Money in the hobby

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Third party grading makes a card a certified collectible. Anyone can agree or disagree with the grade but when it comes time to buy or sell the marketplace treats it as such. I recall a 1974 Topps Dave Winfield rookie that was graded a PSA 10 and even the most die hard PSA supporter couldn't in any circumstances look at the card and say Gem Mint. Well guess what it went for over $7,400 at the time and the buyer got a Dave Winfield encapsulated in a PSA 10 holder. Cards in graded cases have become commodities and the ease in which many can change hands has led to more money coming into the marketplace. One of the primary reasons the publicly traded stock and bond markets are so active is because they are liquid. The card market obviously isn't as liquid with the bid ask spread being wider and trading costs being higher but without third party grading that spread would be so wide it wouldn't allow for what has happened.


It is glaringly obvious from reading Net 54 that there are a ton of bitter collectors or haters that are so upset that they didn't jump on the graded card bandwagon in high grade. Many constantly throw insults at the people buying these cards and yet they are the one's laughing all the way to the bank. Anyone who thinks that you can't consistently tell the difference between a EX-MT card and a NM-MT or a NM and a Mint is just fooling themselves. In recent years there has been a movement towards mid grade cards with great eye appeal. These are obviously perfect cards for collectors wanting to enjoy the cards and have a reasonably nice card to look at but make no mistake about it the investment potential is in higher grades. It is really that simple. This topic has been discussed many times and at the core of collecting is ego. Whether you simply want to appease yourself for fun or you want to have the best that others can't it is a self interest motive and that is the core of one's ego. There is no doubt that many of the top cards in the hobby are bragging rights pieces. No different than any other high end collectibles or works of art.



The trend in the hobby is higher and while many sit and watch in amazement, happiness or bitterness it is what it is. I chose to collect a genre that I could afford the top level pieces. When you deal in the major sports you are competing against some of the wealthiest people in the world. All it takes is two very well off individuals to want an item and the sky is the limit. As the prices rise they become more intriguing. You can show someone a trading card that is worth $50 and they might say that is pretty cool. You show the same person a card that is worth $100,000 and their eyes light up and they say oh my God that is incredible. Taking that a step further showing someone a 7 figure card and they are in complete astonishment. This is one of the primary things that fuel high end prices. I can recall as a kid not being able to afford the 1986 Donruss Jose Canseco or the 1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens. Imagine the same being true for someone who grew up watching Mickey Mantle or Nolan Ryan or another top star. This same person has gone on to great success and finds out that the same cards they wanted and couldn't afford can now be bought in differentiating condition like diamonds and are encapsulated for safety and handling with the grade proudly displayed on top. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if they become interested they will get hooked.


Just this past week a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull in a PSA 8 went for $102,000. The wave is spreading to all of the top cards from various sports and genres. It is going to take a very serious economic contraction for this to come to an end. Even then there will be vultures looking to pick of weak prey and the cycle will start again. Humans love to collect things of sentiment and value and trading cards offer this. The card market is like the income distribution and the spread between the haves and have nots continues to widen. There is nothing wrong with being average or owning average cards but the desire to be the best or own the best isn't going anywhere. When you add the element of past performance and true scarcity it is the perfect storm.

I think people's perspective is shaped by what their goal is with their collection. I have commented many times on your wrestling cards, since I was a huge fan of wrestling growing up. To me, I would derive as much (or more) joy from your Rax Roast Beef set as from a high-grade Andre or Hulk Hogan card from the Wrestling All-Stars set that is worth a couple thousand dollars.

Some of my favorite cards I own are only $200-300 cards, but I like them more than cards that are worth more but could be replaced any day of the week simply by going to eBay.

With $5,000 or $25,000 or even $100,000 to put into one card, I would rather have an absolute rarity than a condition rarity. That's not a criticism of your choice in collecting, but just an observation that many collectors have a different methodology for how they collect.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I think people's perspective is shaped by what their goal is with their collection. I have commented many times on your wrestling cards, since I was a huge fan of wrestling growing up. To me, I would derive as much (or more) joy from your Rax Roast Beef set as from a high-grade Andre or Hulk Hogan card from the Wrestling All-Stars set that is worth a couple thousand dollars.

Some of my favorite cards I own are only $200-300 cards, but I like them more than cards that are worth more but could be replaced any day of the week simply by going to eBay.

With $5,000 or $25,000 or even $100,000 to put into one card, I would rather have an absolute rarity than a condition rarity. That's not a criticism of your choice in collecting, but just an observation that many collectors have a different methodology for how they collect.

I concur!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I concur!

Me too, all day long!

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I think people's perspective is shaped by what their goal is with their collection. I have commented many times on your wrestling cards, since I was a huge fan of wrestling growing up. To me, I would derive as much (or more) joy from your Rax Roast Beef set as from a high-grade Andre or Hulk Hogan card from the Wrestling All-Stars set that is worth a couple thousand dollars.

Some of my favorite cards I own are only $200-300 cards, but I like them more than cards that are worth more but could be replaced any day of the week simply by going to eBay.

With $5,000 or $25,000 or even $100,000 to put into one card, I would rather have an absolute rarity than a condition rarity. That's not a criticism of your choice in collecting, but just an observation that many collectors have a different methodology for how they collect.

I personally don't think there is one correct way to collect. Some of my cards are rare and most are rare simply because they are in nice condition. I personally got way more enjoyment out of tracking down that set than I do paying through the nose for some bum in a PSA 10 just to add it to my registry set.

When the topic of money in the hobby came up I really didn't give much thought to wrestling cards other than the highest graded have done the best and continue to do so. The wrestling card market is so small and most cards even in high grade are very affordable. I was speaking more in terms of the major sports as that is where real money is spent and card prices obviously for top level pieces go into the millions.

I personally don't buy the idea that there is going to be some day right around the corner when the demand just fizzles right out. Look how easily the cards Donald Spence sold were absorbed. Cards represent history and just because someone didn't see them play doesn't mean they won't have an interest. The two most expensive cards I have ever seen pictures of are owned by someone in their thirties. Mickey Mantle was retired well before he was even born.

[Exhibitman]

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant $hit to me.
--Public Enemy

Musical tastes definitely differ by region, race, ethnicity, social class, etc. Elvis and Public Enemy are both in the rock n roll HOF for very different reasons and constituencies. Debating the merits of each against the other is meaningless out of context. It isn't baseball stats. Listen to what you like.

As for the actual topic, I agree with most of what David P posted above. I am all about the rarity in what I collect. I don't get a buzz from a mainstream card the way I do from finding some obscure rarity.

[jb217676]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant $hit to me.
--Public Enemy

Musical tastes definitely differ by region, race, ethnicity, social class, etc. Elvis and Public Enemy are both in the rock n roll HOF for very different reasons and constituencies. Debating the merits of each against the other is meaningless out of context. It isn't baseball stats. Listen to what you like.

As for the actual topic, I agree with most of what David P posted above. I am all about the rarity in what I collect. I don't get a buzz from a mainstream card the way I do from finding some obscure rarity.

My nine year old and I love Public Enemy!

[ValKehl]

Being an old fart at age 73, I fondly remember the days of Elvis and the Beatles and greatly enjoy listening to their music on Sirius-XM, but who or what is Public Enemy?

[jb217676]

PE in full effect, Brother!

[Leon]

They look like they should be in jail to me.

Originally Posted by jb217676

PE in full effect, Brother!

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Being an old fart at age 73, I fondly remember the days of Elvis and the Beatles and greatly enjoy listening to their music on Sirius-XM, but who or what is Public Enemy?

Thank you, Val. My sentiments as well.

Having said that, I certainly respect others who have tastes that vary from mine. Agree with Adam -- pretty subjective stuff.

Mark

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jb217676

My nine year old and I love Public Enemy!

Me too. Most old school hip hop. Also 70s funk. But I listen to just about everything now and then. A lot of old Brazilian jazz lately. Astrud Gilberto, Jobim, etc. Even Henry Mancini and Alamo Schiffrin are on my play list.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I would rather have an absolute rarity than a condition rarity. That's not a criticism of your choice in collecting, but just an observation that many collectors have a different methodology for how they collect.

Couldn't agree more with this sentiment!

Regards,

Larry