Not again! This is why I have a problem with PWCC!! Sorry for the rant!

[bobbyw8469]

Not really a problem, per se, but it definitely makes me want to approach things differently!!!

I try my best to run .99 cent auctions to eek out some fun in this hobby. I most definitely can not afford to lose $350-$400 per card every time I sell a card on Ebay. When I sell my '6' for $730 and PWCC sells their '7' for $2158. Well, maybe I should just cave in quit trying to sell these cards for .99 cents myself. Obviously buyers only care about PWCC, as evident by their bidders 70% acitivity with them......Anyway, sorry for the rant....just my frustration with this fine hobby....

[lug-nut]

I hear you, but they do get attention.

The problem that I would have if I listed with them is that their auctions have a zillion cards and I fear mine would get lost...but I'm almost out of the hobby anyways so if I lose a few bucks so be it, I know I've made it up over the years.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by lug-nut

I hear you, but they do get attention.

The problem that I would have if I listed with them is that their auctions have a zillion cards and I fear mine would get lost...but I'm almost out of the hobby anyways so if I lose a few bucks so be it, I know I've made it up over the years.

I hear you on that. I used to consign with them in the past. My discouragement came when I would consign some high grade PSA 9's. One was a rare, non sports issue where the pop report at the time was 1 of 5. In BOTH instances, my '9' was not the only '9' for sale by that at the same time, in the same auction. That had them both listed side by side (and of course, mine sells for less than the other '9'....in both cards). Just doesn't make them seem so special when they have multiples of the same card going at the same time.

[bobbyw8469]

The ironic thing...the winning bidder will probably consign with PWCC for their next auction where the card will bring $1,500!

[Bored5000]

A "7" of that card actually sold for for $2,398 at Clean Sweep in 2013. The only other listing of a "7" on VCP sold for $1,171 at Memory Lane earlier this year. That does seem to be a huge disparity in prices for that grade, but the PWCC price is actually less than the card has sold for in the past at that grade.

The only auction for a "6" since 2012 that VCP is showing is a sale for $1,020 at Heritage earlier this year. Yes, your card did go for a few hundred dollars less than the previous sale of a "6" earlier this year.

[iwantitiwinit]

You are complaining that PWCC gets higher prices than you get for comparable cards at different grades and also that you get lower grades when you submit/consign to PWCC than they get for other similarly graded cards. You're going to have to limit your complaint to one of the two situations before I can give you some sympathy, can't have things both ways maybe you're dually unluckly.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You are complaining that PWCC gets higher prices than you get for comparable cards at different grades and also that you get lower grades when you submit/consign to PWCC than they get for other similarly graded cards. You're going to have to limit your complaint to one of the two situations before I can give you some sympathy, can't have things both ways maybe you're dually unluckly.

Maybe I'm not dually unlucky? Maybe the luck is coexistent with each other and it was just one luck?

[RedsFan1941]

is that the lefty grove you posted here was lost in the mail?

[Snapolit1]

One grade difference on the right card can bring a big price differential at times. However ridiculous. Not telling you anything you don’t already know.

[edjs]

I remember that thread, I never saw that you posted resolution for that. Maybe people thought it was your stolen card? I wouldn't bid on a card I thought was stolen, but if I thought it was stolen, I would have notified you when I saw it. Did anyone alert you of it listed on e-bay?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by edjs

I remember that thread, I never saw that you posted resolution for that. Maybe people thought it was your stolen card? I wouldn't bid on a card I thought was stolen, but if I thought it was stolen, I would have notified you when I saw it. Did anyone alert you of it listed on e-bay?

Yes..same card.....I don't know if he wants me to out him here, but a fellow board member helped me recover it. It was in post office "limbo" an extra week, and no one knew where it was. It all of the sudden showed up. And I proceeded to lose $400 on it. That card was jinxed from the start.

[bobbyw8469]

PS - No one alerted me off Ebay. I'm just lamenting the fact that the only sellers who get bids are PWCC and Probstein. Let's face reality. Any other seller who lists cards for .99 cents just DOES NOT get the bids that those two gets. They run the risk of selling their items for peanuts. That's the facts.

[scooter729]

Bobby, I don't know you other than from your posts on here, but it always seems like there is some drama involved with all of your transactions. Either every one of your cards sells too low, or something is lost then mysteriously appears, or whatever. Seems like a lot of drama around every situation.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, potential buyers are aware of the drama which tends to follow you, and might shy away from your listings, to avoid getting sucked into a potential scenario? All it might take is one buyer to get soured and stay away, and maybe he would've caused the final price to be $900 instead of $730. Is it worth the posts complaining about things, to lose money on a sale?

Like I said, I don't recall any transactions with you and don't have any personal negative experience, but maybe pump the brakes a bit on the drama, as it certainly could have a negative impact by causing potential buyers to look elsewhere....

[Rhotchkiss]

Bobby, last night I lost out ona PWCC auction for a T206 Mathewson White Cap PSA 7. This was the same exact card that sold on Ebay by Greg Morris Auctions, a few weeks prior, for a tad under $8,000. I was the underbidder at $12,135!! The auction closed at $12,236. So, here PWCC gets over $4000 more for the same exact card as another (fairly large) Ebay seller got just a few weeks prior.

And, I had a very nice PSA 6 in the same card that I bought for $3,200 and recently traded as part of a larger trade. I doubt I could have gotten $3,200 out of the card if I listed it on ebay. It is a real pretty 6, but the premium from a 6 to a 7 (both equal to grade) is HUGE given the player and scarcity of the card. And, no doubt if I had listed the PSA 6 in an ebay auction, I would have gotten far less than if PWCC listed it; partly because I have no ebay presence (a mere 50 feedback) and PWCC does, and partly because, well, there just seems to be some odd stuff that sometimes occurs in those ebay auctions.....

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Bobby, I don't know you other than from your posts on here, but it always seems like there is some drama involved with all of your transactions. Either every one of your cards sells too low, or something is lost then mysteriously appears, or whatever. Seems like a lot of drama around every situation.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, potential buyers are aware of the drama which tends to follow you, and might shy away from your listings, to avoid getting sucked into a potential scenario? All it might take is one buyer to get soured and stay away, and maybe he would've caused the final price to be $900 instead of $730. Is it worth the posts complaining about things, to lose money on a sale?

Like I said, I don't recall any transactions with you and don't have any personal negative experience, but maybe pump the brakes a bit on the drama, as it certainly could have a negative impact by causing potential buyers to look elsewhere....

That appears to be a made up assumption, as the card that was "lost" was only the 2nd one "lost" in over a 20 year career. Pretty good track record. And for you to think I am "drama filled" tells me you know nothing about me at all. I am one of the LEAST drama filled people there is. I HATE drama! Im also one of the most professional people you can deal with. Just ask anyone who has done a group sub with me.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Bobby, last night I lost out ona PWCC auction for a T206 Mathewson White Cap PSA 7. This was the same exact card that sold on Ebay by Greg Morris Auctions, a few weeks prior, for a tad under $8,000. I was the underbidder at $12,135!! The auction closed at $12,236. So, here PWCC gets over $4000 more for the same exact card as another (fairly large) Ebay seller got just a few weeks prior.

And, I had a very nice PSA 6 in the same card that I bought for $3,200 and recently traded as part of a larger trade. I doubt I could have gotten $3,200 out of the card if I listed it on ebay. It is a real pretty 6, but the premium from a 6 to a 7 (both equal to grade) is HUGE given the player and scarcity of the card. And, no doubt if I had listed the PSA 6 in an ebay auction, I would have gotten far less than if PWCC listed it; partly because I have no ebay presence (a mere 50 feedback) and PWCC does, and partly because, well, there just seems to be some odd stuff that sometimes occurs in those ebay auctions.....

That is mind boggling to me. That one person has that much dominance over other sellers.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

One grade difference on the right card can bring a big price differential at times. However ridiculous. Not telling you anything you don’t already know.

right key is POP....a babe ruth psa 4 to psa 5 in a 1933 goudey brings much bigger price difference than a 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 etc....same with t206 cobb

heck even if its the same grade..centering can be a 50% difference on cards in the 1000 dollar rage and more etc

plus you complained when you consigned cards to pwcc you dont do well...but when you sell on your own you give the cards away you say......

[sycks22]

The irony behind "I hate drama", but start a thread complaining about something. Isn't that kind of the definition of drama?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

That is mind boggling to me. That one person has that much dominance over other sellers.

It is not mind boggling at all. There have been many threads on here explaining why.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right key is POP....a babe ruth psa 4 to psa 5 in a 1933 goudey brings much bigger price difference than a 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 etc....same with t206 cobb

heck even if its the same grade..centering can be a 50% difference on cards in the 1000 dollar rage and more etc

plus you complained when you consigned cards to pwcc you dont do well...but when you sell on your own you give the cards away you say......

When I sell myself, I give cards away...more than if they sold with PWCC. When my cards do poorly with PWCC, it is when they have multiples of the same card, same grade up for auction. Maybe there is an ulterior motive why they dont do well, but that has been discussed ad naseum. No need to rehash THAT aspect of it again.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

When I sell myself, I give cards away...more than if they sold with PWCC. When my cards do poorly with PWCC, it is when they have multiples of the same card, same grade up for auction. Maybe there is an ulterior motive why they dont do well, but that has been discussed ad naseum. No need to rehash THAT aspect of it again.

A return waiting to happen.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Leon

A return waiting to happen.

?? Not following you Leon.....

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by sycks22

The irony behind "I hate drama", but start a thread complaining about something. Isn't that kind of the definition of drama?

Good one Pete.... You are correct....Is this really drama though? Or just a disgruntled man bitching about something? Not sure the two are related. And I vote for the latter.

PS - I think I was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overdue as I haven't really bitched about anything in a long time. My apologies if my bitching is out of line.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Good one Pete.... You are correct....Is this really drama though? Or just a disgruntled man bitching about something? Not sure the two are related. And I vote for the latter.

PS - I think I was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overdue as I haven't really bitched about anything in a long time. My apologies if my bitching is out of line.

This doesn't have to be Happy Land where everything wonderful and sweet and every transaction is wonderful. I thought your "bitching" was hardly that. Frustration.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

?? Not following you Leon.....

If you sold "yourself" whomever bought you would return you.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Leon

If you sold "yourself" whomever bought you would return you.

LOL..touche....the old lady likes me enough...I have a few redeeming good qualities enough where she might not envoke the "grade guarantee".....but who knows.....I think they actually have game shows based on that premise.

[SAllen2556]

This card has been available as a BIN for weeks by a very reputable seller for $110, while the second card sold last night for $130.50. I was watching the PWCC card because I falsely assumed it would go for under $100. The buyer of the PWCC card had a feedback rating over 2000. This was not some novice buyer. I just don't get why someone would pay more for the same card that's been available for weeks for about 25% less than he ended up paying.

I know this card is very small potatoes, and it's not exactly apples to apples, but I wonder, overall, if it suggests some type of psychological effect that large, big name auctions have on people. The excitement of bidding in an auction where cards are selling for tens of thousands of dollars, and you're a part of that. I find it fascinating.

110.jpg
130.jpg

[bobbyw8469]

I call it the "PWCC Effect". It would make a great college thesis. It combines elements of sociology, psychology, and business all rolled into one. It is basically the same thing Mastro did years earlier, except on maybe a larger scale, and with an added element (The PWCC HE designation is sheer marketing genius at no added cost).

[rsst206]

Hi All
I have an observation and wondering if any other have had the same.
I purchased 50+ lots and it seems that the under bidder on a majority of the lots that were 5's was the same bidder with 100% bids on his auctions. That this bidder places a bid of between $69 and $72. w***r (183. Now if this bidder didn't place these bids i would have won them at half the price. Am i out of line thinking this way? Or maybe this bidder was thinking maybe he could get these Obaks and a great price and resell and placing these bids at $69-72 would yield more profits than $38. I know we place bids on what we are willing to pay and I a tickled to get these Obaks and what i feel is a good price but just thinking hmm. What if

Ronald Skaggs

[wdwfan]

If I were to consider selling my collection or any big cards, I'd consider consigning like that instead of listing them myself. Seems that gets more money than just me listing and selling on my own.

[jmb]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

This card has been available as a BIN for weeks by a very reputable seller for $110, while the second card sold last night for $130.50. I was watching the PWCC card because I falsely assumed it would go for under $100. The buyer of the PWCC card had a feedback rating over 2000. This was not some novice buyer. I just don't get why someone would pay more for the same card that's been available for weeks for about 25% less than he ended up paying.

I know this card is very small potatoes, and it's not exactly apples to apples, but I wonder, overall, if it suggests some type of psychological effect that large, big name auctions have on people. The excitement of bidding in an auction where cards are selling for tens of thousands of dollars, and you're a part of that. I find it fascinating.

Attachment 294742
Attachment 294743

The PSA card has much better centering. I'd rather have that card for an extra $20 too.

[ullmandds]

this is funny...talk about beating a dead horse. if you want your cards to sell as high as others with pwcc...you have to shill them...or have someone else shill them...its pretty simple.

well centered cards sell better than non well centered cards...this is fact...even more so lately than ever.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

this is funny...talk about beating a dead horse. if you want your cards to sell as high as others with pwcc...you have to shill them...or have someone else shill them...its pretty simple.

well centered cards sell better than non well centered cards...this is fact...even more so lately than ever.

I don't think centering was vastly different on the Lefty Grove '6' vs the Lefty Grove '7'. I think the phenomenon of a PWCC seller on the '7' versus a normal Joe Blow on the '6', made the $1400 and some change difference.

[Jeffrompa]

?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I find that people that put !!!!!! in the title of their threads usually invite drama

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

This card has been available as a BIN for weeks by a very reputable seller for $110, while the second card sold last night for $130.50. I was watching the PWCC card because I falsely assumed it would go for under $100. The buyer of the PWCC card had a feedback rating over 2000. This was not some novice buyer. I just don't get why someone would pay more for the same card that's been available for weeks for about 25% less than he ended up paying.

I know this card is very small potatoes, and it's not exactly apples to apples, but I wonder, overall, if it suggests some type of psychological effect that large, big name auctions have on people. The excitement of bidding in an auction where cards are selling for tens of thousands of dollars, and you're a part of that. I find it fascinating.

Attachment 294742
Attachment 294743

I had about 70 T202 PSA 5s....i can tell you the 75-200 price point happens all the time on those. If i listed a BIN...nobody would offer 150..but if several cards were listed in the same auction...for the convenience some buyers would just purchase a few (30 dollars over market) to go with the the rest of the cards they wanted. There are a lot more factors then who the seller is.

I can also tell you i had some of these t202 listed at a start price fo $120 with no takers...but then i'd list them again at 80 dollars and they would get bid to $150...

sometimes certain buyers are willing to pay more on a certain day..other times there are buyers that get a big windfall.......

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I find that people that put !!!!!! in the title of their threads usually invite drama

Sigh...you win Jake...I'll give you the last word.

[BruceinGa]

I placed bids on 11 T206's that were listed by PWCC. All had very nice centering and were graded by PSA between 5 and 6. Needless to say I didn't win a single card.
Several sold for much more than what I expected.
I guess cards that present nicely will sell for more that "ugly" cards.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by BruceinGa

I placed bids on 11 T206's that were listed by PWCC. All had very nice centering and were graded by PSA between 5 and 6. Needless to say I didn't win a single card.
Several sold for much more than what I expected.
I guess cards that present nicely will sell for more that "ugly" cards.

Was the Lefty Grove in the '6' ugly? I didn't think so? But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[greco827]

With PWCC and Probstein, or any large consignment firm for any hobby, they have three big things going for them. 1) They are reliable. It's not just some guy selling a card. 2) They do auctions, which combined with the reliability, draws people in. Who isn't watching a PSA 6 that's .99? They rely to some degree on the competitiveness of people bidding. 3) Listing a ton of cards at once is beneficial. It creates the one-stop-shop/"Oh, I get a discount on shipping for multiple items" effect. It works .... clearly.

Smaller sellers should just use a BIN with BO listing, know what you need to get, and go from there. If you bought a card for $400 more than you got for it, and you listed it shortly after getting it, then surely the idea was to make money from the go. Clearly auctions aren't working for you, so try something different. Unless you need to unload something quickly at the risk of doing so for less money, don't do an auction.

[botn]

Yes it does seem that Robert does a fair share of complaining but I can relate to his frustration here. I do not think there is a full grade difference technically speaking on the two cards but clearly there are lots of holder buyers and a 7 is a much more significant grade on this card.

I am often disappointed in most of my consignments because typically in a true auction format where cards are not protected the results are nothing to write home about unless you have cards that are hot. The answer is to not compare apples to oranges because that is what you are doing if you compare your ebay listing to that of a PWCC listing.

I have been parking a good deal of stuff in my eBay store and wait it out to get my price or at least something close to what I want.

[Jeffrompa]

Their cards sell for much more than anyone else’s on eBay . Good for them I only hope it’s for all the right reasons . Now we are all numb on this subject . Like other subjects that come up occassionly here .

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

Their cards sell for much more than anyone else’s on eBay . Good for them I only hope it’s for all the right reasons . Now we are all numb on this subject . Like other subjects that come up occassionly here .

Touche....to quote the late, great Jack Soo from Barney Miller. His last line on the show. "I have nothing to add".

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

Their cards sell for much more than anyone else’s on eBay . Good for them I only hope it’s for all the right reasons . Now we are all numb on this subject . Like other subjects that come up occassionly here .

More than other sellers on ebay yes, but not more than the major AHs.

I have tried to sell $2000 and $3000 and $5000 cards on eBay and gone nowhere. People are hesitant to wire some dude somewhere real money, even with good feedback. Say what you want about PWCC (and I often have), they are a known brand and people feel comfortable buying (or overpaying for) high end (HE) cards from them.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Was the Lefty Grove in the '6' ugly? I didn't think so? But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Uh, I believe that I stated T206's.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

More than other sellers on ebay yes, but not more than the major AHs.

I have tried to sell $2000 and $3000 and $5000 cards on eBay and gone nowhere. People are hesitant to wire some dude somewhere real money, even with good feedback. Say what you want about PWCC (and I often have), they are a known brand and people feel comfortable buying (or overpaying for) high end (HE) cards from them.

Ironically, a known brand that does "no marketing," "has no catalog," and "really doesn't do anything to sell your cards," according to some.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

More than other sellers on ebay yes, but not more than the major AHs.

I have tried to sell $2000 and $3000 and $5000 cards on eBay and gone nowhere. People are hesitant to wire some dude somewhere real money, even with good feedback. Say what you want about PWCC (and I often have), they are a known brand and people feel comfortable buying (or overpaying for) high end (HE) cards from them.

I find that hard to believe when eBay has your back 100%. So you’re saying more people trust PWCC and not eBay?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I find that hard to believe when eBay has your back 100%. So you’re saying more people trust PWCC and not eBay?

Ebay is just a venue...both I and PWCC sell on Ebay....for some reason, I truly believe we can have the EXACT same card....same grade....same centering, everything....99 times out of 100, the PWCC card will sell for more.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ebay is just a venue...both I and PWCC sell on Ebay....for some reason, I truly believe we can have the EXACT same card....same grade....same centering, everything....99 times out of 100, the PWCC card will sell for more.

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

Everyone knows the PWCC shill bids their higher end auctions and rolls the dice somebody will come along and snag it. If not, they buy the card then consign it to a big name AH and the cycle begins.

All I said was that particularly if you selling an expensive card, people are hesitant to buy off some outfit they are not familiar with. Common sense. While I know eBay is supposedly guaranteed, if I had to send 5,000 to some one with a few feedback and little history I'd be a nervous wreck.