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Michael Jordan cards are usually a good place to find some shady bidders. I didn't even look through half the 473 Michael Jordan auctions that PWCC is running currently, and the number of auctions in which the high bidder and/or underbidder has double digit retractions is just overwhelming.
The following auctions are just a sample of the bidding going on with Michael Jordan cards, and this is why posters are at least skeptical of how serious the attempt is to stamp out the problem. It's not like there are one or two auctions (or 20) out of thousands is which a questionable bidder is flying under the radar. Edd*e Sm*th Here is a Jordan Star card in which the high bidder has 15 retractions in the past six months (and feedback of over 50,000): http://www.ebay.com/itm/142348167708...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Here is another Jordan Star card in which the high bidder has 26 bid retractions in the past six months (and feedback of over 40,000): http://www.ebay.com/itm/352029920968...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Here is a Jordan auction in which the top three bidders have 7,8 and 21 bid retractions in the past six months: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...4AAOSw~CFY8Sk4 Jordan auction for a 1986 Fleer sticker in which the high bidder has 14 bid retractions in the past six months: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-S...MAAOSwj25Y8COL Another Jordan auction in which the bidder with 26 retractions from above is also winning: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Fleer-B...4AAOSww3tY7~6i Another Jordan Star auction in which the underbidder and second underbidder have 15 and 14 retractions, respectively: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 A 1998 Jordan Flair Showcase card in which the high bidder has 11 bid retractions in the past six months: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Flair-S...wAAOSwGy5Y8SiC Jordan Star card auction in which the underbidder is the previously mentioned account with 15 retraction in the past six months: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 Another Jordan auction in which the high bidder is the previously listed account with 26 bid retractions: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 Another Jordan auction in which the account with 26 retractions is the high bidder. Not to be outdone, the underbidder has 27 retractions: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 Jordan auction in which the top two bidders have eight and 21 retractions: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...EAAOSwj25Y8SlP Jordan card on which the underbidder has 14 retractions in the past six months: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-UD-Lege...QAAOSwB-1Y8Sm9 Another Jordan auction being won by the bidder with 26 retractions: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 Jordan card in which the earlier mentioned accounts with 14 and 15 retractions are the current top two bidders: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Star-Ga...QAAOSwGy5Y8B-A Jordan card being won by the account with 15 bid retractions: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565 Another Jordan auction being won by our old friend with 26 retractions: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Ultra-S...kAAOSw3utY8SVB Mr. 26 retractions is the underbidder on this Jordan card: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Topps-C...8AAOSwCWFY8Sc2 The account with 15 retractions is again winning this Jordan auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star...i:401307987090 Our man with 26 retractions is on top again in this Jordan auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Fleer-B...cAAOSwc49Y8CIe The 26-retraction account again leads the way on this Jordan card: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Ultra-S...8AAOSwTM5Y8SVZ Jordan auction in which the underbidder has 27 retractions: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Exquisi...UAAOSw~CFY8SvG Another Jordan Star card in which the account with 26 retractions is on top: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-MJ...cAAOSwnF9Y7~6N Yet again, the 26 retractions account is the high bidder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-MJ...AAAOSw03lY7~9H This Jordan auction has an underbidder with 21 bid retraction in the past six months: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...oAAOSwmgJY8SlQ Jordan card in which the top two bidders have 13 and 21 retractions: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...i:401308459405 Last edited by Bored5000; 04-23-2017 at 12:27 AM. |
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Eddie, I copied your post to and sent it to Brent. While relying on the public for reporting seems like a bit of a cop out, if someone goes through all the work you did we might as well pass it along. If you want, keep us posted if those auctions see a bunch of bidders kicked out.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
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Eddie: Thanks for bringing up the issue with Jordan sales, that is surely 'worthy of our attention'.
Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 04-23-2017 at 07:01 AM. |
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"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months."
Uh...ok. Eddie, you must be mistaken.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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But they have told us since they can't see the bidder info when they're logged in, they require us to do the research for them. They probably should have written "PWCC places blocks on any known user ID". Or they could just keep a different browser open and look it up themselves? Or work with eBay to make bid retractions visible to sellers? Or have eBay create an automatic block against those bidders? Or just stop holding auctions?
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
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Ah here it is. "First, we hired a full-time customer service and bid monitoring representative. Her job is to promptly answer email, phone calls, and review bid activity on our auctions. She takes action on all notifications of bid retractions that we receive from eBay real time as well as spot checks our listings for bidders with a high number of bid retractions, zero-feedback bidders, and low-feedback bidders. I am also assisting in this process. She started working with PWCC in the second week of January and is now fully engaged in her role in monitoring auctions."
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-23-2017 at 08:05 AM. |
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""There are a few exceptions, a few provisos, and a couple of quid pro quos."
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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No Problem. Like I wrote, I had some free time. But I was shocked by the degree that Jordan auctions were infested with serial retractors. I didn't look at any other player, but many of Jordan's cards have made a gigantic move upward in the past 12-18 months. There is wide speculation that many of his popular cards have been shilled to extreme measures recently.
Last edited by Bored5000; 04-23-2017 at 11:11 AM. |
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I actually would like to pick up a couple of Jordan Star cards at some point (the Star No. 101 is out of my budget), but Jordan in particular seems to be a favorite subject of rampant bid retractors. I didn't even go through nearly all of the 473 Michael Jordan auctions PWCC is running right now, but the amount of shady bidders even shocked me when I started looking at auction after auction. That was why I kept looking at one auction after another. Last edited by Bored5000; 04-23-2017 at 11:06 AM. |
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Nice list here. Certainly a ton of fraud going on,
still.... Quote:
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Leon Luckey |
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They are an advertiser. If you don't like it, leave.
I should add that, imo, the consignors who retract a lot of bids are committing the fraud. I hope PWCC will continue to put pressure on the retractors and reduce the number significantly in the near future. Ebay could do more too.....
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 04-24-2017 at 01:02 PM. |
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Bid what a card is worth to you and not above that and you will never be defrauded.
There is fraud and fraudulent collusion and doctoring of cards in the hobby. “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here!” |
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Completely agree with your second thought.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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PWCC business model is using the eBay platform and keeping the once successful auctions alive in the eBay community like it was over a decade ago. I Think we all agree we don't like seeing the same old cards with museum prices on them or a retail price without the auction excitement. Many complaints should go to eBay on their policies. Just set your snipe bid for a card you like and forget about it. You will either win it for what you were willing to pay for it, or you will lose it.
PWCC might want to block problem bidders who don't pay for items or people that constantly speak out saying they won't do business with them. I'm sure some of these people still bid in their auctions privately. I'm thankful they are keeping the auction process alive and they are getting a tremendous amount of material consigned to them for us collectors to have the chance to bid in and possible own if we bid high enough.
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items and baseball currency from the 19th Century. |
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JC I don't get your point. Are we supposed to be so grateful to PWCC for running auctions as opposed to BINs that we should overlook their flaws when people point them out, like selling a cleaned 4 as a 7 with no disclosure even though Brent was personally involved in the card's history, or announcing a crackdown on retracting bidders which as Eddie figured out in a few minutes isn't really taking place as advertised, and so on?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-24-2017 at 02:36 PM. |
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++ There is also soaking, shilling, frosting, cracking, reprinting, counterfeiting, card doctoring, bid peddling, etc. It's what makes our hobby unique. Do your research; understand how your money is spent. if you choose to put your head up your ass and blame others for how you got f'd, then no amount of threads on this forum is going to help you.
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You see it, think it's value is $1,000 and place a snipe for $750. Heading into the final minute of the auction I see the card has no bids and use a different account to place a bid of $500 within the final seconds. The auction ends with two bids -- mine and yours. You win the card for $505, more than $200 less than what you were willing to pay!!!!! Had I not shilled it, you would have paid .99. Using your logic, you didn't get shilled or cheated because you paid less than what you were willing to. I know this example is unrealistic and very simple. I did it that way so its easy to understand. But the number of bids, the amount of bids and the timing the bids are placed makes no difference. A buyers state of mind or what he's "willing" to pay add nothing to the definition of shilling or being cheated. |
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JC,
You may have a more expansive view of what constitutes a "true auction" than others.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years." |
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Great news! Now maybe you can focus on; asking clients to bid on items?
__________________
Nick M |
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As always, until eBay allows us to filter bidders by defects like bid retraction history, assistance from the community in identifying bidders in violation of our policy is greatly appreciated. Betsy Huigens PWCC Auctions, LLC |
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__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
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Probably because they have a massive number of listings going at the same time. I usually have only 300 or so auctions going at once and it would be impossible for me to monitor every single bidder for their retraction history. The only time I ever look at a bidders history is when they have actually retracted a bid. It would be very easy for ebay to allow sellers to block serial bid retractors but ebay doesn't want that to happen.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
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It is a zero skill job. I know for a fact I could find someone for 3.00 an hour within 1 day time. |
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I mean, have a hired person check bids regularly, ban/give the boot to those with over 10 or 25 retractions, or whatever the new number is, and be done with them. Once weeded out, it wouldn't be that hard of a job, as far as I know, to keep up with, imo.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
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If I was them and wanted to put an end to this, I would sort by "number of bids" after two days into the auction. All 25 of those bump bids to get the item on the "HOT LIST" would be eliminated, and the consignors (err, um, bidders) of those items would be blacklisted from consigning with me. And then I'd check their retraction history. And then I'd go out of business due to lack of consignors and blocked bidders. So I can see why they're slow-rolling this as long as they can.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
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__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
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Betsy Huigens PWCC Auctions, LLC |
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Copied at 8:44 est. Most users ever online was 8,305, 01-17-2016 at 10:06 PM. irv, A2000, ajjohnsonsoxfan, aquarius31, Battersbox, becollie, BengoughingForAwhile, benoutbid, Bestdj777, Bigshot69, billyb, BleedinBlue, Bliggity, bnorth, botn, brass_rat, Brent Huigens, BruceM, buymycards, chaddurbin, Charlos13, CMIZ5290, CrackaJackKid, D. Bergin, Dario7707, David Atkatz, dclarkraiders, Econteachert205, Erniedust, etsmith, Gmrson, goduke444, greenmonster66, gregr2, Griffins, Halbig Vintage, hangman62, hank_jp, HOF Auto Rookies, Hollywood42, homerunhitter, Izucant05, jb217676, jbl79, Jeff Alcorn, JeremyW, jim, Jim F, Jim VB, jimmysuitcase, joepa, JohnP0621, Kawika, Kenny Cole, Kingcobb, KingFisk, KMayUSA6060, Kurri17, lefty147, Mark70Z, MikeKam, mrkrab, mrmopar, mybuddyinc, ncinin, nearmint, nolemmings, parker1b2, parkerj33, Paul S, Peachman82, Peter_Spaeth, pitchingace77, pkaufman, PowderedH2O, PSACJ, quitcrab, rajah424, rayray, rdwyer, RedsFan1941, Republicaninmass, RichardSimon, richieb315, rjackson44, ronniehatesjazz, SAllen2556, sb1, scomeau, SetBuilder, sgd57, simas7173, slidekellyslide, Snapolit1, southcrawler, spaidly, Stonepony, swarmee, tab, TCurry85, Terrier8HOF, The Nasty Nati, thetruthisoutthere, Thromdog, TipTopBread, Topnotchsy, tsalem, vintagebaseballcardguy, VoodooChild, wdwfan, Whodunit, william_9, xplainer, yanksfan09, ZiggerZagger
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Betsy Huigens PWCC Auctions, LLC |
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