Update on PWCC Bid Monitoring Program

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

You are not going to stop the one guy that wants to shill one auction to sell the one baseball card he owns and will ever own, but you can make it harder for the chronic offenders.

It is still one extra step. One extra PayPal account sign up. 10 fake transactions per account, time to leave the feedback, or payment on a real item they likely don't want. Trails and evidence of fraud. One extra EBay registration.The accounts will eventually be blocked for non paying bids, shilling, and retractions.

Would you want to do this for every auction you list an item in, every 30 days for multiple accounts? The fact that it can be circumvented doesn't mean it is meaningless. The option has been there for 20 years for a reason.

I get it that you are trying to find a solution to the problem, but many of the worst chronic offenders of massive retractions have feedback in the thousands and still shill/retract with impunity. As far as requiring 10 feedbacks creating evidence of fraud, again, there are many, many accounts on eBay with feedback in the hundreds or thousands that are on the site despite many retractions.

If eBay doesn't care about accounts with feedback in the thousands that rampantly shill auctions, they are going to be vigilant about someone with 10 feedbacks?

As far as non-paying bids, why would anyone buy an expensive item then not pay if the goal if just to build up your suggested 10 feedbacks. The easy way around that would simply be to buy 10 items at 99 cents or "buy" from yourself/a friend with a different account to simply build up feedback.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

As far as non-paying bids, why would anyone buy an expensive item then not pay if the goal if just to build up your suggested 10 feedbacks. The easy way around that would simply be to buy 10 items at 99 cents or "buy" from yourself/a friend with a different account to simply build up feedback.

I've been convinced for a while that some of these said consignors/consignees have multiples people/multiple accounts bidding up items

edited: the watch count alone, having HUNDREDS more than others sellers with the exact same items, lends credence to this theory

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I've been convinced for a while that some of these said consignors/consignees have multiples people/multiple accounts bidding up items

edited: the watch count alone, having HUNDREDS more than others sellers with the exact same items, lends credence to this theory

Agreed...I can sell the EXACT same card and grade and get nowhere near the watch count, bids, nor final sales price. And I am OK with that.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I've been convinced for a while that some of these said consignors/consignees have multiples people/multiple accounts bidding up items

edited: the watch count alone, having HUNDREDS more than others sellers with the exact same items, lends credence to this theory

I agree 100%.

On a side note, I still don't understand why there are 40+bids on an auction that is 10 days long with 9 days left. To me, this makes no logical sense. Meaning, why are bidding wars occurring with 9 days left on a 10 day auction? This alone is a huge red flag. What is stopping a cosigner to have 10 of his buddies drive the price up on day 1 of a 10 day auction? Which IMO is happening a decent amount in PWCC auctions.

Maybe I'm just not following why someone would even bid on a 10 day auction on day number 1? If I'm interested in a said auction, it first goes in my watch-list, I then look for other similar examples of the card on ebay, I come up with a price I'm willing to pay and place my bid with 10 seconds left. I can understand a bunch of bids coming in on the last day of the auction but, not on day 1 of a 10 day auction. It's very suspect to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nick as i have said for years this seems to happen over and over on many of their big ticket cards.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I agree 100%.

On a side note, I still don't understand why there are 40+bids on an auction that is 10 days long with 9 days left. To me, this makes no logical sense. Meaning, why are bidding wars occurring with 9 days left on a 10 day auction? This alone is a huge red flag. What is stopping a cosigner to have 10 of his buddies drive the price up on day 1 of a 10 day auction? Which IMO is happening a decent amount in PWCC auctions.

Maybe I'm just not following why someone would even bid on a 10 day auction on day number 1? If I'm interested in a said auction, it first goes in my watch-list, I then look for other similar examples of the card on ebay, I come up with a price I'm willing to pay and place my bid with 10 seconds left. I can understand a bunch of bids coming in on the last day of the auction but, not on day 1 of a 10 day auction. It's very suspect to me.

I think someone mentioned before they like to bid this way (early and often), to scare other bidders away. I wouldn't do it, but I guess it makes a little bit of sense. But, yeah...it happens quite a bit with this seller...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I agree 100%.

On a side note, I still don't understand why there are 40+bids on an auction that is 10 days long with 9 days left. To me, this makes no logical sense. Meaning, why are bidding wars occurring with 9 days left on a 10 day auction? This alone is a huge red flag. What is stopping a cosigner to have 10 of his buddies drive the price up on day 1 of a 10 day auction? Which IMO is happening a decent amount in PWCC auctions.

Maybe I'm just not following why someone would even bid on a 10 day auction on day number 1? If I'm interested in a said auction, it first goes in my watch-list, I then look for other similar examples of the card on ebay, I come up with a price I'm willing to pay and place my bid with 10 seconds left. I can understand a bunch of bids coming in on the last day of the auction but, not on day 1 of a 10 day auction. It's very suspect to me.

The reason for all the early bidding is so the item gets more views. If you do not use a specific search function the items with more bids/views show up higher on the list. This early bidding/shilling is done by a few people to get their items more views.

[Exhibitman]

Meaningless window dressing, the asinine equivalent of saying that you are cracking down on drunk driving because you only allow a driver ten DUIs before suspending his license. Here's an idea: bar any bidder with more than two retractions and do it now. All this waiting is nonsense. No amount of double-talk and graphics conceals the fact that your auctions are riddled with fraud, that you know it, and that you would rather aid the crooks in stealing from your customers than resolve the problem.

[JustinD]

I think until eBay returns to days past this is going to be the status quo.

Why was it so easy to avoid this 7 - 10 years ago? I could adjust listing settings to avoid negative feedback, low feedback and npbs.

eBay should bring back negative feedback for buyers. If they are worried about the return of bidder blackmail, then provide it only in the case of an non- payer.

Auction settings need to return to the ability to block low feedback, negative feedback ratings and non-payers. This should not be my responsibility as a seller to locate non-payers, it should be eBay's responsibility to alert me. Also any bidder should lose the ability to withdraw bids at anytime without approval of the seller. I don't care that accidents happen, you should get dinged and if it happens twice in 6 months your incompetence should get you banned for a minimal year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Meaningless window dressing, the asinine equivalent of saying that you are cracking down on drunk driving because you only allow a driver ten DUIs before suspending his license. Here's an idea: bar any bidder with more than two retractions and do it now. All this waiting is nonsense. No amount of double-talk and graphics conceals the fact that your auctions are riddled with fraud, that you know it, and that you would rather aid the crooks in stealing from your customers than resolve the problem.

In 18 or so years on ebay I have never retracted a bid to the best of my memory. I am sure most guys here could say the same. The 25 in 6 month limit was meaningless. I guess 10 is better but I still can't imagine 10 legitimate retractions in that timeframe, unless it was some real one-off situation where a seller misrepresented cards and the bidder found out and backed out of a group of listings.

Will a motivated individual work around getting blocked? Some will. But that doesn't excuse the lack of a more sincere effort.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 18 or so years on ebay I have never retracted a bid to the best of my memory. I am sure most guys here could say the same. The 25 in 6 month limit was meaningless. I guess 10 is better but I still can't imagine 10 legitimate retractions in that timeframe, unless it was some real one-off situation where a seller misrepresented cards and the bidder found out and backed out of a group of listings.

Will a motivated individual work around getting blocked? Some will. But that doesn't excuse the lack of a more sincere effort.

Just not entirely clear to me how much power PWCC really has to put the hammer down and enforce regulations on auctions being run by another company.

[Topnotchsy]

I've sold with pwcc before and can say 2 things:
1) he definitely has more people watching his auctions listings than most. This is logical given that he has many times the followers that most sellers have. (By followers I mean people who get alerts when he lists items)
2) some of his items sell for considerably more than items from other sellers without any shilling. Of course some sell on the low side as well. I had around 30 items that sold over the last couple of days. I took big hits on a few that sold for a lot less than expected (one went for 40%-50% of my expectation) and most sold for around going rate but there were a few that sold for a lot more (for example a card I expected $250 for going for almost $500).

[Bigshot69]

Ebay should build a buyer scoring model similar to whats used for credit scores. This way sellers could use this information when accepting best offers or setting minimum bidder score criteria when selling through auctions. This model could be based on the following criteria:

-Proportion of bid retractions compared to winning bids (10 to me isn't a big deal if someone has won 500 items in the last 6 months)
-Cost of average purchase
-Average time between purchase and payment
-Number of NPB cases opened against
-Number of purchases

I know this sounds a bit out there but does anyone else feel this would add value?

[Batpig]

Full disclosure, I'm both a consignor and buyer with PWCC...

I understand that Brent lost credibility with some after the WWG DiMaggio fiasco, but at least he's doing something. It might not be at the speed that some want, but he's the only seller on eBay putting in these limitations, and he said up front it would be a slow process. Because of that, he needs to be careful because if consignors think that at any point these policies are limiting his ability to get top dollar for his lots, they'll simply move to someone without the same restrictions.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Bigshot69

-Proportion of bid retractions compared to winning bids (10 to me isn't a big deal if someone has won 500 items in the last 6 months)

I have zero in 5000 purchases. If two percent (which is your 10 number) is allowable is it ok if I had 100?

The allowable number should be one...ever. If people make more than one mistake I feel a one year banishment is fine. no one with 10 retractions in 6 months isn't doing it deliberately.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Just not entirely clear to me how much power PWCC really has to put the hammer down and enforce regulations on auctions being run by another company.

A seller can block any bidder he chooses to block. Next question?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A seller can block any bidder he chooses to block. Next question?

If someone wants to commit systematic fraud believing they are making $$ that is a teeny tiny speed bump. Let me reach for ebay identity #4 or ask my brother in law for a favor.

I have had people ask me to "help" move their auctions along. I am sure many people on this board have gotten similar requests.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If someone wants to commit systematic fraud believing they are making $$ that is a teeny tiny speed bump. Let me reach for ebay identity #4 or ask my brother in law for a favor.

I have had people ask me to "help" move their auctions along. I am sure many people on this board have gotten similar requests.

I have told people when I am giving a card away...it wasn't to cheat the system. If I am giving a card away, I rather it go to someone off of here than some Joe Blow out of Kansas. I like seeing my friends make money, if I can't.....

[jfkheat]

PWCC could announce that they are giving away all cards that they have listed and some people here would still bitch about the way PWCC went about doing so.
James