NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-01-2016, 12:34 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I searched through the listings at one point where I thought any of the racing cards could be. Somehow I missed it. Do you have a link to it? I greatly dislike how I have trouble finding racing things on these sites.
I am sorry you were not aware of the T36 complete set at auction in REA. There was a mention of it earlier in this thread. The T36 set (25 cards) was also grouped together with a complete set (50 cards) of T37 "automobiles." The lot sold for $960 with the buyer's premium included. I wish the T36s would have been offered as a stand-alone item, but that seemed like a decent price for the two complete sets. When REA has any racing cards, they are usually located near the end of the auction listings.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40749

I know it isn't racing, but the the auction also had a lot that featured complete sets of the 1955 Topps "World of Wheels" cards and 1961 Topps "Sports Cars" cards. That lot sold for a little over $700 with the buyer's premium added in.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40791

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-01-2016 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-01-2016, 01:38 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Heck, who knows....maybe I did see it and forgot. It might have already been out of my price range and I forgot about it. I've definitely been searching old auctions just to see what they "go" for so that I can bank some money and be ready in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
I am sorry you were not aware of the T36 complete set at auction in REA. There was a mention of it earlier in this thread. The T36 set (25 cards) was also grouped together with a complete set (50 cards) of T37 "automobiles." The lot sold for $960 with the buyer's premium included. I wish the T36s would have been offered as a stand-alone item, but that seemed like a decent price for the two complete sets. When REA has any racing cards, they are usually located near the end of the auction listings.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40749

I know it isn't racing, but the the auction also had a lot that featured complete sets of the 1955 Topps "World of Wheels" cards and 1961 Topps "Sports Cars" cards. That lot sold for a little over $700 with the buyer's premium added in.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40791
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:22 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Forgot to post this one a few days ago when it went up on the site.

Second T36 Post for a Second Place Finisher.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-02-2016, 05:46 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

I was able to pick up two major cards in recent weeks -- both of the Lorenzen cards from the 1972 STP set. I wrote about those cards earlier in this thread, and the Lorenzen with car variety is arguably the holy grail of racing cards. Racing collector Jon Hardgrove over on the net54 non-sports forum has written in the past that the two Lorenzen cards are the rarest major American racing cards. In 26 years of collecting, Hardgrove had seen one example of the Lorenzen with car card and four examples of the Lorenzen portrait card.

The Lorenzen with car card is now the centerpiece of my collection. I was absolutely shocked when I saw the two cards go up for auction on eBay about a month ago, I put in a big snipe (for me) for the Lorenzen with car card and a smaller snipe for the portrait card. I won the auction for the "with car" card and lost the portrait card auction. The seller actually lives about 45 minutes from me, and I began exchanging PMs with him about where he found the cards and educating him about the set and how rare those cards are. I agreed to meet the seller and pick up the card rather than have him mail it.

Upon meeting the seller, I talked with him for a while about the set and how he found the cards. The seller is a long time seller on eBay and the Lorenzen cards were among a box of car stuff/racing stuff he bought for $40 at a live auction. The seller told me has had some decent finds before, but this was far and away the greatest "find" he has ever had.

The cards were included in a box of racing photographs from former Area Auto Racing News (a racing trade paper based in Trenton, N.J.) photographer Leroy Leibelsperger, who passed away in May of this year. The box also included numerous 1970s and 1980s photos of NASCAR Winston Cup drivers, which aren't worth much money.

The seller said he tried doing some research online for some information about the Lorenzen cards to see if they were worth anything, but could not find anything online about them. He then put them on eBay and instantly knew he had something special when people began sending him PMs wanting him to end the auction. One offer came in for $300 for both cards to end the auction ; another offer of $750 for both cards was also made.

The "find" included one of the Lorenzen with car cards and a small batch of the portrait variety. The cards look like they were put in a box in 1972 and have not been touched since then. Those were the only STP cards included in the box, so the original owner knew the Lorenzen cards were something special. The "with car" variety of the Lorenzen car is really the holy grail of racing cards, but I also bought one of the Lorenzen portrait cards from the seller even though I lost the initial auction.

I know 1972 is not old in terms of Net54 "finds," but it is amazing what pops up for sale once in a while when a collector passes away. Jon Hardgrove needed 26 years to find a Lorenzen with car card, and the seller that I bought a Richard Petty STP card from earlier this year had only seen one Lorenzen with car card in 20 years of searching.
PSA has graded only one of the Lorenzen with car cards and four of the Lorenzen portrait cards.








Last edited by Bored5000; 10-03-2016 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-02-2016, 08:06 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Congratulations! I love all of the backstory as well. I don't know a ton about the STP cards, nor do I have any. One thing I love and hate at the same time about the old racing cards is that we don't know a ton about them. I know that I've read discussion about distribution of the STP cards and there's no difinitive answer, if I am correct.

Recently I bought a set of the 1960 Parkhurst Indianapolis Speedway Winners/Hawes Wax Indy/V338-2 (it goes by many names) set. I just can't seem to find out much about the history of the set, the distribution (though I know it was in pack form), or much of anything.

Every kind of collecting has it's own unique challenges. I envy the vintage baseball guys in that, while prices can be high, there is generally more knowledge about the cards and also more of them available than we have in racing.

Again, congratulations on the acquisition! Thank you so much for sharing!
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-02-2016, 08:23 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
Congratulations! I love all of the backstory as well. I don't know a ton about the STP cards, nor do I have any. One thing I love and hate at the same time about the old racing cards is that we don't know a ton about them. I know that I've read discussion about distribution of the STP cards and there's no difinitive answer, if I am correct.

Recently I bought a set of the 1960 Parkhurst Indianapolis Speedway Winners/Hawes Wax Indy/V338-2 (it goes by many names) set. I just can't seem to find out much about the history of the set, the distribution (though I know it was in pack form), or much of anything.

Every kind of collecting has it's own unique challenges. I envy the vintage baseball guys in that, while prices can be high, there is generally more knowledge about the cards and also more of them available than we have in racing.

Again, congratulations on the acquisition! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thanks for the kind words, Kin. There is a definitive answer about distribution of the STP set. It was a free set available at the 1972 Daytona 500 and possibly at Talladega that year as well. One theory that has been speculated about the Lorenzen cards being so rare (none of the cards are common) is because he did not race in the Daytona 500 that year and went back into retirement after running just a handful of races that season. STP then moved their sponsorship to Richard Petty.

Here is an obituary of the original owner of the cards, racing photographer Leroy Leibelsperger. As I said earlier, Leibelsperger passed away in May of this year and the obituary talks about him following the eastern races of the NASCAR Winston Cup circuit as a photographer throughout the 1970s.

The really crazy thing is that Leibelsperger lived 15 minutes away from me and the cards sold at a live auction 10 minutes from my house. It makes me sick that the cards sold for $40 in the live auction while being mixed in with a bunch of other car stuff.

http://aarn.com/2016/05/26/obits-lon...leibelsperger/

Congratulations on the Hawes Wax set pick-up. This thread has not had any posts in a while, so i am glad to read you have also had a cool pick-up recently.

The thing I like about being a racing collector is that even an extreme rarity like the Lorenzen cards are at least somewhat attainable money-wise (I thought long and hard about how big a snipe I was willing to make). I was sort of expecting someone to go crazy with a $2,000-3,000 snipe because of how rare the card is. I would have been blown out of the water if that had happened. I told the seller that if this had been a extreme rarity of a baseball card from a popular set, that would mostly likely be a five or even six-figure card. Other extreme rarities like the Rocky Graziano card from the 1948 Leaf boxing set and the William McKinley card from the 1932 U.S. Caramel Presidents set are well over $10,000 cards.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-02-2016 at 09:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-03-2016, 11:56 AM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Eddie---

Sincere congratulations on your beautiful pick-ups, and additionally, to the fascinating stories you conveyed associated with them. The PMs sent to end the auction were something else. Decent money there. You just never know; sometimes what one is selling actually has a ferocious market for them. Those stories and interwoven juicy tidbits were what I constantly tried to bring to my book on post-war regional / food issues, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN.

While I do not collect racing cardboard, preferring 1/43 scale models of the cars, and videos such as the DVDs from Rare Sportsfilms of the actual races where these racing greats established their legends, your dogged persistence is the same as mine for what I pursue.

Anyway, nice going, Eddie. Thanks again for a super post, bro!

---Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-03-2016, 12:21 PM
smtjoy's Avatar
smtjoy smtjoy is offline
Scott Mt. Joy
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,020
Default

I always liked this exhibit-

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-04-2016, 03:06 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Eddie---

Sincere congratulations on your beautiful pick-ups, and additionally, to the fascinating stories you conveyed associated with them. The PMs sent to end the auction were something else. Decent money there. You just never know; sometimes what one is selling actually has a ferocious market for them. Those stories and interwoven juicy tidbits were what I constantly tried to bring to my book on post-war regional / food issues, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN.

While I do not collect racing cardboard, preferring 1/43 scale models of the cars, and videos such as the DVDs from Rare Sportsfilms of the actual races where these racing greats established their legends, your dogged persistence is the same as mine for what I pursue.

Anyway, nice going, Eddie. Thanks again for a super post, bro!

---Brian Powell
Thanks so much for the kind words, Brian. I really appreciate that. The reason I know the cards came specifically from deceased racing photographer Leroy Leibelsperger is that the seller showed me Leibelsperger's Area Auto Racing News press card that was among the other identifying items that were in the box he bought at auction.

There are only a handful of $500+ individual racing cards, although it does make me throw up in my mouth a bit when an occasional Danica Patrick autographed 1/1 manufactured rarity will get up close to that figure in an auction. Much like the Graziano card in the '48 Leaf boxing set and the McKinley card in the 1932 U.S. Caramel Presidents set, there is no way that a non racing collector would ever guess that the Lorenzen with car card in particular is so sought after.

As I said before, I love the obscure and impossible to find cards. There is nothing wrong with collecting T206s or '33 Goudeys, but I could never afford to go after five or six-figure baseball rarities. Most of my collection is pretty obscure, so I am not a PSA registry guy. But the owner of the one full set of 1972 STP cards on the PSA registry even has a comment with his set that very few people own the Lorenzen with car card.

http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr....aspx?s=135628

I didn't really expect the seller to tell me what he paid for the box at auction. When he told me he had no idea what he had until people began sending him PMs to end the eBay auctions, I told him that I was sure he did pretty well for himself with his purchase. He was almost disbelieving when he told me he paid $40 for the lot and did not even know if the cards were worth anything at all.

Fred Lorenzen is still alive today, although he is 81 years old and battling dementia. His family has stated in recent years that they believe his dementia was caused by the numerous concussions he sustained over the years and the fact that he never took time off following those concussions to heal. Lorenzen's daughter has thanked Dale Earnhardt Jr. several times in recent years on her Facebook page for bringing the issue of concussions to light.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...-65-6-roa0214/

Earnhardt Jr. and Lorenzen have both pledged to donate their brains to Christopher Nowinski's Concussion Legacy Foundation. Lorenzen's family strongly believes he suffers from CTE much like many former NFL players. Nowinski has said in the past that he is very familiar with Lorenzen's story.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...tion/87185360/

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-04-2016 at 03:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-04-2016, 03:23 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smtjoy View Post
I always liked this exhibit-

That is a neat card, Scott. I was not aware it existed, but I was at least somewhat familiar with John Cobb because I remembered the news story about the wreckage of his boat being located on the bottom of Loch Ness 50 years after Cobb's fatal accident.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...Loch-Ness.html
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 10-04-2016, 10:31 AM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Eddie, Thank you, friend, for an amazing post. Fascinating. We can be happy for the guy who bought the box for only $40, since he offered those treasured Fast Freddie Lorenzen cards on eBay, of which you now own. As I wrote before, this affair has made for a great collector sea story. When you search for something for 20 years, the story is a good one.

I am very sorry to hear about Fred's dementia. He was so good for a long stretch. I vaguely recall during the first or second year of his comeback, in '70 or '71, he had a horrific crash that went on for several seconds. It was gruesome. He survived, but I imagine one of his main concussions would have happened in that particular accident.

SMTJOY---John Cobb was something else. I could go on and on about Mr. Cobb. One time at a gathering of British racing drivers, writers, and dignitaries, the esteemed Sir Malcolm Campbell was the main speaker. Well, by this time Mr. Cobb had obliterated Campbell's extremely hard-earned records with the Railton pictured in your Exhibit. Furthermore, Cobb had done some record-breaking in a 24-litre Sunbeam-Railton, such as the highest average speed for 24 hours, and routinely trounced all rivals in that exotic special at the Brits' beloved Brooklands track. Mr. Cobb was now the darling of the racing and record-mad British public. Also, John was a very quiet, unassuming gentleman who would not brag to save his life, while Campbell was a demanding, arrogant, extremely proud asshole. He was very brave, however, and he very much had earned the reputation he had as a Speed King. Still....

Well, at this moment I cannot recall the lurid details, but just the presence of Mr. Cobb in the audience so unnerved Sir Malcolm that he could not go on with his speech. I imagine John Cobb's records left Campbell seething with envy, and he flat out lost his composure and concentration.

One of the favorite models in my collection is a pretty rare, exquisite 1/43rd hand-built of John Cobb's massive Railton that I mentioned. Now that Brooklands is gone, Cobb will always have the lap record on that track--about 143 MPH!!. The tires were so slender, and he wore no seat belt, and of course stabilizing wings were a little over 30 years away----PURE DANGER. The great gentleman said driving that beautiful beast at Brooklands was like leaning out of a very tall building to see how far you could lean without falling.

Verbosity is setting in. Best go.

Again, guys, thanks for posting the Lorenzens and the John Cobb Exhibit ---Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-04-2016 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-05-2016, 07:20 AM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

After another T36 card was delivered yesterday, I wrote this post that I'd been working on in my head for a couple of weeks. Basically I talk about the frustrations of not knowing about my set and the limited findings I have so far on how many variations of each of the 35 cards there are. Just thought I'd share if anyone is interested.

Frustration in the Unknown
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:04 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
After another T36 card was delivered yesterday, I wrote this post that I'd been working on in my head for a couple of weeks. Basically I talk about the frustrations of not knowing about my set and the limited findings I have so far on how many variations of each of the 35 cards there are. Just thought I'd share if anyone is interested.

Frustration in the Unknown
Interesting reading on your blog, Kin. I understand the point you are making about the lack of information regarding distribution with many racing sets. Baseball is king when it comes to card collecting, and the T206 set has tons of people interested in that set. But many of the more obscure sets suffer from the same lack of knowledge as racing cards.

My "best" or toughest baseball card is probably a 1949 Lummis Peanut Butter card of Willie "Puddinhead" Jones. The Lummis Peanut Butter set has been discussed numerous times on here, and there doesn't seem to be any real consensus as to exactly how the cards were distributed. Some collectors speculated that the cards were attached to the outside of peanut butter containers, while others have said they were handed out as a movie theater giveaway over a very limited time.

Racing really is lucky to have Jon Hardgrove as a collector. So much of what I know about various sets, I have learned simply be reading his posts.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-05-2016 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:14 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Eddie, Thank you, friend, for an amazing post. Fascinating. We can be happy for the guy who bought the box for only $40, since he offered those treasured Fast Freddie Lorenzen cards on eBay, of which you now own. As I wrote before, this affair has made for a great collector sea story. When you search for something for 20 years, the story is a good one.

I am very sorry to hear about Fred's dementia. He was so good for a long stretch. I vaguely recall during the first or second year of his comeback, in '70 or '71, he had a horrific crash that went on for several seconds. It was gruesome. He survived, but I imagine one of his main concussions would have happened in that particular accident.

SMTJOY---John Cobb was something else. I could go on and on about Mr. Cobb. One time at a gathering of British racing drivers, writers, and dignitaries, the esteemed Sir Malcolm Campbell was the main speaker. Well, by this time Mr. Cobb had obliterated Campbell's extremely hard-earned records with the Railton pictured in your Exhibit. Furthermore, Cobb had done some record-breaking in a 24-litre Sunbeam-Railton, such as the highest average speed for 24 hours, and routinely trounced all rivals in that exotic special at the Brits' beloved Brooklands track. Mr. Cobb was now the darling of the racing and record-mad British public. Also, John was a very quiet, unassuming gentleman who would not brag to save his life, while Campbell was a demanding, arrogant, extremely proud asshole. He was very brave, however, and he very much had earned the reputation he had as a Speed King. Still....

Well, at this moment I cannot recall the lurid details, but just the presence of Mr. Cobb in the audience so unnerved Sir Malcolm that he could not go on with his speech. I imagine John Cobb's records left Campbell seething with envy, and he flat out lost his composure and concentration.

One of the favorite models in my collection is a pretty rare, exquisite 1/43rd hand-built of John Cobb's massive Railton that I mentioned. Now that Brooklands is gone, Cobb will always have the lap record on that track--about 143 MPH!!. The tires were so slender, and he wore no seat belt, and of course stabilizing wings were a little over 30 years away----PURE DANGER. The great gentleman said driving that beautiful beast at Brooklands was like leaning out of a very tall building to see how far you could lean without falling.

Verbosity is setting in. Best go.

Again, guys, thanks for posting the Lorenzens and the John Cobb Exhibit ---Brian Powell
Thanks again for the comment, Brian. I am 43 years old, so Lorenzen's career pre-dates me. But I have been around racing all my life. My parents started taking me to local dirt-track racing when I was just a few months old.

I know that racing on the Cup series in the 1960s was a different time and not much emphasis was placed on running the entire schedule, but it is still amazing that Lorenzen's entire Cup career was just 158 races; he won 26 times in just those 158 starts.

I had previously read that Lorenzen was a close friend of Fireball Roberts, and that Roberts' death from a fiery crash at the 1964 World 600 was one of the reasons Lorenzen initially retired in 1967. I know Ned Jarrett also retired young, but it's hard to believe Lorenzen was just 32 years old when he initially retired.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:42 PM
rgpete
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ronnie Peterson

Not a card, but information about his racing on a box for the diecast of Ronnie Peterson the "SuperSwede" I had this toy 40 yrs +,and the diecast is like new but the box not
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Swede 001.jpg (75.3 KB, 421 views)

Last edited by rgpete; 10-05-2016 at 03:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-05-2016, 03:02 PM
rgpete
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The diecast
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ron 003.jpg (69.2 KB, 414 views)
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-10-2016, 11:17 AM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

One of these is a part of the REA auction...well, it's barely started and already out of my stratosphere.

1912 T227 "Series of Champions" Car, Horse, and Motorboat Racing PSA-Graded Collection (4)


Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Here's a T227 Mulford. I have a lot from the Auto Drivers series and will try and post some scans later in the week. I guess the Soccer/Golf/Cricket section might be a good place to add auto and horse racing cards...
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-10-2016, 02:29 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgpete View Post
Not a card, but information about his racing on a box for the diecast of Ronnie Peterson the "SuperSwede" I had this toy 40 yrs +,and the diecast is like new but the box not
Ron, thanks for posting your box and toy of the Super Swede, Ronnie Peterson. He and Mario Andretti were so dominating in 1978 when Mario won the F1 World Championship.

My favorite victory of Ronnie's involved a sports car race. He was among the team members for Scuderia Ferrari in 1972. That year was the first of two Ferrari ran its dominating 312PB. Each race Ferrari fought it out with their only main rival, Alfa-Romeo. Though the Ferraris won every race, the Alfas were superb, but just did not have the reliability of the Ferraris. A fabulous documentary of that 1972 World Championship Sports Car series was done by American filmmaker Michael Keyser, THE SPEED MERCHANTS. I have loved this on VHS, and need to update to DVD.

Love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronnie is shown many instances, though not interviewed.

However, he and his co-driver won one of the toughest, most respected races on the calendar. It was the 1000 Kilometers of the Nurburgring, in Germany. This track was a little over 14 miles long, with an elevation differential of 1,000 feet from lowest to highest point. There were over 180 turns to each lap. It was one of the most challenging of all circuits in history, and often the one the driver's enjoyed the most.

It was also one of the most deadly.....

Like F1 Grand Prix racing, when it rains, the race simply continues, more dangerous than ever, though the drivers pit for rain tires of course.

Anyway, Ronnie and his co-driver beat the second place Alfa-Romeo by a little over 5 minutes. Their winning speed on that tough track was a staggering 105.57 MPH!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yes, it was overcast for part of the race, and it rained.

Ronnie Peterson---I salute your memory.

Thanks again, bro, for posting. Hope you didn't mind hearing more on Mr. Peterson. I own a few 1/43 models of the 1972-73 Ferrari 312PBs, and one of the Alfas. Love 'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

---Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-15-2016 at 07:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-10-2016, 02:39 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Eddie, I'll check my Encyclopedia of Auto Racing Greats, by Robert Cutter, to see if there's any reason given why Freddie retired for the first time at 32.

Funny, I used an excellent story in Mr. Cutter's book to illustrate a point in my newly-released book on postwar regional / food issues, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Yep, there was a story about early Ferraris that helped me with the key chapter on the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle!

I would have liked to do a chapter on the Lummis Peanut Butter Phillies. For the same reason you mention I decided against it. If it could be determined precisely how they were issued, I might have done one. What we needed was some former youngster from Philly who back in the day was "nuts about them" and made a lot of lifetime memories collecting them one-by-one to try to build a set. I never found such a person. Eddie, you know, there's a decent chance that the Lummis cards were available via both peanut butter containers and movie theater "free prize". Simply to get the word out to BUY MORE DELICIOUS LUMMIS PEANUT BUTTER!

Getting verbose again. Bye. ---Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-12-2016, 12:40 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Eddie, I'll check my Encyclopedia of Auto Racing Greats, by Robert Cutter, to see if there's any reason given why Freddie retired for the first time at 32.

Funny, I used an excellent story in Mr. Cutter's book to illustrate a point in my newly-released book on postwar regional / food issues, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Yep, there was a story about early Ferraris that helped me with the key chapter on the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle!

I would have liked to do a chapter on the Lummis Peanut Butter Phillies. For the same reason you mention I decided against it. If it could be determined precisely how they were issued, I might have done one. What we needed was some former youngster from Philly who back in the day was "nuts about them" and made a lot of lifetime memories collecting them one-by-one to try to build a set. I never found such a person. Eddie, you know, there's a decent chance that the Lummis cards were available via both peanut butter containers and movie theater "free prize". Simply to get the word out to BUY MORE DELICIOUS LUMMIS PEANUT BUTTER!

Getting verbose again. Bye. ---Brian Powell
Great post, Brian. Maybe there was something else at play with regard to Fred Lorenzen's initial retirement, but i have read in the past that he was distraught at the death of close friend Fireball Roberts in 1964. Lorenzen ran only five races in 1967 and 11 races in '66 before retiring for the first time..

Author Art Garner came out with an amazing book in 2014 about the tragic 1964 Indianapolis 500 entitled "Black Noon: The Year They Stopped the Indy 500." The book is as good as the Amazon reviews would have one believe. One thing I did not realize until reading Garner's book was that the fiery crash at Charlotte that eventually claimed the life of Fireball Roberts occurred just six days before the Indy inferno that claimed the lives of Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald. Fireball Roberts clung to life for some two months after his crash at Charlotte.

During the final two months of his life, Roberts would occasionally have days during which he was relatively lucid. On such days, he repeatedly asked his wife and doctors who won the Indy 500 that year. Roberts' wife and doctors repeatedly told him that A.J. Foyt won Indy, but they never revealed to him that the race was marred by a massive fire or that Sachs and MacDonald perished in the race.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Noon-Ye.../dp/1250017777

Retiring young was not completely unheard of among Cup drivers in the 1960s. Ned Jarrett was just 34 when he retired. I have seen various interviews with Jarrett over the years in which he expressed regret at retiring so young. At the time, many drivers believed that 35 was old for a racer just like it was for players in the stick and ball sports. Jarrett has said many times over the years that he wished he would have known that racers could still be competitive in their 40s and even their 50s.

I don't know if you saw this, but REA actually has a full set of Lummis Peanut Butter cards at auction right now. I figure those had to be assembled in 1949 and not in the decades that followed. PSA's population report only lists 13 total Lummis cards among all 12 players. I bought my Lummis Peanut Butter card (which used to be in Leon's collection) from long-time collector John Rumirez. As I exchanged PMs with Rumirez, he wrote me that he has been collecting for 40 years and still only has 9/12 cards in the Lummis Peanut Butter set.

There was a Lummis thread on here in the past in which a poster either remembered or was told many decades ago that the cards were distributed as a movie theater giveaway at the very least.

Last year's REA auction included a Richie Ashburn Lummis card (which is a rookie card for Ashburn). That card, while nicer than the Ashburn included in the set currently at REA, sold for $5,000 as a single card. I am interested to see where the REA set closes this year. Maybe I am way high or way low, but I'm guessing $10,000 for the set.

Lummis Peanut Butter Cards are rare as hell, but at least they are somewhat attainable to small-time collectors when they do show up. Felin's Franks cards are another great Philadelphia rarity, and they are completely out of my price range when they do show up. Huggins and Scott had a raw Felin's Franks card of Bobby Morgan that sold for $2,868 last year. REA currently has a Bobby Morgan Felin's Franks card at auction that is already at $1,200 with the buyer's premium. As I said earlier in the thread, that is one of the reasons I like chasing legendary rarities of racing cards or other non baseball cards.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-12-2016 at 12:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-12-2016, 01:05 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
One of these is a part of the REA auction...well, it's barely started and already out of my stratosphere.

1912 T227 "Series of Champions" Car, Horse, and Motorboat Racing PSA-Graded Collection (4)
Kin, if you keep an eye out, the Mulford card from the T227 set does pop up at a more reasonable price from time to time. All four of the cards in that REA lot are either the"highest graded" for that particular card or tied for "highest graded" honors for that particular card. A couple registry collectors are most likely what is driving up the price of that lot.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-15-2016 at 12:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-14-2016, 05:39 PM
rgpete
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Ron, thanks for posting your box and toy of the Super Swede, Ronnie Peterson. He and Mario Andretti were so dominating in 1978 when Mario won the F1 World Championship.

My favorite victory of Ronnie's involved a sports car race. He was among the team members for Scuderia Ferrari in 1972. That year was the first of two Ferrari ran its dominating 312PB. Each race Ferrari fought it out with their only main rival, Alfa-Romeo. Though the Ferraris won every race, the Alfas were superb, but just did not have the reliability of the Ferraris. A fabulous documentary of that 1972 World Championship Sports Car series was done by American filmmaker Michael Keyser, THE SPEED MERCHANTS. I have loved this on VHS, and need to update to DVD.

Love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronnie is shown many instances, though not interviewed.

However, he and his co-driver won one of the toughest, most respected races on the calendar. It was the 1000 Kilometers of the Nurburgring, in Germany. This track was a little over 14 miles long, with an elevation differential of 1,000 feet from lowest to highest point. There were over 180 turns to each lap. It was one of the most challenging of all circuits in history, and often the one the driver's enjoyed the most.

It was also one of the most deadly.....

Like F1 Grand Prix racing, when it rains, the race simply continues, more dangerous than ever, though the drivers pit for rain tires of course.

Anyway, Ronnie and his co-driver beat the second place Alfa-Romeo by a little over 5 minutes. Their winning speed on that tough track was a staggering 105.57 MPH!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yes, it was overcast for part of the race, and it rained.

Ronnie Peterson---I salute your memory.

Thanks again, bro, for posting. Hope you didn't mind hearing more on Mr. Peterson. I own a few 1/43 models of the Ferraris, and one of the Alfas. Love 'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

---Brian Powell
Not at all Brian, Thanks for that information about Ronnie
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-15-2016, 04:31 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 657
Default T36 Master Set

Hi Kin!

loved your article!

I collect other non sports & sports sets that are found with Hassan and Mecca Backs. I suspect the T36 Master set would consist of 100 cards:

Mecca F30 - 25 cards
Mecca F649 - 25 cards
Hassan F30 - 25 cards
Hassan F649 - 25 cards

good stuff...

Cliff
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-15-2016, 08:01 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Eddie---

So much to comment on, my friend. Too bad we can't meet for pizza, but then the food would get cold as we'd become engrossed in our various topics of conversation.

Eddie, if you are unaware of this book, you simply must get a hold of a copy of FORD--THE DUST AND THE GLORY: A Racing History 1901 - 1967 by Leo Levine. It is now considered a "volume 1", since I believe it was expanded and a second volume written to cover post-1967 racing.

Eddie, this book is the definitive work on Ford racing of that time period. You would find an absolute wealth of info on Fast Freddie. I loved the book in high school, and of course it went out of print. After-market copies were hot and not cheap. I remember them running a hundred bucks, this being before eBay. Finally, the book was reprinted, amid much fanfare. The reprinted price was $40, I think.

My reaction---SOLD.

At this moment I cannot find my copy, but you would love the stories and facts that are jam-packed in that book. Fast Freddie's FORD era would all be covered in detail. Also, Ford's Indianapolis program, the Lincolns at the Carrera Pan Americana, and their massive FORD GT racing sports car program are covered in intimate detail. The latter was my reason for buying this very thick book. Freddie, just as Fireball Roberts, did not win championships; rather, he won a lot of big races with huge purses. I don't follow the PGA golf series, but they call the big tournaments "majors"; the Fireball and Fast Freddie were cleaning up back then on the far majority of the major races.

My advice to you, Eddie, is to go to your local public library. If they do not have the book, work with their inter-library loan service and get it that way. Then you can read and browse to your heart's content, to see if you would want to own your own copy. Me, I love to read and then re-read my favorite sections. I find myself doing this with my own book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN.

Yeah, I well recall REA's offering that gorgeous Lummis Richie Ashburn last fall. I had my son download a scan of the card. You know, REA has changed their computer site software. You cannot download a scan now, save for an out-of-focus image. Guess I cannot blame them. Regardless, those Lummis cards are something else. I well recall them being INTENSELY WANTED by the pioneer collectors. One reason, of course, is that they were collecting everything.

Can you imagine?

Anyway, I had to pick and choose, because though I got in on what would be considered today "the ground floor" of the emerging organised adult card collecting hobby, prices escalated quickly, and the regionals were often the first to spike sharply, given the old adage of "supply and demand". The supply even back then was minuscule, so it took the most prime of trade bait, or bigger and bigger bucks to consummate a deal. I simple didn't have the big bucks nor the connections---til later.

Now to dear Ned Jarrett. It was Ned who courageously risked his life to pull Fireball Roberts from the inferno his Ford had become after it flipped over at Charlotte.

I vividly remember the Ford book I previously discussed going into why 1964 was going to be a very dangerous year. After 1955, the year 1964 was the worst. Besides the Fireball Roberts accident, and the horrific worst-looking-ever accident at Indianapolis, early in the year two-time defending NASCAR champion Joe Weatherly lost his life in an accident at Riverside. Then late in the year, '64 Indy 500 pole-setter Bobby Marshman crashed to his death at an Arizona track testing a car, as I vaguely recall.

Racing fans today cannot begin to truly understand what it was like when I was a child in the 60s, and before. A top racing star or two were bound "to get it" during the racing year. I refer collectively to racing sports cars, Formula 1, Indianapolis, and NASCAR. Of course, the cars were as much the stars as the drivers; hence, that is why I've collected 1/43rd models of them for over 50 years, along with books and videos covering the history of the races, cars, and the drivers.

Here I go again. Sorry. Best regards, Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-15-2016 at 08:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-15-2016, 10:53 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Eddie---

So much to comment on, my friend. Too bad we can't meet for pizza, but then the food would get cold as we'd become engrossed in our various topics of conversation.

Eddie, if you are unaware of this book, you simply must get a hold of a copy of FORD--THE DUST AND THE GLORY: A Racing History 1901 - 1967 by Leo Levine. It is now considered a "volume 1", since I believe it was expanded and a second volume written to cover post-1967 racing.

Eddie, this book is the definitive work on Ford racing of that time period. You would find an absolute wealth of info on Fast Freddie. I loved the book in high school, and of course it went out of print. After-market copies were hot and not cheap. I remember them running a hundred bucks, this being before eBay. Finally, the book was reprinted, amid much fanfare. The reprinted price was $40, I think.

My reaction---SOLD.

At this moment I cannot find my copy, but you would love the stories and facts that are jam-packed in that book. Fast Freddie's FORD era would all be covered in detail. Also, Ford's Indianapolis program, the Lincolns at the Carrera Pan Americana, and their massive FORD GT racing sports car program are covered in intimate detail. The latter was my reason for buying this very thick book. Freddie, just as Fireball Roberts, did not win championships; rather, he won a lot of big races with huge purses. I don't follow the PGA golf series, but they call the big tournaments "majors"; the Fireball and Fast Freddie were cleaning up back then on the far majority of the major races.

My advice to you, Eddie, is to go to your local public library. If they do not have the book, work with their inter-library loan service and get it that way. Then you can read and browse to your heart's content, to see if you would want to own your own copy. Me, I love to read and then re-read my favorite sections. I find myself doing this with my own book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN.

Yeah, I well recall REA's offering that gorgeous Lummis Richie Ashburn last fall. I had my son download a scan of the card. You know, REA has changed their computer site software. You cannot download a scan now, save for an out-of-focus image. Guess I cannot blame them. Regardless, those Lummis cards are something else. I well recall them being INTENSELY WANTED by the pioneer collectors. One reason, of course, is that they were collecting everything.

Can you imagine?

Anyway, I had to pick and choose, because though I got in on what would be considered today "the ground floor" of the emerging organised adult card collecting hobby, prices escalated quickly, and the regionals were often the first to spike sharply, given the old adage of "supply and demand". The supply even back then was minuscule, so it took the most prime of trade bait, or bigger and bigger bucks to consummate a deal. I simple didn't have the big bucks nor the connections---til later.

Now to dear Ned Jarrett. It was Ned who courageously risked his life to pull Fireball Roberts from the inferno his Ford had become after it flipped over at Charlotte.

I vividly remember the Ford book I previously discussed going into why 1964 was going to be a very dangerous year. After 1955, the year 1964 was the worst. Besides the Fireball Roberts accident, and the horrific worst-looking-ever accident at Indianapolis, early in the year two-time defending NASCAR champion Joe Weatherly lost his life in an accident at Riverside. Then late in the year, '64 Indy 500 pole-setter Bobby Marshman crashed to his death at an Arizona track testing a car, as I vaguely recall.

Racing fans today cannot begin to truly understand what it was like when I was a child in the 60s, and before. A top racing star or two were bound "to get it" during the racing year. I refer collectively to racing sports cars, Formula 1, Indianapolis, and NASCAR. Of course, the cars were as much the stars as the drivers; hence, that is why I've collected 1/43rd models of them for over 50 years, along with books and videos covering the history of the races, cars, and the drivers.

Here I go again. Sorry. Best regards, Brian Powell
Another great post, Brian. I have about a dozen books sitting on my nightstand right now. I feel like Henry Bemis in the old "Time Enough at Last" Twilight Zone episode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_at_Last

I am familiar with both Joe Weatherly's fatal accident at Riverside due to not having a shoulder harness or window net and Ned Jarrett pulling Fireball Robert out of his car at Charlotte.

A couple other notes that really stood out to me from Art Garner's amazing book on the tragic '64 500:

* The iconic photo of A.J. Foyt holding the just-printed newspaper front page with the giant headline "Foyt Winner in 500, Sachs, MacDonald Die." has a bit of a back story. The newspaper was thrust into Foyt's hands as soon as he climbed out of his car in Victory Lane. Foyt initially had a huge smile on his face -- until looking down and seeing the headline. He then asked his wife if the headline was true. When she said yes, Foyt's expression instantly changed to one of sadness.

* After the crash, Indy rookie Bobby Unser, who was knocked out of the race in the crash, walked up and down pit road and told car owners that if their drivers did not have the stomach to restart the race, he was willing to take their place.

* Famed Charlotte Motor Speedway promoter Humpy Wheeler attended the race as a young P.R. rep for Firestone. From his vantage point at the opposite end of the speedway, Wheeler initially thought that the grandstands were on fire or that a car had gone into the grandstands. He initially believed the crash was a replay of the 1955 Le Mans disaster.

The complete set of Lummis Peanut Butter cards at REA is already at $6,000 with the juice. Maybe I am way low with my guess of $10,000 as the ending price.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-16-2016 at 01:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 10-15-2016, 11:18 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Another racing book I have read in recent years that is simply phenomenal is Dr. Steve Olvey's book "Rapid Response: My Life as a Motor Racing Life Saver." The book is kinda pricey right now on Amazon, but it does show up from time to time for under $20. IIRC, I paid $12-13 for my copy a couple years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Respons...ds=steve+olvey

The book begins with Olvey talking about saving Alex Zanardi's life after Zanardi's double amputation in 2001, and Zanardi wrote the foreword for the book. Olvey was the chief medical director for CART from 1978-2001, and he could not believe what he saw when he reached Zanardi's car. Double amputations above the knee are almost always fatal in the field because a patient will bleed out in less than 90 seconds. Olvey was almost certain Zanardi would die on the helicopter flight to the nearest trauma center. Olvey talked about every time the CART series visited a new venue, he would immediately search out the nearest hospital and the nearest major trauma center in case something disastrous occurred.

Nearly all of the major crashes in CART during 1980s and 1990s are discussed in a tasteful manner. Olvey talks about how drivers were viewed as expandable and fools who deserved whatever they got when he first began attending races in the 1960s. Who knew that Swede Savage actually died from a bad blood transfusion following his '73 Indy crash? But the book also contains lots of stories with happier endings. For example, I knew Rick Mears' feet-crushing crash at Sanair (Que.) in 1984 was bad, but I never knew that French-Canadian doctors initially wanted to amputate both of Mears' feet. Mears subsequently came back to win Indy twice more after doctors initially wanted to amputate his feet.

Olvey mentioned being in the grandstands at Indy in 1964 and being momentarily relieved to learn that Eddie Sachs was merely "fatally injured." Olvey's father then broke the news to him of what the term "fatally injured" meant.

Olvey also characterized NASCAR as such as donkey series safety wise in the 1970s and '80s that A.J. Foyt often paid Olvey out of his own pocket to accompany him to NASCAR races Foyt competed in. Due to cronyism and just outright cheapness by promoters, the doctors staffing NASCAR races in the 1970s and '80s would sometimes be mere optometrists, general practitioners or other doctors woefully unqualified to handle a traumatic injury/amputation.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-16-2016 at 01:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10-16-2016, 01:57 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

I don't think this has been asked yet in this thread, but did any of you grow up going to local racing? I see that Kin is from Texas, but I am not sure where Brian is from? As I mentioned earlier, my parents began taking me to dirt track races in the Northeast when I was just a few months old. All through my teenage years, my 20s and into my 30s, I was going to local races every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night.

Over a 15-year period, I averaged about 90+ races a year.I don't go to nearly that many races anymore, but local racing is still a big part of my life. I never got into any trouble when I was in my teens because I was always at the races every weekend. I have been to right around 200 tracks in my lifetime, stretching all over the Northeast and a smattering of tracks in the Midwest and Southeast.

Did any of you attend local Modified or Late Model or Sprint Car races? I did not mention some of the other great racing books I have read in recent years because I don't know if there is any interest on the board or if the topic of local short-track racing is outside of this thread's racing interest.

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-16-2016 at 02:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 10-16-2016, 05:56 AM
rgpete
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
I don't think this has been asked yet in this thread, but did any of you grow up going to local racing? I see that Kin is from Texas, but I am not sure where Brian is from? As I mentioned earlier, my parents began taking me to dirt track races in the Northeast when I was just a few months old. All through my teenage years, my 20s and into my 30s, I was going to local races every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night.

Over a 15-year period, I averaged about 90+ races a year.I don't go to nearly that many races anymore, but local racing is still a big part of my life. I never got into any trouble when I was in my teens because I was always at the races every weekend. I have been to right around 200 tracks in my lifetime, stretching all over the Northeast and a smattering of tracks in the Midwest and Southeast.

Did any of you attend local Modified or Late Model or Sprint Car races? I did not mention some of the other great racing books I have read in recent years because I don't know if there is any interest on the board or if the topic of local short-track racing is outside of this thread's racing interest.
I only went once to see my son at a Camping World Truck series race in Martinsville, he was a back up front tire carrier for Joe Gibbs Racing for the Xfinity series and full time carrier along with being a garage mechanic and fabricator with Red Horse Racing. His interests switch to drag racing.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 10-16-2016, 05:56 AM
rgpete
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Deleted

Last edited by rgpete; 10-16-2016 at 06:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 10-16-2016, 06:15 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

I will try to be succinct.

Eddie, though your bookshelf is full, put it into high gear and buy FORD The Dust and the Glory: A Racing History 1901 - 1967. Bro, believe me, I am not trying to be controlling. Having known and savored this book for over four decades, I know what I'm talking about. One thing to consider, when Leo Levine wrote it, the postwar events were still recent and fresh. The stories first hand or second hand; hence, accuracy is a hallmark of this important work. That's why the aftermarket price skyrocketed after it went out of print. Racing historians went nuts about this one. For another thing, several niches of racing fans were fed: Le Mans / racing sports car, Indianapolis, and NASCAR. Also, it is refreshingly politically incorrect; the events and people are discussed as they were.

The first race my Dad and brother took me too was at Soldier Field in either '58 or '59. Since it was stock cars, there's a decent chance Freddie Lorenzen was running.

I was EXTREMELY PRIVILEGED to be taken with my family to see the races at Meadowdale Speedway in Carpentersville, Illinois and Road America in Elkart Lake, Wisconsin. We went to the Indianapolis 500 in 1960. We were in the infield, against the fence, just as the second turn was ending. Not far away was the huge man-made scaffolding that was several stories tall. With everyone close to the edge to get a better look, the worst happened as the cars were on the parade lap or first lap---the whole scaffolding fell forward. Terrible. Amazingly, only two people died. One cameraman got the fall, and it looked much worse. Still, two people never went home....

My son and I made it to the 2000 and 2004 United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis. What genuine thrills all those races were. Our man was Michael Schumacher, who was just beginning his string of five consecutive World Drivers Championship titles. So sad he went skiing without a mask, or whatever. His poor son Mick was with him.....

If you love the regional / food issues from the era of 1947 - 1971, please do consider my book, Eddie. I know, that's all you need, another book. Yet, think about it, what has our hobby really produced about these cards, and what it was like being a child or an adult back in the day, and trying to collect these toughies?

Nada. Hey man, it's up to you. It's $30 postpaid. Remember, it's an e-book on a CD, not paper, nor audio. But it's 478 pages of pure collecting treasure.

Wow, attending an average of 90+ races a year; Eddie, that's crazy. What a racing fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for your remembrances of Dr. Steve Olvey. Fascinating, sad, upsetting, and our country mirrors the Chinese fire drills that took place in Europe in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s. Jackie Stewart and Joakim Bonnier really got the sport and the track owners to change their wicked, stupid, lardhead ways! Tragically, Jo got it at Le Mans 1972. That sad event was covered in that aforementioned documentary, THE SPEED MERCHANTS. Just saying, but among the drivers heavily interviewed was a still very young, and by now extremely successful, Mario Andretti.

Ok, guys, I said I'd be succinct. Out of here.

Take care, pal. ---Brian Powell

PS -- Funny you mention Mr. Zanardi. My family and I stopped for half an hour at Barnes 'n Noble. Alex just happened to be on the cover of one of the two British sports car magazines I try to stay up with, CLASSIC & SPORTS CAR and MOTOR SPORT. I only got to see a little of it. He's an inspiring man. Still a champion in my mind.

PSS - Eddie, or anyone who relishes the regionals, SPORTS COLLECTORS DAILY editor Rich Mueller has loaded up my chapter 8 from NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It concerns the 1960 Home Run Derby cards. In case anyone should question my intelligence and integrity about the year I gave for the issue, I strongly suggest you read my chapter, rather than make a crass comment. ---Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-16-2016 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 10-16-2016, 07:22 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
I will try to be succinct.

Eddie, though your bookshelf is full, put it into high gear and buy FORD The Dust and the Glory: A Racing History 1901 - 1967. Bro, believe me, I am not trying to be controlling. Having known and savored this book for over four decades, I know what I'm talking about. One thing to consider, when Leo Levine wrote it, the postwar events were still recent and fresh. The stories first hand or second hand; hence, accuracy is a hallmark of this important work. That's why the aftermarket price skyrocketed after it went out of print. Racing historians went nuts about this one. For another thing, several niches of racing fans were fed: Le Mans / racing sports car, Indianapolis, and NASCAR. Also, it is refreshingly politically incorrect; the events and people are discussed as they were.

The first race my Dad and brother took me too was at Soldier Field in either '58 or '59. Since it was stock cars, there's a decent chance Freddie Lorenzen was running.

I was EXTREMELY PRIVILEGED to be taken with my family to see the races at Meadowdale Speedway in Carpentersville, Illinois and Road America in Elkart Lake, Wisconsin. We went to the Indianapolis 500 in 1960. We were in the infield, against the fence, just as the second turn was ending. Not far away was the huge man-made scaffolding that was several stories tall. With everyone close to the edge to get a better look, the worst happened as the cars were on the parade lap or first lap---the whole scaffolding fell forward. Terrible. Amazingly, only two people died. One cameraman got the fall, and it looked much worse. Still, two people never went home....

My son and I made it to the 2000 and 2004 United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis. What genuine thrills all those races were. Our man was Michael Schumacher, who was just beginning his string of five consecutive World Drivers Championship titles. So sad he went skiing without a mask, or whatever. His poor son Mick was with him.....

If you love the regional / food issues from the era of 1947 - 1971, please do consider my book, Eddie. I know, that's all you need, another book. Yet, think about it, what has our hobby really produced about these cards, and what it was like being a child or an adult back in the day, and trying to collect these toughies?

Nada. Hey man, it's up to you. It's $30 postpaid. Remember, it's an e-book on a CD, not paper, nor audio. But it's 478 pages of pure collecting treasure.

Wow, attending an average of 90+ races a year; Eddie, that's crazy. What a racing fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for your remembrances of Dr. Steve Olvey. Fascinating, sad, upsetting, and our country mirrors the Chinese fire drills that took place in Europe in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s. Jackie Stewart and Joakim Bonnier really got the sport and the track owners to change their wicked, stupid, lardhead ways! Tragically, Jo got it at Le Mans 1972. That sad event was covered in that aforementioned documentary, THE SPEED MERCHANTS. Just saying, but among the drivers heavily interviewed was a still very young, and by now extremely successful, Mario Andretti.

Ok, guys, I said I'd be succinct. Out of here.

Take care, pal. ---Brian Powell

PS -- Funny you mention Mr. Zanardi. My family and I stopped for half an hour at Barnes 'n Noble. Alex just happened to be on the cover of one of the two British sports car magazines I try to stay up with, CLASSIC & SPORTS CAR and MOTOR SPORT. I only got to see a little of it. He's an inspiring man. Still a champion in my mind.

PSS - Eddie, or anyone who relishes the regionals, SPORTS COLLECTORS DAILY editor Rich Mueller has loaded up my chapter 8 from NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It concerns the 1960 Home Run Derby cards. In case anyone should question my intelligence and integrity about the year I gave for the issue, I strongly suggest you read my chapter, rather than make a crass comment. ---Brian Powell
Great stories, Brian. In his book, Dr. Olvey talks about being a big proponent of the HANS device long before it gained widespread acceptance. He recognized decades ago that basilar skull fractures were a problem that could be greatly reduced. Olvey mentioned Jim Hickman dying at the Milwaukee Mile in 1982 when his throttle stuck wide open. CART responded by immediately requiring an engine kill switch on the steering wheel prior to the next race; NASCAR took two decades to institute the same rule -- following the death of Adam Petty due to a stuck throttle.

Olvey also talks about the fatal crashes of Gordon Smiley, Greg Moore, Jeff Krossnoff and Gonzalo Rodriguez and what happened in those accidents. He wrote that he was angry that Rodriguez lost his life in such a seemingly minor crash due to a basilar skull fracture.

Here in the Northeast, we lost our Indy 500/Daytona 500 for Northeast Modifieds with the closing of the Syracuse (N.Y.) Mile last October. I attended 29 of the last 30 "Super DIRT Week" shows at the Syracuse Mile. The race has now moved to nearby Oswego (N.Y.) Speedway, but an era really did end with the state demolishing the racetrack at the New York State Fairgrounds for a $50 million revitalization project after 112 years of racing.

I have been to other tracks for their farewell race, but last October was probably the saddest scene I have ever witnessed at a racetrack. That race was so huge in the 1970s, '80s, '90s that it seemed preposterous to ever believe it would disappear.

http://www.syracuse.com/kirst/index....p_respect.html

http://www.syracuse.com/kirst/index..../post_599.html


I am interested in buying one of your books. Do you accept Paypal?

Last edited by Bored5000; 10-16-2016 at 07:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 10-17-2016, 12:47 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

I am sorry for your loss as a racing fan of your beloved track that gave you so many happy memories.

When I think of the HANS device, and what a right proper helmet might have done for Mr. Earnhardt at Daytona in 2001.... I will never forget seeing his fatal accident initially. I am by no means an expert, but it just didn't look that bad, but then my heart sank when commentator Darrell Waltrip immediately said it looked bad. The sad sound of his voice.....

Racing has fortunately come a long way in sparing the driver's life. Most folks don't understand it's still dangerous as all get-out!

Eddie, I am sorry to say I am not set up for PAYPAL. I've been asking for a money order for my book. I was paying a monthly bill by money order for years, and I'd just get 'em down at my local Post Office. They currently charge just $1.20. Your book will be sent to you postpaid, via first class mail.

Should you decide to take a chance on my book, here's my address:

Brian Powell
P. O. Box 743
New Carlisle, Indiana 46552

I probably should have written this as a personal message. I hope you're not put off, my friend. I guess in this instance, I do not mind others knowing my mailing address. I've still got a lot of copies to sell--HA!

Honestly, in my heart of hearts, I think you'll be profoundly moved by it.

Don't let the cover fool you---the book is by no means just about Mickey Mantle cards. My cover photo actually traces to when I started my writing, as a four-part series for SPORTS COLLECTORS DIGEST on difficult Mantle cards. The third installment would have had to run in two parts.

The series expanded to a book for a few personal reasons. My editor all along was former SCD editor, Tom Bartsch. The book looks very professional, I assure you. As you read it by scrolling down slowly with you computer mouse, you will ALWAYS see the "bookmarks" off to the side, allowing you to go to any entity in the book swiftly.

Rather disappointed in the Mickey Mantle card collectors. They should have jumped on NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN at once. After all, one of the chapters traces the never-told story and provenance of one of PSA's listed TOP 250 SPORTS CARDS in the hobby. Naturally, it's not a condition-rarity Topps or Bowman product. By no means, it's a massive condition-rarity 1 of 1 highest graded specimen of a rare regional.

Now, these tough Mantles ARE out there, and as David Festberg smugly commented, "they're around". The fact is, yes, they are around, with several now on eBay. But they are all around PSA 1 POOR or PSA 1 with a dreaded qualifier. Once in a while, a low high-grade PSA 2 will show up. So when Mr. Festberg correctly told me, "They're around", his statement was in need of a badly-warranted QUALIFIER!

Eddie, I was so depressed when Adam Petty perished at that track. That tragedy just crushed the family. I well remember someone commented at the next race on TV that Kyle would still go up to his room at night to pray with him and tell him good night. The pathos of it all. He was such a nice young friendly guy. Well, for a long time racing has been known as, "the cruel sport". In fact, a book was written on F1 racing with that title over 50 years ago.

Must go! Can't edit! UGH! --Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-18-2016 at 11:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 10-18-2016, 02:02 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Brian, I will stop and get a money order today or tomorrow and send it off to you.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 10-18-2016, 12:00 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Brian, I will stop and get a money order today or tomorrow and send it off to you.
Thanks Eddie! I will personally service your order and get it mailed out to you first class within 24 hours of getting your money.

My last post was anything but succinct. You get me going on historical racing and my post becomes an endurance read! Sorry about that. My passion for vintage racing mirrors your own--we just enjoy it in different ways. It's all good, bro!

Take care, friend. I'm keeping an eye on that 1959 Yoo-Hoo Chocolate Drink Mickey Mantle that Robert Edward Auctions is currently offering. I would have loved to do a chapter on that rare bird. Not enough facts to fly with it. Better shush---I'm off the subject of Vintage Racing.

Best regards, Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 11-05-2016, 01:56 PM
Justus's Avatar
Justus Justus is offline
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Default

Another vintage racing fan here. I've been collecting STP cards for years but the last time I submitted any for grading was probably 8 years ago. Sent in a group of various cards last month and just got them back. Included were these 7. Certainly not top grades but I'll take anything in this set.

Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 11-05-2016, 02:27 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Justus, great to have another racing collector in the thread, especially a fan of the 1972 STP set. Thanks for sharing the picture. Those are nice looking cards.

I had seen there were Glotzbach, Brooks, Parsons, Hylton cards at auction/for sale on eBay a few months ago, and I noticed that the PSA population had increased recently. Before that, it was at least a year since the PSA population increased for any of the cards in the set.

With the recent find of Lorenzen cards, it seems the portrait version of his card is now accessible to any collector willing to pay for the card. There was only one Lorenzen with car card in that find. I am surprised the Bobby Allison card does not have more of a reputation as a legendary rarity. PSA's population only shows two graded Allison cards, and I have never seen one for sale or at auction. I went probably two years without ever seeing a Petty '72 STP card on eBay, but there have been four or five of them on eBay over the past year.

Last edited by Bored5000; 11-05-2016 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:53 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

I am blown away by the ending price of an amazing autograph book of 1960s NASCAR racers that ended on eBay Wednesday night. The seller "youwin1415" has been listing all kinds of awesome racing items in recent months. I am not really an autograph guy, but the autograph book that ended tonight was just incredible -- I am still shocked at the $2,605 ending price. I figured the book would probably be around an $800-1,000 item, but two bidders put in huge snipes. My snipe never fired and was blown out of the water.

The book is just amazng, with dozen of autographs, including Fireball Roberts, Ralph Earnhardt, Dave MacDonald, Bobby Isaac, Billy Wade, Tiny Lund, Wendell Scott, Bobby Marshman, Jimmy Pardue, Jo Schlesser and tons of big name racers who did not perish in the '60s.

Just from looking at the list of names in the listing, there are at least seven drivers on the list who lost their lives racing in the 1960s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NASC...vip=true&rt=nc

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-10-2017 at 09:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-10-2017, 10:01 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Yikes, I just looked at one of "youwin1415"'s other amazing autograph auctions that ended on Wednesday night. I did not have a snipe in for this one, but it is also incredible -- with autographs of open wheel racers Marshall Teague, Jimmy Bryan, Bill Vukovich, Carl Scarborough and more. Just the four names I listed all died prior to 1961.

As awesome as the item is, the ending price of $3,350 left me stunned. The same buyer won both this item and the one listed above.

From those not familiar, Scarborough died of heat exhaustion during the 1953 Indy 500. Bill Vukovich dominated the race en route to winning (then was killed while leading at Indy going for his third straight win two years later). After winning the '53 race (in which nearly a dozen drivers were treated for heat-related issues), Vukovich climbed out of his car in Victory Lane and remarked: "You think this is hot? You ought to drive a tractor in Fresno in July."

Numerous relief drivers had to be used that day due to the heat. Vukovich also commented following the race: "Every time I passed a car, it had a different driver in it."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CART...p2047675.l2557

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-10-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:02 PM
Justus's Avatar
Justus Justus is offline
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Default

LOL, my snipe wasn't activated either. Wow, impressive item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
I am blown away by the ending price of an amazing autograph book of 1960s NASCAR racers that ended on eBay Wednesday night. The seller "youwin1415" has been listing all kinds of awesome racing items in recent months. I am not really an autograph guy, but the autograph book that ended tonight was just incredible -- I am still shocked at the $2,605 ending price. I figured the book would probably be around an $800-1,000 item, but two bidders put in huge snipes. My snipe never fired and was blown out of the water.

The book is just amazng, with dozen of autographs, including Fireball Roberts, Ralph Earnhardt, Dave MacDonald, Bobby Isaac, Billy Wade, Tiny Lund, Wendell Scott, Bobby Marshman, Jimmy Pardue, Jo Schlesser and tons of big name racers who did not perish in the '60s.

Just from looking at the list of names in the listing, there are at least seven drivers on the list who lost their lives racing in the 1960s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NASC...vip=true&rt=nc
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:15 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Yikes, I just looked at one of "youwin1415"'s other amazing autograph auctions that ended on Wednesday night. I did not have a snipe in for this one, but it is also incredible -- with autographs of open wheel racers Marshall Teague, Jimmy Bryan, Bill Vukovich, Carl Scarborough and more. Just the four names I listed all died prior to 1961.

As awesome as the item is, the ending price of $3,350 left me stunned. The same buyer won both this item and the one listed above.

From those not familiar, Scarborough died of heat exhaustion during the 1953 Indy 500. Bill Vukovich dominated the race en route to winning (then was killed while leading at Indy going for his third straight win two years later). After winning the '53 race (in which nearly a dozen drivers were treated for heat-related issues), Vukovich climbed out of his car in Victory Lane and remarked: "You think this is hot? You ought to drive a tractor in Fresno in July."

Numerous relief drivers had to be used that day due to the heat. Vukovich also commented following the race: "Every time I passed a car, it had a different driver in it."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CART...p2047675.l2557
Loved your write-ups, Eddie. While I am not into autographs much at all, I must say that the names you mentioned among the autographs were immensely impressive. Rarity is not good enough to describe how difficult it would be to find autographs of these long-deceased auto racing greats. Racing drivers are wonderful with their fans, and do sign easily for the most part, but some of these guys have been gone since before I was born, or at least over 50 years.

Great story on Bill Vukovich, which I well remember reading on the 1953 500. The official film called that race "The Hottest 500". In the film Carl Scarborough is seen driving slowly into the pits, for the last time. The look on his face was terrible. What struck me was that he was wearing a solid black uniform, which would exacerbate the effect of the sunlight on him, contributing to his demise. How sad.

The autograph that struck home the most was Dave MacDonald, one of the greatest Corvette racers of all time, as well as that of the Cobra, King Cobra, and the Cobra Daytona coupe. I dearly wish he had taken Jim Clark's advice to him to just get out of that car and walk away from it, referring of course to the infamous Mickey Thompson car that took his life, and was the worst-looking accident in Indy history. To think he survived the accident, and died in the hospital a few hours later.......

Hope you're doing well, Eddie, and thanks for buying my book, and contributing to the thread of appreciation for it. I'm mighty grateful, my friend. Best regards, Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:27 PM
BruceinGa BruceinGa is offline
Bruce Fairchild
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 756
Default

On the subject of racing, I thought some of you might find this photo interesting:
__________________
Successful transactions with: Double-P-Enterprises, Thromdog, DavidBvintage, Desert Ice Sports, Kurtz Kardz, Cooperstown Sportscards, BBT206 and tenorvox!

Last edited by BruceinGa; 05-11-2017 at 07:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-11-2017, 10:46 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Loved your write-ups, Eddie. While I am not into autographs much at all, I must say that the names you mentioned among the autographs were immensely impressive. Rarity is not good enough to describe how difficult it would be to find autographs of these long-deceased auto racing greats. Racing drivers are wonderful with their fans, and do sign easily for the most part, but some of these guys have been gone since before I was born, or at least over 50 years.

Great story on Bill Vukovich, which I well remember reading on the 1953 500. The official film called that race "The Hottest 500". In the film Carl Scarborough is seen driving slowly into the pits, for the last time. The look on his face was terrible. What struck me was that he was wearing a solid black uniform, which would exacerbate the effect of the sunlight on him, contributing to his demise. How sad.

The autograph that struck home the most was Dave MacDonald, one of the greatest Corvette racers of all time, as well as that of the Cobra, King Cobra, and the Cobra Daytona coupe. I dearly wish he had taken Jim Clark's advice to him to just get out of that car and walk away from it, referring of course to the infamous Mickey Thompson car that took his life, and was the worst-looking accident in Indy history. To think he survived the accident, and died in the hospital a few hours later.......

Hope you're doing well, Eddie, and thanks for buying my book, and contributing to the thread of appreciation for it. I'm mighty grateful, my friend. Best regards, Brian Powell
Thanks for the kind words, Brian. Both those autograph books were amazing, The NASCAR book even had a guy like Frenchman Jo Schlesser, who only made two career NASCAR starts (he finished 13th in the '64 Daytona 500) before being killed in the '68 French Grand Prix in a Honda that John Surteees refused to drive because he called it a potential "deathtrap."

The seller has listed all kind of amazing racing items in recent months. He has had a couple different autographs of Friday Hassler (killed at Daytona in 1972), LeeRoy Yarbrough (institutionalized in a mental hospital in 1980 and dead four years later), Marshall Teague (killed while attempting to set a closed-course speed record at Daytona in 1959), Red Byron (NASCAR's first champion died of a heart attack in 1960), Mark Donahue (killed at the '75 Austrian Grand Prix), Modified stars Richie Evans and Charlie Jarzombek (killed in 1985 and 1987, respectively, at Martinsville), Curtis Turner (killed in a plane crash in 1970), Bruce McLaren (killed testing in England in 1970), Pedro Rodriguez (killed in a sports car race in West Germany in 1971), Sprint Car driver Johnny Thomson (killed in Allentown, Pa., in 1960), Gordon Smiley (killed in a brutal 1982 Indy crash), Barney Oldfield (died in 1946), Rodney Orr (killed at Daytona in 1994), Al Holbert (killed in a 1988 plane crash), Bruce Jacobi (died in 1987 of injuries from a 1985 Daytona flip), Butch Lindley (died in 1990 of injuries in a 1985 DeSoto, Fla., crash) and Grant Adcox (killed at Atlanta in 1989)

I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I highly recommend Art Garner's book on the 1964 Indy 500, "Black Noon." The book is incredible, and debunks some of the long-standing myths surrounding the tragic '64 race. The families of Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald both endorsed the book. MacDonald's widow is still alive and contributed to the book. Garner used over 30 sources for the book, including every living driver from the '64 500.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Noon-Ye...rds=black+noon

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-11-2017 at 11:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:57 AM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post

The autograph that struck home the most was Dave MacDonald, one of the greatest Corvette racers of all time, as well as that of the Cobra, King Cobra, and the Cobra Daytona coupe. I dearly wish he had taken Jim Clark's advice to him to just get out of that car and walk away from it, referring of course to the infamous Mickey Thompson car that took his life, and was the worst-looking accident in Indy history. To think he survived the accident, and died in the hospital a few hours later.......
Funny you should mention the Jim Clark quote. It has been several years since I have read the Garner book, but that is one of the things Garner discusses in the book. Garner indicated that the famous Clark quote may not have actually ever happened. Garner put an amazing amount of research into the book, and he could not find anyone who could confirm that the discussion ever happened (not even MacDonald's wife). Garner wrote in the book that Clark and MacDonald were acquaintances at best, and Clark did not have the type of personality to just go up to other racers and freely dispense advice.

Who knows what the truth really is?

Garner also went into depth on the career of MacDonald (and Sachs as well), and how a great racer has now been reduced to being known solely for causing the worst crash in Indy history. The Thompson cars had battled problems all month long with the front end lifting off the ground and becoming uncontrollable.

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-12-2017 at 11:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:28 AM
tiger8mush's Avatar
tiger8mush tiger8mush is offline
Rob G.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceinGa View Post
On the subject of racing, I thought some of you might find this photo interesting:
wow, dangerous sport for the fans
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-12-2017, 05:48 AM
BruceinGa BruceinGa is offline
Bruce Fairchild
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
wow, dangerous sport for the fans
Yes, 20+ were killed.
__________________
Successful transactions with: Double-P-Enterprises, Thromdog, DavidBvintage, Desert Ice Sports, Kurtz Kardz, Cooperstown Sportscards, BBT206 and tenorvox!
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:52 AM
Justus's Avatar
Justus Justus is offline
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Default

Glad to see this thread getting some action again. SO much information and history, thanks!

I've had these cards a while and decided to throw them in with a submission of football cards I had going to PSA. Got them back recently...




Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:51 AM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Funny you should mention the Jim Clark quote. It has ben several years I have read the Garner book, but that is one of the things Garner discusses in the book Garner indicated that the famous Clark quote may not have actually ever happened. Garner put an amazing amount of research into the book, and he could not find anyone who could confirm that the discussion ever happened (not even MacDonald's wife). Garner wrote in the book that Clark and MacDonald were acquaintances at best, and Clark did not have the type of personality to just go up to other racers and freely dispense advice.

Who knows what the truth really is?

Garner also went into depth on the career of MacDonald (and Sachs as well), and how a great racer has now been reduced to being known solely for causing the worst crash in Indy history. The Thompson cars had battled problems all month long with the front end lifting off the ground and becoming uncontrollable.
Eddie, it would have been nice if Mr. Garner could have pinned down the quote / conversation between Mr. Clark and Mr. MacDonald. I wonder if Jim observed the skittish nature of the Thompson car when Dave was driving it, and felt compelled to have a private conversation with him. Even if it wasn't Jim's nature to offer such advice, it seemed like everyone was disturbed by the cars even before the race. There are other factors. Dave's driving style was daring. He liked to hang it out and tiger. Mickey Thompson had thought he was being savvy by not ever topping up the tank during practice, nor allowing Dave to turn many complete laps in the erratic car, Mickey's reasoning being that he did not want his competitors to know what the car was capable of. As it was, Dave MacDonald was a great racer, but this was his first Indy 500. It all spelled doom. Dave needed experience in the car of many laps to get really comfortable with it. Also, as I recall reading in the feature article in SPORTS CARS INTERNATIONAL, Dave liked to hang it out. So, on the second lap Dave is rushing through the field to get to the front where he believed he could run, and the car has a completely full tank of fuel, which he was NOT accustomed to driving this thing with, and then he loses it as you well know coming out of the last turn.

I get sickened writing these words because after many years I became a big Dave MacDonald fan due to his work for Carroll Shelby and his Cobras, King Cobras, and the Cobra Daytona Coupe. Carroll Shelby was very, very upset about the loss of his driver and friend. The Daytona Coupe is the one of the most valuable American cars ever, based on its auction price several years ago.

Some of those names you mentioned----Marshall Teague, Fireball Roberts, Pedro Rodriguez, Mark Donohue, and Bobby Thomson----

It is indeed a cruel sport. The sight and sound of the cars, whether they're racing or right before your eyes, drives us car nuts on, I would say.

----Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:24 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Eddie, it would have been nice if Mr. Garner could have pinned down the quote / conversation between Mr. Clark and Mr. MacDonald. I wonder if Jim observed the skittish nature of the Thompson car when Dave was driving it, and felt compelled to have a private conversation with him. Even if it wasn't Jim's nature to offer such advice, it seemed like everyone was disturbed by the cars even before the race. There are other factors. Dave's driving style was daring. He liked to hang it out and tiger. Mickey Thompson had thought he was being savvy by not ever topping up the tank during practice, nor allowing Dave to turn many complete laps in the erratic car, Mickey's reasoning being that he did not want his competitors to know what the car was capable of. As it was, Dave MacDonald was a great racer, but this was his first Indy 500. It all spelled doom. Dave needed experience in the car of many laps to get really comfortable with it. Also, as I recall reading in the feature article in SPORTS CARS INTERNATIONAL, Dave liked to hang it out. So, on the second lap Dave is rushing through the field to get to the front where he believed he could run, and the car has a completely full tank of fuel, which he was NOT accustomed to driving this thing with, and then he loses it as you well know coming out of the last turn.

I get sickened writing these words because after many years I became a big Dave MacDonald fan due to his work for Carroll Shelby and his Cobras, King Cobras, and the Cobra Daytona Coupe. Carroll Shelby was very, very upset about the loss of his driver and friend. The Daytona Coupe is the one of the most valuable American cars ever, based on its auction price several years ago.

Some of those names you mentioned----Marshall Teague, Fireball Roberts, Pedro Rodriguez, Mark Donohue, and Bobby Thomson----

It is indeed a cruel sport. The sight and sound of the cars, whether they're racing or right before your eyes, drives us car nuts on, I would say.

----Brian Powell
Brian, after you mentioned the video of the 1953 500, I went to YouTube and watched "The Hottest 500." The color footage is really clear for 1953. Marshall Teague was actually the driver in the black uniform who looked terrible upon climbing out of his car. That is not a criticism in any way,; just an observation that I would have thought Teague was the driver that passed away due to the heat. I had read in the past, however, that Scarborough's body temperature was 104 degrees when he climbed out of his car.

The Garner book talked about Eddie Sachs stating before the race that he did not want to be anywhere near the Thompson cars because he was worried they were a wreck waiting to happen. MacDonald passed six cars on the opening lap, then crashed on the second lap. The Garner book talks about Thompson not running a full fuel load all month long.

A couple of the more interesting contributors to the Garner book were Humpy Wheeler and Bobby Unser. Wheeler was attending his first 500, as a young tire rep for Firestone. The Sachs/MacDonald crash happened at the opposite end of the track from Wheeler, so all he could see was massive black smoke and flames high in the sky. For the next several minutes, Wheeler thought the grandstands were on fire and a replay of the 1955 Le Mans disaster had just occurred.

Bobby Unser was knocked out of the race in the Sachs/MacDonald inferno. Unser related that many of the other drivers in the field looked visibly sick by what had just happened, and he was pretty certain a couple of drivers did not have the stomach to continue on when the race would inevitably restart. Unser walked up and down pit lane telling car owners that if their driver did not want to restart the race, he was willing to take their place. Unser found no open seats, however.

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-14-2017 at 04:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:25 PM
Bored5000's Avatar
Bored5000 Bored5000 is offline
Eddie S.
Eddie Smi.th
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fleetwood, Pa.
Posts: 1,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
Glad to see this thread getting some action again. SO much information and history, thanks!

I've had these cards a while and decided to throw them in with a submission of football cards I had going to PSA. Got them back recently...




Justus, maybe this is just a glitch on my end, but your images are not appearing for me.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:17 AM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,109
Default

Sometimes I bid on stuff that has the Wow factor. This panoramic I won not to long ago and want to contribute to the thread. I've copied and pasted Heritage's description

1910's Indianapolis 500 Panoramic Photograph. This Indianapolis 500 panoramic photograph pictures eleven vehicles with their drivers and team members lined up in front of a packed grandstand for an early installment of the iconic racing event. Panoramas from the early years of this race are hard to come by in any condition. The ones that have come up for sale are mostly aerial-type shots of the speedway. This one on offer here is one of the few (and most likely the earliest) which showcase the automobiles and the drivers. Measures 30.25x6.25". Some vertical creases, otherwise EX.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4686.JPG (49.9 KB, 251 views)
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items and baseball currency from the 19th Century.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage Auto Racing Autographs indy500autographs Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 0 12-28-2015 05:01 PM
1988 Maxx Racing (MB) set SmokyBurgess Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T 0 09-09-2010 07:10 AM
2 Vintage 1940's Horse Racing Postcards - CHEAP! IronHorse2130 Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T 4 04-11-2010 02:46 PM
Horse Racing HercDriver Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T 1 06-19-2009 07:26 PM
Horse Racing and Tennis Archive Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T 0 11-15-2008 06:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 PM.


ebay GSB