O/t - Safes

[rainier2004]

So...I wanna know everything about picking out a safe. I understand the heat rating, they also look like they have a waterproof rating now. I get that most of the damage is done with water putting out the fire and those things need to be kept off the ground. I want to bolt this bad boy and I also want some extra space for documents and whatever else I get into. I currently have a whopping 88 cards in the collection but that could always grow.

So I am looking at this one:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stack-On...MB-E/202996367

Why are smaller ones $2k+? Shelves are great and all but I don't understand the price disparity. Its 418 lbs so it would be tough to carry out of my house and all but I just don't get it.

Also, does anyone know how much of a break I will get in my card insurance on this?

Any help/assistance is always appreciated.

[Rhotchkiss]

Great topic Steven. I too am in need of a great safe and know nothing. Would love to hear what the board has to say on the matter, including links to safes people own and recommend.

[Leon]

I have a 1200 lb jewelers safe, bought it used but new condition, and when I had a more expensive collection I always used a bank safe deposit box. Best money I ever spent (and it wasn't much) for the peace of mind. I think I paid around 1100 dollars and I don't think they have gone up too much (when you can find a good used one they are cheap, many times). I got mine at a safe store that had new and used ones.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have a 1200 lb jewelers safe, bought it used but new condition, and when I had a more expensive collection I always used a bank safe deposit box. Best money I ever spent (and it wasn't much) for the peace of mind. I think I paid around 1100 dollars and I don't think they have gone up too much (when you can find a good used one they are cheap, many times). I got mine at a safe store that had new and used ones.

What store did you go to? Mom and Pops or was it a chain? It seems like a lot of places don't keep too many safes on hand.

Can I ask what thought/preferences you put into the purchase? A heavy ass safe sounds like great peace of mind and Id agree that is priceless.

[deagleii]

There are numerous types of safes from jewelers to gun safes. The biggest problem with them for us as collectors is water. Be careful when you bolt it down that is likely where the water will come from. You will hear myths about self-sealing doors during a fire. What if there is no fire and your sump pump backs up?

Liberty makes one called a fatboy that is about $1000 on sale delivered. They usually run $1500. It is big enough that your average fella will not be moving and big enough to hold all of your valuables from guns, cards as well as rings and bullion. Water will get in if not the inside will be steam anyway.

Below is a link to talk about water proof safes.

https://blog.safeandvaultstore.com/a...es-waterproof/

[NonSportDaniel]

Mine is a Johnson Safe. Johnsonsafes.net. The BR series are really nice. I'm going to approach them about making one with only shelves and not the long gun half as I need another one now. I'd like a pull out lateral file drawer for my hanging binders.

[vintagetoppsguy]

There's two aspects to the fire rating - temperature and duration. The fire rating on that Stackon sucks.

Other things that make a difference in the price are the materials of construction, locking bolts, locking mechanism and hinges.

My guess is that it's not constructed that well. My safe is about the same dimensions, but weighs a lot more. It doesn't appear to have many locking bolts. The locking mechanism is electronic. Personally, I don't like electronic. I really can't give an opinion on the hinges without seeing it in person.

As someone else mentioned, go with the Liberty.

[pokerplyr80]

Curious as to why the safe in your link would need an extended warranty. If the manufacturer won't even stand behind a safe for 3 years I don't think I'd be interested.

[ZiggerZagger]

Having explored this topic as a complete novice in the past year and coming out of it much wiser, I'd throw in a few key tidbits:

--If you want more than to keep out nosy neighborhood kids, then do NOT buy anything rated as a RSC (Residential Security Container) which is anything from Costco/Walmart/etc. or labeled as a 'Gun Safe'. You need a "Vault".

--Any determined individual with a prybar will have nearly any Safe open within 60 seconds. (Check out YouTube for examples if you don't want to sleep well at night...)

--Layering of security measures is key, with a conventional Alarm/Motion/Camera system as well as concealment both effective layers of security in addition to the Safe itself.

--Best rule of thumb is to invest in Steel -- Use your $$$ to buy as thick of steel gauge for the body and door of the safe as possible. This is all that truly provides resilience to an attack. This also necessarily increases the weight of the safe. A decent Vault is going to be 1000 lbs plus. Anything less will fall under an RSC definition, typically.

--I would strongly recommend enlisting a local safe/security company who specializes in this area of work.

--Be sure to bolt the Safe to your foundation/floor once mounted. All Safes of even modest size have pre-drilled holes in the bottom, and not bolting it down will allow the Safe to be tipped and attacked from the side, where the Body is typically much thinner gauge steel than the Door.

--If the collection is too valuable to be held safely at home with peace of mind, use a Safety Deposit Box at the Bank.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

What store did you go to? Mom and Pops or was it a chain? It seems like a lot of places don't keep too many safes on hand.

Can I ask what thought/preferences you put into the purchase? A heavy ass safe sounds like great peace of mind and Id agree that is priceless.

I put a lot of thought into it and the safe I got I couldn't be happier with.

https://www.a-1locksmith.com/plano/ is where I got it.

I wasn't here when it was delivered but understand it had to have a tow truck to bring it in. It is rated TL30, which I think means that it's going to take someone at least 30 minutes to get into it under their best circumstance with normal tools. It also has another small safe built in the inside too. It is fire rated Class 350 2 hours, and is probably 2-4 inches of solid steel all the way around it. That all said when my collection got too valuable to leave at home (safes don't protect from people with guns, God forbid) I got the Bank box. I had the Safe Deposit box for at least 10-15 yrs along with the safe at home. The bank safe deposit box, a very large one, was around 125 per yr. I strongly recommend one if you have a valuable collection. Good luck.

[Snapolit1]

I put minimal thought into it and bought a Sentry safe from Amazon. Brand has a solid reputation. Heavy as hell and some dude carried it into my house. Works fine.
Flood and fire rating? If my house burns to the ground my collection will be the least of my worries. And is insured. Flood a little more important as I did have a terrible flood on the other side of my home.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I put minimal thought into it and bought a Sentry safe from Amazon. Brand has a solid reputation. Heavy as hell and some dude carried it into my house. Works fine.
Flood and fire rating? If my house burns to the ground my collection will be the least of my worries. And is insured. Flood a little more important as I did have a terrible flood on the other side of my home.

If some dude carried it into your house, that implies some dude could carry it out of your house, no?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If some dude carried it into your house, that implies some dude could carry it out of your house, no?

Some dude stronger than you Peter.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If some dude carried it into your house, that implies some dude could carry it out of your house, no?

he put minimal thought into it.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If some dude carried it into your house, that implies some dude could carry it out of your house, no?

Ha. Well it was in the box. When I took it out to the box my son and I had a hell of a time carrying to together. I guess they make the plastic shell very hard to carry. Very slippery. And I did bolt to the floor.

[Joe_G.]

I opted for Liberty Lincoln Safe years ago, built into closet which would require walls to be torn down to remove it. The safe will stay with the house Not a guarantee against theft but another layer of protection. I also have the safelert service which allows me to check on temperature, humidity, door open/close status etc. It has a very sensitive "shake" feature that when triggered texts me. If I lay a hand on the safe I receive a text within ~30 seconds. If wifi mysteriously goes down I receive a similar notice. I can also set custom triggers on temperature and humidity which is helpful if you are, for example, in a high humidity environment. This feature can remind you to turn on the dehumidifier (safe has its own dry rod dehumidifier, one of several accessories you can consider). Tornado and fire are more likely than theft in Iowa; the Liberty safe provides some protection from all (heavy, quite a few layers of fire board, ball bearing steel hardplate, 14 bolt, etc.).

http://www.libertysafe.com/safe-linc...html?tab=specs

http://www.libertysafe.com/accessory...-17-pg-85.html

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

Having explored this topic as a complete novice in the past year and coming out of it much wiser, I'd throw in a few key tidbits:

--If you want more than to keep out nosy neighborhood kids, then do NOT buy anything rated as a RSC (Residential Security Container) which is anything from Costco/Walmart/etc. or labeled as a 'Gun Safe'. You need a "Vault".

--Any determined individual with a prybar will have nearly any Safe open within 60 seconds. (Check out YouTube for examples if you don't want to sleep well at night...)

--Layering of security measures is key, with a conventional Alarm/Motion/Camera system as well as concealment both effective layers of security in addition to the Safe itself.

--Best rule of thumb is to invest in Steel -- Use your $$$ to buy as thick of steel gauge for the body and door of the safe as possible. This is all that truly provides resilience to an attack. This also necessarily increases the weight of the safe. A decent Vault is going to be 1000 lbs plus. Anything less will fall under an RSC definition, typically.

--I would strongly recommend enlisting a local safe/security company who specializes in this area of work.

--Be sure to bolt the Safe to your foundation/floor once mounted. All Safes of even modest size have pre-drilled holes in the bottom, and not bolting it down will allow the Safe to be tipped and attacked from the side, where the Body is typically much thinner gauge steel than the Door.

--If the collection is too valuable to be held safely at home with peace of mind, use a Safety Deposit Box at the Bank.

I echo the above sentiments completely. Did a lot of homework too. Put all the good stuff in safe deposit box. Have house alarm and cameras.

[pawpawdiv9]

i got 2 safes. One is the Sentry Safe (in case I take some cards somewhere) and the other is a bigger electronic one.
I work in the construction field and know a bit about fire-ratings. Best is concrete-blocks(2-4hr if solid). Then the thick 1" inch stuff (core-board) used in elevator shafts. Then its your basic 5/8 sheetrock (1hr). Also, theres a mineral wool insulation that's reisitant (we call rock-wool)
Back to the safes. Buy the best rating...it just means it will stay below 350 degrees for that certain amount of time.
But keep in mind, paper discolors at 350 degrees (as I read somewhere)
So, keep in mind, not just the safe you select, think where your putting it as well.
Best bet- is the bank.

[silvor]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I am looking at this one:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stack-On...MB-E/202996367


Any help/assistance is always appreciated.

Don't get this safe. That lock is pure junk and the cheapest piece of crap I've ever seen. It's just thin plastic. Lots of reviews on the gun forums about the lock failing and a locksmith had to come out to get the guns out.

For guns, a lower level safe may be fine as even in a fire the gun will still be operable after fire and water. And gun parts are easily replaced But for documents, like cards, you need a better safe. Liberty makes safes that are intended for documents. There are other companies too.

[Frank A]

I bought my safe at Tractor Supply. They have sales on them a few times a year. Buy a Gun safe, it's bigger and you never know what you might want to put in it. Good safes also.

[rainier2004]

Lots of votes for liberty safes...I need to find a place for one as well.

Where in the house is the safest place against water and heat damage in a house?

[bmattioli]

Lots of great advise. I have one and it works for me. My father always told me to keep your mouth shut and never advertise what you have to strangers..

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

My father always told me to keep your mouth shut and never advertise what you have to strangers..

Best advice in this thread.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Where in the house is the safest place against water and heat damage in a house?

I am no expert, but I am in the middle of doing research. I want to put mine in the basement. The salesman told me to put the safe against an outside wall, in my case against the foundation in the basement. This is because fire and smoke will apparently navigate to the middle of a room first, and the walls will have less of it.

My research into this consists of one person, though, the dude who is selling me the safe.

[ZiggerZagger]

I'll just chip in again with my own discussions I had with a local security company this past year. As my prior comment read, if your primary goal is to reduce the chances of a successful burglary, then it's all about Steel thickness (gauge).
And it's the Steel gauge in 2 areas -- the Steel Plate in Door, and then also the Body of the Safe. (The Door Plate protects from bending attacks with crowbar/prybar, and the Body of the safe protects from cutting (blade and torch) attacks.)

It's probably most important to figure out what your own needs are. If it's just to discourage folks with sticky fingers then super basic is fine. If you've got a collection where the world won't end if it disappears, then a safe around $1,000 with the most steel you can buy might be ok.

If someone has a collection in the 6-figures though, boy I'd be investing in a serious safe if you're intending to keep it at home, meaning 10-gauge (lower number is better) thickness or better for the safe body and a 1/4" plate steel door plate. That's my only beef against Liberty, is that they are a little light on steel except for their one very top end model (The Presidential) which is a beast. Otherwise their safes top out at 12 or 11-gauge steel.

I would throw another company out there for folks to consider -- Fort Knox. www.ftknox.com
Top reputation in the industry, solid value, and at a slightly higher price point (2.5 - 4K for a sizeable safe), but they do not skimp on the materials. Highly customizable as well.

All points made by other folks are awesome as well, including layering your security and keeping your trap shut

[Duluth Eskimo]

Liberty safe. Period

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

I am no expert, but I am in the middle of doing research. I want to put mine in the basement. The salesman told me to put the safe against an outside wall, in my case against the foundation in the basement. This is because fire and smoke will apparently navigate to the middle of a room first, and the walls will have less of it.

My research into this consists of one person, though, the dude who is selling me the safe.

Just remember. . . .the typical homeowners policy excludes flood damage and the typical flood policy as far as I know excludes everything below ground. . .except the mechanicals. After Sandy I looked at my flood policy for the first time. Mine replaced boiler, furnace, washer, dryer. . .and absolutely nothing else. Don't think the insurance company will be particularly moved about your card collection you stored below ground.

[chalupacollects]

Typical flood coverage can cover other below ground items if claimed that sump pump failed or electric went out during a storm...

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Typical flood coverage can cover other below ground items if claimed that sump pump failed or electric went out during a storm...

What is covered in my basement?

Flood insurance covers your home's foundation elements and equipment that's necessary to support the structure (for example: furnace, water heaters, circuit breakers, etc.).

It's important to note that some items in your basement are covered under building coverage (like a furnace, hot water heater and circuit breaker) and others are covered under contents coverage that must be purchased in addition to building coverage (for example, your washer and dryer, or your freezer and the food in it).

The NFIP encourages people to purchase both building and contents coverage. Flood insurance does not cover basement improvements, such as finished walls, floors, ceilings or personal belongings that may be kept in a basement. For a complete list of what’s covered, view the Standard Flood Insurance Policy (SFIP) Forms.

[AJR]

I used to work for the leading supplier (and manufacturer) of safes and vault rooms for the jewelry industry, Empire Safe Company. Empire was founded in 1904 and is still family owned today.

It is imperative that anyone looking to protect their collection speak with Richard the CEO of Empire Safe Co. He is the hands-down security expert in the country when it comes to safes and vaults.

800-543-5412

http://empiresafe.com/

He will educate you if you want to be educated, he will sell you a quality safe if you just want to be sold...

You can purchase from a retail store (like home depot) but be very careful with safes and vaults... you get what you pay for and you want to work with an expert.

PS: Be prepared to spend some money. A real safe costs real dollars, most people do not think of this insurance properly... think of it as a percentage... what percent of the collection value will you spend to protect it?

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Just remember. . . .the typical homeowners policy excludes flood damage and the typical flood policy as far as I know excludes everything below ground. . .except the mechanicals. After Sandy I looked at my flood policy for the first time. Mine replaced boiler, furnace, washer, dryer. . .and absolutely nothing else. Don't think the insurance company will be particularly moved about your card collection you stored below ground.

Good points Steve. Never thought of that. Thanks...

[EldoEsq]

I have a Liberty safe. Love it.

An important thing to consider also is to buy a safe you can grow into. Whether its cards, coins, guns, etc., you do not want to buy something that fits your collection "just right." Like most, my "just right" has changed multiple times over my life! Buy the biggest and best you can afford!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Good points Steve. Never thought of that. Thanks...

Otherwise every time someone's basement flooded they would be seeing claims for rare stamp collections lost, rare cards washed away, comic books, etc. That's the reality of it. All of a sudden people's prized stuff would all be in the basement.

Of course if you live in an area with zero flood threat might be a non issue.

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I put minimal thought into it and bought a Sentry safe from Amazon. Brand has a solid reputation. Heavy as hell and some dude carried it into my house. Works fine.
Flood and fire rating? If my house burns to the ground my collection will be the least of my worries. And is insured. Flood a little more important as I did have a terrible flood on the other side of my home.

I cannot believe how deep we are into this thread and nobody has posted this video. I think safes present the illusion of safety, and if someone wants in, they'll get in and it may involve you nicely opening it for them against your will. They protect to varying degrees and stop probably nearly every petty criminal. That said, some are just a joke. The Sentry safe is a giant POS that if someone is even moderately motivated to go to work, they can:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TBhfnIu9lTw

[Snapolit1]

I had no illusion I was protecting myself from a home invasion. Really just to put a few things so they would be out of eyesight of workers and other visitors to my home.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

I cannot believe how deep we are into this thread and nobody has posted this video. I think safes present the illusion of safety, and if someone wants in, they'll get in and it may involve you nicely opening it for them against your will. They protect to varying degrees and stop probably nearly every petty criminal. That said, some are just a joke. The Sentry safe is a giant POS that if someone is even moderately motivated to go to work, they can:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TBhfnIu9lTw

2 Things:

1) It's a Sentry safe. Really I can stop right there and my point is made without saying another word.

2) It's an electronic locking mechanism which sucks as I mentioned in post #7 (although I tried to be nice about saying it).

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

2 Things:

1) It's a Sentry safe. Really I can stop right there and my point is made without saying another word.

2) It's an electronic locking mechanism which sucks as I mentioned in post #7 (although I tried to be nice about saying it).

Yes. I just want to make sure that people didnt just buy one at Wal Mart or amazon and think they were good for like $300. Spend the extra $500 or so and get something legit rather than flushing $300 down the drain. I mean i imagine there are low level safe thiefs that have this nailed down. Would be a shame to lose the lottery to them if they choose your house some night.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I had no illusion I was protecting myself from a home invasion. Really just to put a few things so they would be out of eyesight of workers and other visitors to my home.

+1

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by silvor

Don't get this safe.

For Christmas I bought myself an 8 gun Stack On gun cabinet from eBay. They were correct in calling it a cabinet as I compare it to a file cabinet. It's nothing like a safe. For keeping my guns away from young kids it suits my needs.
As for my cards, all of my "good" ones are in a large safe deposit box at Wells Fargo, $120 a year.