Update on PWCC Bid Monitoring Program

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 18 or so years on ebay I have never retracted a bid to the best of my memory. I am sure most guys here could say the same. The 25 in 6 month limit was meaningless. I guess 10 is better but I still can't imagine 10 legitimate retractions in that timeframe, unless it was some real one-off situation where a seller misrepresented cards and the bidder found out and backed out of a group of listings.

Will a motivated individual work around getting blocked? Some will. But that doesn't excuse the lack of a more sincere effort.

Just not entirely clear to me how much power PWCC really has to put the hammer down and enforce regulations on auctions being run by another company.

[Topnotchsy]

I've sold with pwcc before and can say 2 things:
1) he definitely has more people watching his auctions listings than most. This is logical given that he has many times the followers that most sellers have. (By followers I mean people who get alerts when he lists items)
2) some of his items sell for considerably more than items from other sellers without any shilling. Of course some sell on the low side as well. I had around 30 items that sold over the last couple of days. I took big hits on a few that sold for a lot less than expected (one went for 40%-50% of my expectation) and most sold for around going rate but there were a few that sold for a lot more (for example a card I expected $250 for going for almost $500).

[Bigshot69]

Ebay should build a buyer scoring model similar to whats used for credit scores. This way sellers could use this information when accepting best offers or setting minimum bidder score criteria when selling through auctions. This model could be based on the following criteria:

-Proportion of bid retractions compared to winning bids (10 to me isn't a big deal if someone has won 500 items in the last 6 months)
-Cost of average purchase
-Average time between purchase and payment
-Number of NPB cases opened against
-Number of purchases

I know this sounds a bit out there but does anyone else feel this would add value?

[Batpig]

Full disclosure, I'm both a consignor and buyer with PWCC...

I understand that Brent lost credibility with some after the WWG DiMaggio fiasco, but at least he's doing something. It might not be at the speed that some want, but he's the only seller on eBay putting in these limitations, and he said up front it would be a slow process. Because of that, he needs to be careful because if consignors think that at any point these policies are limiting his ability to get top dollar for his lots, they'll simply move to someone without the same restrictions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Batpig

Full disclosure, I'm both a consignor and buyer with PWCC...

I understand that Brent lost credibility with some after the WWG DiMaggio fiasco, but at least he's doing something. It might not be at the speed that some want, but he's the only seller on eBay putting in these limitations, and he said up front it would be a slow process. Because of that, he needs to be careful because if consignors think that at any point these policies are limiting his ability to get top dollar for his lots, they'll simply move to someone without the same restrictions.

So if it makes you more money it's justified? I don't follow that one, at all. I mean of course I do, but not as a matter of integrity or ethics.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Bigshot69

-Proportion of bid retractions compared to winning bids (10 to me isn't a big deal if someone has won 500 items in the last 6 months)

I have zero in 5000 purchases. If two percent (which is your 10 number) is allowable is it ok if I had 100?

The allowable number should be one...ever. If people make more than one mistake I feel a one year banishment is fine. no one with 10 retractions in 6 months isn't doing it deliberately.

[Bigshot69]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I have zero in 5000 purchases. If two percent (which is your 10 number) is allowable is it ok if I had 100?

The allowable number should be one...ever. If people make more than one mistake I feel a one year banishment is fine. no one with 10 retractions in 6 months isn't doing it deliberately.

Id feel a heckuva lot better about someone with 100 retractions and 5000 purchases than someone with 10 retractions and 15 purchases.

[Snapolit1]

The real bizarreness of PWCC is that they are an auction house that doesn't run auctions. They post to eBay and say "worthy of attention" a few hundred times.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

The real bizarreness of PWCC is that they are an auction house that doesn't run auctions. They post to eBay and say "worthy of attention" a few hundred times.

Doesn't run auctions? They run auctions on eBay, a platform for online auctions. How is this even remotely bizarre?

Agree, though, that they've never had a card that wasn't "worthy of attention" or "perhaps the best they've brokered in recent memory."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Just not entirely clear to me how much power PWCC really has to put the hammer down and enforce regulations on auctions being run by another company.

A seller can block any bidder he chooses to block. Next question?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A seller can block any bidder he chooses to block. Next question?

If someone wants to commit systematic fraud believing they are making $$ that is a teeny tiny speed bump. Let me reach for ebay identity #4 or ask my brother in law for a favor.

I have had people ask me to "help" move their auctions along. I am sure many people on this board have gotten similar requests.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If someone wants to commit systematic fraud believing they are making $$ that is a teeny tiny speed bump. Let me reach for ebay identity #4 or ask my brother in law for a favor.

I have had people ask me to "help" move their auctions along. I am sure many people on this board have gotten similar requests.

I have told people when I am giving a card away...it wasn't to cheat the system. If I am giving a card away, I rather it go to someone off of here than some Joe Blow out of Kansas. I like seeing my friends make money, if I can't.....

[CrackaJackKid]

Hey now,let's leave Kansas out of this! 😉

[bobbyw8469]

Lol

[stlcardsfan]

I see the problem as Ebay, not PWCC. They are a publicly traded, for profit corporation. That tells you most of what you need to know as to why this stuff goes on.

[jfkheat]

PWCC could announce that they are giving away all cards that they have listed and some people here would still bitch about the way PWCC went about doing so.
James

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

PWCC could announce that they are giving away all cards that they have listed and some people here would still bitch about the way PWCC went about doing so.
James

And conversely they could commit blatant fraud and some people here would be making excuses for them and praising them.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And conversely they could commit blatant fraud and some people here would be making excuses for them and praising them.

..as well as continuing to buy and consign to them

[Bored5000]

Michael Jordan cards are usually a good place to find some shady bidders. I didn't even look through half the 473 Michael Jordan auctions that PWCC is running currently, and the number of auctions in which the high bidder and/or underbidder has double digit retractions is just overwhelming.

The following auctions are just a sample of the bidding going on with Michael Jordan cards, and this is why posters are at least skeptical of how serious the attempt is to stamp out the problem. It's not like there are one or two auctions (or 20) out of thousands is which a questionable bidder is flying under the radar.

Edd*e Sm*th




Here is a Jordan Star card in which the high bidder has 15 retractions in the past six months (and feedback of over 50,000):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142348167708...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here is another Jordan Star card in which the high bidder has 26 bid retractions in the past six months (and feedback of over 40,000):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/352029920968...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here is a Jordan auction in which the top three bidders have 7,8 and 21 bid retractions in the past six months:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...4AAOSw~CFY8Sk4

Jordan auction for a 1986 Fleer sticker in which the high bidder has 14 bid retractions in the past six months:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-S...MAAOSwj25Y8COL

Another Jordan auction in which the bidder with 26 retractions from above is also winning:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Fleer-B...4AAOSww3tY7~6i

Another Jordan Star auction in which the underbidder and second underbidder have 15 and 14 retractions, respectively:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

A 1998 Jordan Flair Showcase card in which the high bidder has 11 bid retractions in the past six months:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Flair-S...wAAOSwGy5Y8SiC

Jordan Star card auction in which the underbidder is the previously mentioned account with 15 retraction in the past six months:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Another Jordan auction in which the high bidder is the previously listed account with 26 bid retractions:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Another Jordan auction in which the account with 26 retractions is the high bidder. Not to be outdone, the underbidder has 27 retractions:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Jordan auction in which the top two bidders have eight and 21 retractions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...EAAOSwj25Y8SlP

Jordan card on which the underbidder has 14 retractions in the past six months:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-UD-Lege...QAAOSwB-1Y8Sm9

Another Jordan auction being won by the bidder with 26 retractions:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Jordan card in which the earlier mentioned accounts with 14 and 15 retractions are the current top two bidders:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Star-Ga...QAAOSwGy5Y8B-A

Jordan card being won by the account with 15 bid retractions:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Another Jordan auction being won by our old friend with 26 retractions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Ultra-S...kAAOSw3utY8SVB

Mr. 26 retractions is the underbidder on this Jordan card:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Topps-C...8AAOSwCWFY8Sc2

The account with 15 retractions is again winning this Jordan auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star...i:401307987090

Our man with 26 retractions is on top again in this Jordan auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Fleer-B...cAAOSwc49Y8CIe

The 26-retraction account again leads the way on this Jordan card:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Ultra-S...8AAOSwTM5Y8SVZ

Jordan auction in which the underbidder has 27 retractions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Exquisi...UAAOSw~CFY8SvG

Another Jordan Star card in which the account with 26 retractions is on top:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-MJ...cAAOSwnF9Y7~6N

Yet again, the 26 retractions account is the high bidder:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-MJ...AAAOSw03lY7~9H

This Jordan auction has an underbidder with 21 bid retraction in the past six months:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...oAAOSwmgJY8SlQ

Jordan card in which the top two bidders have 13 and 21 retractions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-UD-MJ-M...i:401308459405