My experience with LOTG

[botport]

I recently won an auction from LOTG.
This is the Lot...

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lo...entoryid=14067

After paying in a timely manner (check cashed by
AH on 12/10/17) and inquiring as to the status of my order.. I was told that my order had been 'misplaced or lost' and to 'wait a few days' while he looked into it. I waited...

Subsequently, I have since been told that the lot I rightfully won has been 'lost'. The explanation was .. ' I must have sent them to someone else' and 'Companies of all sizes make mistakes'...

On 12/28 (Thursday) Al told me that the Lot was 'lost' and that he would send a check out to me ''this week''....


Well as of today... 1/8.. no check and no cards... I still expect a check but why the hold up?

My name is Frank Horvath and I stand 100% by everything I've said here.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Thats a terrible experience. I wonder if that was a good price.

Anyway, i wont bid on any of their auctions or consign.

[Wite3]

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.

[ALR-bishop]

My experiences with LOTG and Al have all been great.

[botport]

Originally Posted by Wite3

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.

Great auction ? ... Does that mean losing buyers cards?

Sorry I disagree.

East coast snow... ok true... I am dealing with that also but have within the last 5 days confirmed deliveries from PA to MN and NJ.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by Wite3

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.

+100000. Al is a great stand up guy. With the mail being slowed by the weather, it will be there any day. I am in Charleston, SC and we got hit with a snowstorm (worse in 30 years) and didn't get mail from Wed-Sat. Finally got mail today.

Mark

[Al C.risafulli]

My name is Frank Horvath and I stand 100% by everything I've said here.

I will also stand 100% by everything that Frank says here.

He won the lot in question, and paid very quickly. His check was deposited on December 10, and his order was pulled and put into the queue to be packed and shipped.

After not receiving any sort of tracking number, Frank reached out to me December 20 to inquire about the status of his order. Since I had no record of the order having shipped, I asked him for a couple of days to get to the bottom of it, and on December 28, I sent Frank an email advising him that I could not locate the package. Best I can guess, his cards were packed up with someone else's order and shipped to them in error. I offered him a full refund, and told him that he could have the refund in the form of a check or auction credit, whichever he would prefer (some folks like the credit).

Frank responded that he had no need for an auction credit because he'd never be bidding with LOTG again. I responded that I understood his frustration, took complete blame for the error, and DID say that "companies in every industry certainly do make mistakes occasionally."

I cut and mailed a check for the amount in full the following day, December 29.

This thread is, unfortunately, the first I am learning that Frank has not received his check, and once again, Frank, for that I apologize. I did cut the check, and I did mail the check, for the amount in full. Perhaps the combination of a holiday weekend and rancid weather in the Northeast is to blame for it not arriving at this point, so I will suggest we give it a couple of days, and if the check is not there by then I will stop payment on the check and PayPal you the money, and absorb all fees.

It is absolutely my goal to be 100% perfect in every transaction, with every lot and with every order. Sadly, despite the lofty goal, occasionally we make a mistake that is 100% in our control and we simply fall down. When that happens, we do our best to make it 100% right in every case.

I'll also stand 100% by everything I've said here.

Happy New Year, Frank, and everyone else as well.

-Al

[Kawika]

Some day when the sun sets for the last time on old Kawika my collection will be auctioned off by LOTG. (The catalog is going to be a corker). I trust Al like a brother. If it were me I would wait for him to make things right. He will.

[botport]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I will also stand 100% by everything that Frank says here.

I cut and mailed a check for the amount in full the following day, December 29.


-Al

I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

[Al C.risafulli]

I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

Sounds great. I'd be curious to see that myself, since the letter carrier picks up the mail from the box just outside this office every afternoon. If you post the check, which I hope you do, I'd appreciate if you'd obscure the bank account number.

-Al

[botport]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Sounds great. I'd be curious to see that myself, since the letter carrier picks up the mail from the box just outside this office every afternoon. If you post the check, which I hope you do, I'd appreciate if you'd obscure the bank account number.

-Al

I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread...

Ill block out all confidential info... Al

Frank

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by botport

I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

Frank, Al has proven to the vast majority of this board about his being a stand up auction house owner and person. You are treating him like he is the guy with socks on the floor holding up a superimposed T206 Wagner for sale.

You will find the board are overwhelmingly on his side. Sorry you have had some issues...stuff happens, and it is the true test of a man's character how they handle it.

Brian Park:er

[autograf]

I've bid in most all of Al's auctions and received everything timely. I think he came on the thread and agreed with everything you said, apologized, and continues to want to make it right. I guess, at what point will you be happy? Hopefully you'll get the check soon or take the PayPal and cut your losses. I've had issues with auction houses in the past too, but at some point, beating the dead horse doesn't make it deader. Hope it's cleared up in the next day or two for you. You seem like you don't believe that he's done what he said he had done......

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by botport

Great auction ? ... Does that mean losing buyers cards?

Sorry I disagree.

East coast snow... ok true... I am dealing with that also but have within the last 5 days confirmed deliveries from PA to MN and NJ.

I had an auction a few years ago where someone accidentally sent me the wrong card. Not LOTG. A more valuable card. I made it right. Took some time.
Sometimes things happen. No one is perfect.
As far as I know Al has one other person working with him. It it was a mistake, once you get your check you are in no worse position than you were the day before the auction started. I'd suggest taking a deep breath and calm down. Not saying I wouldn't be frustrated to but this will be made right.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by botport

I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread...

Ill block out all confidential info... Al

Frank

If you and Jake would like a list of auction houses that are run by people who have been in jail, defrauded little old ladies out of their retirement on TV, allow consigners to bid on their own items, have molested children, or are known to trim/soak cards, I'd be happy to send it to you so you can make sure you don't support the real criminals in this hobby either.

If the worse thing Al ever does is mistakenly put a lot in someone else's package and then makes it right, I think I can live with that.

Jeff Payne

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Frank, Al has proven to the vast majority of this board about his being a stand up auction house owner and person. You are treating him like he is the guy with socks on the floor holding up a superimposed T206 Wagner for sale.

You will find the board are overwhelmingly on his side. Sorry you have had some issues...stuff happens, and it is the true test of a man's character how they handle it.

Brian Park:er

Almost forgot about that guy. Hard to believe it has been so long.

[MVSNYC]

I’ve consigned and bid in every one of Al’s auctions since day one. Saying he’s top notch is an understatement. Sorry this happened to you, but he will work hard to make it right.

[botport]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I had an auction a few years ago where someone accidentally sent me the wrong card. Not LOTG. A more valuable card. I made it right. Took some time.
Sometimes things happen. No one is perfect.
As far as I know Al has one other person working with him. It it was a mistake, once you get your check you are in no worse position than you were the day before the auction started. I'd suggest taking a deep breath and calm down. Not saying I wouldn't be frustrated to but this will be made right.

PS. "My sad experience" is a tad melodramatic, no?

Steve.. I have always appreciated your comments, that's why I will respond to you. There is no need to 'take a breath' ... 'calm down' as you say... I've only relayed facts...

FH

[Eric72]

Add me to the list of Net54 members who have had nothing but positive experiences with LOTG. I am confident that Al will make this right.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by botport

Steve.. I have always appreciated your comments, that's why I will respond to you. There is no need to 'take a breath' ... 'calm down' as you say... I've only relayed facts...

FH

I understand your frustration. It sucks when something doesn't go as it should. None of are in the hobby to get more aggravation in our lives.

But he is a good guy.

[Moonlight Graham]

Add me to that list as well-Al is the man. And he runs a great auction house too!!

Joe K

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by eric72

add me to the list of net54 members who have had nothing but positive experiences with lotg. I am confident that al will make this right.

+1000

[sycks22]

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.

[the-illini]

Al is one of the best people in the hobby and his auction house is as reputable as you will find. He clearly made a mistake but I would bet my collection on him doing right by it.

Chris Bland

[shagrotn77]

I don't agree with the OP starting this thread, but I'm glad he did. Anyone in the hobby who wasn't already familiar with Al can now read all the glowing things people have to say about him - things that are 100% true. There are, unfortunately, a lot of bad guys in this hobby. Al is absolutely not one of them.

[orly57]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

[botport]

Thank you.

FH

[conor912]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.

This was my thought. How does this work? If you receive something that isn't yours and don't give it back, is it considered stealing?

Al, any clue as to which package it might have mistakenly been added to?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by orly57

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by orly57

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

Hard to imagine that all the posters would feel the same if they were in the OPs shoes. Just sayin’.........

[ValKehl]

I, too, have consigned to and won cards in LOTG Auctions. Shit sometimes happens, despite the best efforts of good people. Al C. is good people!

[Rich Falvo]

Last year, I won a card on ebay from a dealer that also has a brick-and-mortar store. Apparently, the card was sold in the store before it could be removed from online. The seller kept me up to date on looking for the card and after a few days, I got a full refund. Was I frustrated? Of course. But, I wouldn't have then come on here and blasted the guy by name after he tried to do the right thing.

[botport]

.... and others....


appreciate your input...

[ramram]

Hope there isn’t a mailman with sticky fingers between the two locations.

Rob M

[unamuzd1]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.

11 extra PSA-slabbed t206 cards would be a little hard for the buyer to miss. They would also alter the weight of the package they went out in from what would otherwise be expected, I would think, by an amount that might make it possible to isolate to whom they could have been accidentally shipped. I'm sure Al's already looked into that, though.

I have bought from Al/LOTG in the past, and would do so again without hesitation. I'd be disappointed and frustrated if this were to happen with something I won, but as long as the seller made it right, it wouldn't be much different from losing by one bid. And I've done that lots.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by orly57

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

I agree with this. Also, the check cleared on the 10th, and the OP had to reach out 10 days later to inform the AH that his order hadn't been sent out. I would expect someone at LOTG to have been looking for these cards to send out before that. And after being informed it took another 8 days to get a response back? If this happened to me I would not be pleased.

I get that AL is well respected and one of the good guys in our hobby. But from what I've read in this thread this particular situation could have been handled better in my opinion.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

Last year, I won a card on ebay from a dealer that also has a brick-and-mortar store. Apparently, the card was sold in the store before it could be removed from online. The seller kept me up to date on looking for the card and after a few days, I got a full refund. Was I frustrated? Of course. But, I wouldn't have then come on here and blasted the guy by name after he tried to do the right thing.

I have been on the awkward seller side of that equation twice. I have offered a full refund and 10% off their next purchase as an apology. While I understand being frustrated I gotta agree with Al. No company is perfect. I am much more interested in how a company (or person) rectifies their mistakes than I am in them being perfect.

Does it suck? Absolutely. But unless you suspect foul play (and there would be no reason not to ship you that lot for what you paid) are you really so perfect that you can't comprehend an innocent, honest mistake? If so I hope you never find yourself in the wrong!

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by unamuzd1

11 extra PSA-slabbed t206 cards would be a little hard for the buyer to miss. They would also alter the weight of the package they went out in from what would otherwise be expected, I would think, by an amount that might make it possible to isolate to whom they could have been accidentally shipped. I'm sure Al's already looked into that, though.

I have bought from Al/LOTG in the past, and would do so again without hesitation. I'd be disappointed and frustrated if this were to happen with something I won, but as long as the seller made it right, it wouldn't be much different from losing by one bid. And I've done that lots.

I'd concentrate on anyone else who won T206 lots in the auction. There were several lots in it. Start with the person who won the most cards (where 11 extra T206s were more likely to go unnoticed), and go from there.

Steve

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by orly57

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

Although Al and LOTG are top notch, this situation seems to have been handled rather poorly. I have no doubt that Al will make this right, but he lost a customer in the process and it could've easily been avoided. I hope everything is resolved sooner rather than later

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

+1

Although Al and LOTG are top notch, this situation seems to have been handled rather poorly. I have no doubt that Al will make this right, but he lost a customer in the process and it could've easily been avoided. I hope everything is resolved sooner rather than later

According to Al, 8 days after the customer inquired about status of the order, he was sent an email that the item could not be located, and that a refund would be issued. Perhaps this was longer than ideal, but it sounds like once the customer received this email, he decided to instantly state that he would not do business with LOTG again (which is certainly the right of any customer).

To me it seems like the customer is not of a forgiving nature, and perhaps is a little quick to pass judgement without willing to consider mitigating factors (AH is a 1 or 2 person business, mistakes happen, life getting in the way of responding promptly, weather affecting delivery of mail...I recently had a package I sent take almost 2 weeks to get to its destination, etc).

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

According to Al, 8 days after the customer inquired about status of the order, he was sent an email that the item could not be located, and that a refund would be issued. Perhaps this was longer than ideal, but it sounds like once the customer received this email, he decided to instantly state that he would not do business with LOTG again (which is certainly the right of any customer).

To me it seems like the customer is not of a forgiving nature, and perhaps is a little quick to pass judgement without willing to consider mitigating factors (AH is a 1 or 2 person business, mistakes happen, life getting in the way of responding promptly, weather affecting delivery of mail...I recently had a package I sent take almost 2 weeks to get to its destination, etc).

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

I'm a pretty forgiving person, so I most likely wouldn't have went the exact route as the OP did, but I'm not saying he's in the wrong here nor do I think Al and co run a bad auction house...I just think it could have been handled a little better and with a tad more urgency...it is what it is at this point.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I'm a pretty forgiving person, so I most likely wouldn't have went the exact route as the OP did, but I'm not saying he's in the wrong here nor do I think Al and co run a bad auction house...I just think it could have been handled a little better and with a tad more urgency...it is what it is at this point.

I agree.

Brian

[philliesphan]

Sad to see this thread when I woke up today.

Also, as someone who works for an Internet company (and has for the past decade), it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences vs. simply picking up the phone and calling. Alas.

I think all companies make mistakes, and I am usually willing to give any company a one-time free pass. You've made a different decision, Frank, which is your prerogative.

From my perspective, I have consigned to (nearly every?) one of Al's auctions since the inaugural one many years ago. I consider Al to be both honest and hard-working. I have also spent many thousands of dollars across LotG auctions over the past few years, and always revel in amazement at some of the cool items that Al unearths and researchs to benefit the hobby and his consignors.

I consider him to be one of the good guys of the hobby, echoing what many others have said here. I don't think any AH will ever have a 100% satisfaction rate, and I'm sorry that you're unhappy with your experience. But I think it is important to note that your experience is a snowflake, compared to the blizzard of kudos that Al, Jeff and LotG continue to receive.

Marc

[toledo_mudhen]

and 1 more vote for Al is a stand up guy and does everything in his power to make things right.... from personal experience and stuff does happen.

[barrysloate]

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

[T205 GB]

Considering that the only AH I have ever received a package from in less than a week has been Sterling I personally think that the OP came here to slander Al, Jeff, and LOTG and should be liable for that. In the amount of time that this issue was handled in I am sure any of us would have been happy especially since its one of the larger Auction Houses. Does eBay not take just as long to settle a issue like this? The OP is probably pissed he didn't get the lot so he could resubmit for grade bumps and make money.

I consigned some cards to Sterling before Lee came to ownership. A tougher card was lost during the grading and it took almost 30 days to settle up. I allowed the AH to take every step possible to track the card down before I was contacted and just paid outright for the card based on market value. Now I could have came here and said all kinds of bad stuff but I can guarantee this is the first in 7 years this has ever been mentioned here. What I am saying is the OP and I will never have a transaction, and I truly hope LOTG auctions takes a stand since they did make it right in a timely professional manner.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

Barry I do hope that the person that received the cards returns them. Sadly we both know that this is not how a lot of people are anymore

[T206Collector]

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

[Bpm0014]

....it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences

I don't even know Al, but couldn't agree more with the above statement.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

Just don't try it the other way around.