular is exciting!

Until people start using it to offer $10 on $100 cards...

TheRocket9 · #57 07-04-2018, 07:32 AM

Do anyone know for sure if the actual holder itself is being redesigned? or if it's just the label?

ruth_rookie · #58 07-04-2018, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

Until people start using it to offer $10 on $100 cards...

Surely they’ll allow a minimum offer to be input by the seller, similar to eBay. I hope...

swarmee · #59 07-04-2018, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

Surely they’ll allow a minimum offer to be input by the seller, similar to eBay. I hope...

But then you'd have to price or value every card you own in SGC flips on their website for that to happen. Otherwise, how would the website know what your card is worth to you/the market and what a fair offer for it is? I bet a lot of collectors will just turn that option off after getting a couple of offers, since many never plan to sell their own cards.

ruth_rookie · #60 07-04-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

But then you'd have to price or value every card you own in SGC flips on their website for that to happen. Otherwise, how would the website know what your card is worth to you/the market and what a fair offer for it is? I bet a lot of collectors will just turn that option off after getting a couple of offers, since many never plan to sell their own cards.

Good point. Hopefully SGC is taking all of this crucial stuff into consideration.

SetBuilder · #61 07-04-2018, 08:35 AM

For any card graded gem mint 10, you should have the option of embedding a polished diamond stone on the flap, next to the grade.

ruth_rookie · #62 07-04-2018, 09:16 AM

It’s obvious there are many different opinions regarding the color of the flip and that not everyone will be happy, regardless what color they use. With that in mind, SGC should offer whatever color the customer chooses. Doesn’t seem like it would be very difficult for them to do, nor cost prohibitive. It could be as simple as an option to fill out on the submission form. So if I’ve submitted a bunch of ‘48-49 Leaf, I could ask for a particular color...say blue for example. For my ‘52 Topps I would like to have green ones. Then I could identify a card from far away (identity the year/issue anyway). Of course it may be a little more difficult to sell a rainbow-colored collection when the time comes...lol.

calvindog · #63 07-04-2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

Until people start using it to offer $10 on $100 cards...

Just like they do on the BST. At least prior to making an offer you won't have to read that the card is undergraded or that it's really not OC when it's OC.

Exhibitman · #64 07-04-2018, 10:09 AM

As an aging fart I appreciate the larger numbers.

Leon · #65 07-05-2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As an aging fart I appreciate the larger numbers.

Me too but there is an abundance of OCD collectors. These changes sometimes cause them nightmares. For me, change is normal, but not so for many. Whenever we make any slight modification to the board I get PMs about it changing....That said every company has to roll with the times.

mb2005 · #66 07-05-2018, 10:12 AM

If the old label is better, maybe someone will come up with an HES (high end slab) sticker or a HELL (high end label logo) sticker to put on there....

nolemmings · #67 07-05-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

It’s obvious there are many different opinions regarding the color of the flip and that not everyone will be happy, regardless what color they use. With that in mind, SGC should offer whatever color the customer chooses. Doesn’t seem like it would be very difficult for them to do, nor cost prohibitive. It could be as simple as an option to fill out on the submission form. So if I’ve submitted a bunch of ‘48-49 Leaf, I could ask for a particular color...say blue for example. For my ‘52 Topps I would like to have green ones. Then I could identify a card from far away (identity the year/issue anyway). Of course it may be a little more difficult to sell a rainbow-colored collection when the time comes...lol.

Although I haven't thought it through,it seems to me that this is actually not a bad idea in general, although I would tweak it. Leave the flip as it is, but have another flip, identical in format, that gets affixed over the top (on the holder) and is readily removable. This could not be the same color as any of the "official" flips, or if it was, it would need some distinguishing characteristic so it could not be perceived as official if removed and used improperly. Then all of your cards would have the same look, in a manner endorsed by the grading company and in a format that all know, but you still could remove your own labels when selling so that the buyer: a) can see the original and official flip to determine it's legit, and b)would not be turned away by your choice of fuschia and yellow. Again, it should be readily removable so as to not leave a bunch of residue or otherwise make it hard to get the holder back to its initial look.

As suggested, it seems to me the "over-flips" could easily be printed in a variety of colors at low cost and with little production time added. Maybe make them tamper evident--I dunno, just spit-ballin here. Personally, I have no concern about the colors, fonts, style, etc. of the flip, but I see where it makes a difference to a lot of folks here, so maybe we can refine the particulars if people are interested in the concept. After all and as observed, others are already slapping stickers on these slabs--why not have some personalized decorating done at the ground level?

orly57 · #68 07-05-2018, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

But then you'd have to price or value every card you own in SGC flips on their website for that to happen. Otherwise, how would the website know what your card is worth to you/the market and what a fair offer for it is? I bet a lot of collectors will just turn that option off after getting a couple of offers, since many never plan to sell their own cards.

I think it’s worked out pretty well with the Heritage “make an offer program.”

CW · #69 07-05-2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRocket9

Do anyone know for sure if the actual holder itself is being redesigned? or if it's just the label?

I wondered that myself.

Nowhere has it been stated that the holder is redesigned, but the first thread that broke this news was all about the "new slab" so everyone went with that.

If you look at the edges of the slab on the previous photo with the new flip, it does look like the seam is slightly different, but it could just be photoshop touchups making it look more clean for the website.

tschock · #70 07-05-2018, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

Lucky you. I find the flips a huge distraction as my eyes naturally draw towards them. That's one of the main reasons I collect raw.

A more innovative solution would be to simply reverse the holder halves, using the current front as the back and the back as the front. Let all the grade-heads flip the card to see the flip. Those that buy the card and not the holder won't care. And those that buy the holder will flip having to flip the card to see the flip.

conor912 · #71 07-05-2018, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tschock

A more innovative solution would be to simply reverse the holder halves, using the current front as the back and the back as the front. Let all the grade-heads flip the card to see the flip. Those that buy the card and not the holder won't care. And those that buy the holder will flip having to flip the card to see the flip.

In an ideal world (for me), the flip would give an opinion on authenticity and alteration status only, letting collectors decide on the grade. In reality, though, that will never happen because too many people want their opinions spoon fed to them by someone else. The number of people I have met in my life who happily let someone else do their thinking for them is staggering. I'm not at all saying all slabbies are idiots, I'm just giving a "bonafide" grade lets the idiots into the party.

the 'stache · #72 07-06-2018, 04:49 AM

I like the change to a 1-10 grading scale. But that gold label for pristine cards is hideous. A simple "10" is enough.

KMayUSA6060 · #73 07-06-2018, 07:40 AM

I would be fascinated to know what research they did that led to the decision to go with these new flips.

AdamG · #74 07-06-2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

In an ideal world (for me), the flip would give an opinion on authenticity and alteration status only, letting collectors decide on the grade. In reality, though, that will never happen because too many people want their opinions spoon fed to them by someone else. The number of people I have met in my life who happily let someone else do their thinking for them is staggering. I'm not at all saying all slabbies are idiots, I'm just giving a "bonafide" grade lets the idiots into the party.

I get your point... but the grade really helps me when purchasing online. Unless you can see the card in person and move it around in the light it is really hard to judge sometimes. If you're buying 8, 9, or 10s it probably doesn't matter but if you're in the low-mid grades like me there could be any number of flaws that just don't come across in all pictures. If something looks like a 6 and is a 6 then great... if something looks like a 6 and is a 3 then that is when I start asking more questions or asking for better pictures.

I'm more interested in comprehensive grading notes online than the grade itself. If there is a surface wrinkle or light crease that a photo isn't picking up I'd like to know.

conor912 · #75 07-06-2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamG

I'm more interested in comprehensive grading notes online than the grade itself. If there is a surface wrinkle or light crease that a photo isn't picking up I'd like to know.

I agree. This would be incredible.

ValKehl · #76 07-06-2018, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I would be fascinated to know what research they did that led to the decision to go with these new flips.

Research? You're kidding, right?! (Sorry - I just couldn't resist!)

steve B · #77 07-08-2018, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I would be fascinated to know what research they did that led to the decision to go with these new flips.

Probably this much -

"Beckett has a backlog, what are they doing that we aren't?"
"well, their labels are different colors"
"Could it really be that easy?"
"Maybe? Who knows"
"Ok, lets do that"

frankbmd · #78 07-08-2018, 06:16 PM

Personally I care about the card and could care less about the flip.

I expect that SGC will offer the new flip as a courtesy (free of charge) to

any collector with several hundred of the older flips so the the uniformity of our

(OCD collectors') collections can be maintained.

drmondobueno · #79 07-13-2018, 03:18 PM

Meh.

deadballpaul · #80 07-15-2018, 04:00 AM

One thing I would like, is for SGC not put "hand cut" on all W cards. Not all W cards are hand cut strip cards.

TheRocket9 · #81 07-15-2018, 06:51 AM

I hope they are not just changing the label alone. I hope they introduce a new holder as well. Just changing the label doesn't do anything. They have done this several times already.

Johnny630 · #82 07-15-2018, 09:41 AM

Will PSA continue to sell for a premium to SGC ? Or will these new changes help their product sell on par with PSA.

conor912 · #83 07-15-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Will PSA continue to sell for a premium to SGC ? Or will these new changes help their product sell on par with PSA.

My guess is if PSA even remotely saw SGC as a threat, they would have just bought them by now.

Tom S. · #84 07-20-2018, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmac32

Have a submission in right now. Hopefully I will still get the old label. LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Me too...

FYI...

I got my submission back today, and they came with the old flips. So I'm happy...

Republicaninmass · #85 07-20-2018, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom S.

FYI...

I got my submission back today, and they came with the old flips. So I'm happy...

Mine too!

Leon · #86 07-21-2018, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

My guess is if PSA even remotely saw SGC as a threat, they would have just bought them by now.

And my guess is PSA thinks competition is good. I doubt they would buy SGC regardless of the situation. But who knows? I know I need to send in another submission to SGC soon to keep my 18 yrs streak going. The only grader for me is SGC.....My one submission to PSA sucked and I doubt I go back to them to submit. I will still have cards in their holders but SGC gets my business for being the most accurate (not perfect) graders. BVG is a close second for me. If Beckett did a better job marketing their vintage they might get the prices they deserve. Until then SGC is my main choice. It sounds like the old flips are staying for now, which is a good thing for many. For me, flips aren't that important.

kmac32 · #87 07-21-2018, 08:06 PM

Submission back today. Old label as is tradition. All good!

vintagebaseballcardguy · #88 07-27-2018, 05:37 AM

This may have been addressed---if so I just missed it, but is the actual size/ dimensions of their slab going to remain the same?

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Throttlesteer · #89 07-27-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal1010

Personally I don't care what their label looks like, or what their holder looks like. The only thing that I care about is that the grade they do put on the card is an accurate grade! I have way too many SGC & PSA graded cards that have been so inconsistently graded over the years that it's almost embarrassing to pull out a 7 in a holder that today would be lucky to get a 5 with todays grading. If they are going to make one change, please let it be consistent grading of their cards for all submissions. I for one am getting tired of playing the submission roulette depending on which grader you happen to get on any given day with both PSA & SGC.

The biggest change to card grading will be when PSA, SGC, BGS, or whoever decides to implement AI for grading. When you remove human subjectivity from the process, it will be (in theory) as consistent as it gets. While it would potentially improve the turnaround times and increase throughput, there are potential downsides too. At that point, I doubt there would be nearly as many crossover attempts.

CMIZ5290 · #90 07-27-2018, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Will PSA continue to sell for a premium to SGC ? Or will these new changes help their product sell on par with PSA.

Really? Holy cow....PSA will always command a premium over SGC...Prewar cards like T206s, not even close....

Johnny630 · #91 07-27-2018, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Really? Holy cow....PSA will always command a premium over SGC...Prewar cards like T206s, not even close....

Seems like they demand a premium in all their cards. People are addicted to their registry and pop report.

Throttlesteer · #92 07-27-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

And my guess is PSA thinks competition is good. I doubt they would buy SGC regardless of the situation. But who knows? I know I need to send in another submission to SGC soon to keep my 18 yrs streak going. The only grader for me is SGC.....My one submission to PSA sucked and I doubt I go back to them to submit. I will still have cards in their holders but SGC gets my business for being the most accurate (not perfect) graders. BVG is a close second for me. If Beckett did a better job marketing their vintage they might get the prices they deserve. Until then SGC is my main choice. It sounds like the old flips are staying for now, which is a good thing for many. For me, flips aren't that important.

Interesting, coming from you Leon. I have always written off vintage BVG stuff because I've heard so many concerns about grading trimmed cards or overgrading in general. I may rethink my position. I've always thought SGC is more consistent, even though PSA commands an obvious premium. For whatever reason, PSA has tightened up their grades significantly. In many cases, older flips would grade at least a full point lower than even 5 years ago.

TheRocket9 · #93 08-01-2018, 07:52 PM

Well I guess it's official.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #94 08-01-2018, 08:01 PM

The holder looks the same, which is fine with me.

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iowadoc77 · #95 08-01-2018, 08:11 PM

Saw them at the National today. I actually like the look. I know that puts me in the minority but I like them.

dio · #96 08-01-2018, 08:16 PM

I like it look better than the previous one. but still wish they use better material like beckett, and maybe security sticker like psa

Neal · #97 08-01-2018, 08:30 PM

Impressive

griffon512 · #98 08-01-2018, 08:39 PM

The picture in a previous post doesn't give perspective on how large the number grade is on the flip. SGC is doing a lot of things right by collectors with the changes they are making, but the size of the number grade on the flip overshadows the card underneath. The close to uniform feedback I heard from other hobby collectors was that the size of the number grade should be reduced significantly to keep the focus on the card itself and not cheapen the look of the flip. I'm in that camp!

Shankweather · #99 08-01-2018, 08:49 PM

Why are there two grades next to the 4.5 Joe Jackson? And neither are a 4.5, but instead would be 3 and 5.5?

CW · #**100** 08-01-2018, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shankweather

Why are there two grades next to the 4.5 Joe Jackson? And neither are a 4.5, but instead would be 3 and 5.5?

Just a guess here, but a 4 is considered VG-EX, so a 4.5 would be VG-EX+. SGC just divided the "VG-EX+" into those 2 little hexagons.

I am disappointed that the SGC holder is the same and that the edge seal was not improved to be more tamper evident.