What's a good "first" vintage set to collect?

[Topnotchsy]

Hey all,

I used to only collect modern cards, before moving to memorabilia, line-up cards and autographed baseballs over the last couple of years.

Spending time on this site I've come to appreciate vintage more, but I've been somewhat intimidated.

Looking through some auction catalogs I've wanted to try my hand at vintage but am not sure where to start and was hoping for some advice.

I'd love any advice or guidance that anyone has, and particularly thoughts on a set that would make sense to target.

I've come up with some basic criteria for a set:
1) Good looking cards (major criteria for me on this are images that really look like the player)
2) Big name players (would like a set that includes some of the classic names like Ruth, Cobb, Mathewson etc... doesn't have to have all of these guys specifically, but those kinds of players) edit: I took out Gehrig who is not from the same era)
3) Following up on the list before, I'd like cards from the player's playing days
4) Fairly simple set. I've read many posts about the different backs and the like to some of the sets and it makes things way too overwhelming for me at this point. I'd like something a little easier to follow.
5) Set that's not overly expensive

Thanks in advance!

[GoudeyGum]

Check out '33 Goudey. Lots of HOFs including Ruth and Gehrig. In fact, 4 different Ruths. Attractive, classic set.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[x2drich2000]

Whenever I see a post like this, I almost always point to the early caramel sets, particularly the e93 set. Being only 30 cards, the set is small enough that it can be easily put together on a budget. The set is also packed with HOFers (18 out of the 30) highlighted by Cobb, Wagner, Mathewson, Plank, and Young. In lower condition but still presentable, you should be able to complete it for under $5k without much trouble. Other similar sets would be E95 or E92 Dockman or E101.

DJ

[rainier2004]

Unless you want to get into exhibits or strip cards you'll have a hard time finding Wagner and Gehrig in the same set, don't even think they overlap in those 2 though. The big 4 of the deadball butt up against Ruth starting out with some small overlap. I think e120 and 121 have a bunch of the HOFers but the price has risen substantially in the last few years.

I'm a Cracker Jack guy, no Ruth but the big 4 are there plus Jackson but its not a cheap set.

[Topnotchsy]

I appreciate the comments. I took out Gehrig because I think I'm leaning earlier than that. Guys like Mathewson, Cobb, Cy Young etc.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I appreciate the comments. I took out Gehrig because I think I'm leaning earlier than that. Guys like Mathewson, Cobb, Cy Young etc.

T201 leaps to mind.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Whenever I see a post like this, I almost always point to the early caramel sets, particularly the e93 set. Being only 30 cards, the set is small enough that it can be easily put together on a budget. The set is also packed with HOFers (18 out of the 30) highlighted by Cobb, Wagner, Mathewson, Plank, and Young. In lower condition but still presentable, you should be able to complete it for under $5k without much trouble. Other similar sets would be E95 or E92 Dockman or E101.

DJ

I took a look at the E93 and E95 sets and the Mathewson E92 Dockman is one of the nicest vintage cards I've ever seen. Those all look like they might be promising choices. It looks like the E92 so is a bit larger than other the other 2 if I'm understanding it right.

Other than condition concerns, is there anything to note about those sets?

Thanks!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I've come up with some basic criteria for a set:
1) Good looking cards (major criteria for me on this are images that really look like the player)
2) Big name players (would like a set that includes some of the classic names like Ruth, Cobb, Mathewson etc... doesn't have to have all of these guys specifically, but those kinds of players) edit: I took out Gehrig who is not from the same era)
3) Following up on the list before, I'd like cards from the player's playing days
4) Fairly simple set. I've read many posts about the different backs and the like to some of the sets and it makes things way too overwhelming for me at this point. I'd like something a little easier to follow.
5) Set that's not overly expensive

The others can be done, but that last one is tough. To meet those other criteria, even in a low-mid condition you are going into the thousands after the Stars are added. How many thousands are you willing to state is not "overly expensive" and what condition is important to you?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I took a look at the E93 and E95 sets and the Mathewson E92 Dockman is one of the nicest vintage cards I've ever seen. Those all look like they might be promising choices. It looks like the E92 so is a bit larger than other the other 2 if I'm understanding it right.

Other than condition concerns, is there anything to note about those sets?

Thanks!

For the e92s, just stick to the Dockman backs. The Dockman set is 40 cards. The other backs add more cards. The drawback to just doing the Dockmans is that you lose a few HOFers particularly Cobb, 1 Bender, and Collins. Otherwise, it is pretty straight forward. If you start looking at the other backs (crofts candy, cocoa, nadja) it will get quite pricey and extremely challenging/nearly impossible.

The E93/E95 sets are pretty straight forward. Neither have any shortprints or anything odd. The E95 Plank is he same basic portrait as the the T206 so it is fairly popular.

DJ

[garymc]

I have what collectors call a team, type collection. The team I chose is the NY Highlander/Yankees, I have cards up into the 1950's but mostly focus between 1903 to 1930. This type of collection I can enjoy searching and finding the many different manufactures and makers of so many different types of cards. some collectors just have a type collection and try to find as many different kinds and not focus on a team......just one choice. The biggest thrill is the hunt and the discovery of a card you have been looking for !

https://www.facebook.com/groups/554519474738304/

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by GoudeyGum

Check out '33 Goudey. Lots of HOFs including Ruth and Gehrig. In fact, 4 different Ruths. Attractive, classic set.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Definitely a beautiful set! I think it's probably larger than I'd want to try and tackle as a first set, but maybe one day...

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Unless you want to get into exhibits or strip cards you'll have a hard time finding Wagner and Gehrig in the same set, don't even think they overlap in those 2 though. The big 4 of the deadball butt up against Ruth starting out with some small overlap. I think e120 and 121 have a bunch of the HOFers but the price has risen substantially in the last few years.

I'm a Cracker Jack guy, no Ruth but the big 4 are there plus Jackson but its not a cheap set.

I had not thought I'd go for a black and white set, but the E120 & E121 sets are pretty nice, and the prices don't seem too crazy (compared to some other sets.) Both are larger than some of the other options, so may start with smaller ones, but thanks for mentioning them!

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by JustinD

The others can be done, but that last one is tough. To meet those other criteria, even in a low-mid condition you are going into the thousands after the Stars are added. How many thousands are you willing to state is not "overly expensive" and what condition is important to you?

For now I'm thinking a couple thousand or so. If I can find a set that seems a safe bet to hold its value and/or appreciate a bit, that would make it a little easier.

Regarding condition, some of it will depend on the set (I've noticed some sets it seems like a PSA 4-5 is not crazy expensive, while others the price is already pretty high at a PSA 2.) I think the key will be visual appeal, so a light crease or even some paper missing but overall nice looking card would probably be find for me, even if the grade is low.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

For the e92s, just stick to the Dockman backs. The Dockman set is 40 cards. The other backs add more cards. The drawback to just doing the Dockmans is that you lose a few HOFers particularly Cobb, 1 Bender, and Collins. Otherwise, it is pretty straight forward. If you start looking at the other backs (crofts candy, cocoa, nadja) it will get quite pricey and extremely challenging/nearly impossible.

The E93/E95 sets are pretty straight forward. Neither have any shortprints or anything odd. The E95 Plank is he same basic portrait as the the T206 so it is fairly popular.

DJ

Great info, thanks!

[JustinD]

As for great photos and affordability I think a run at w517s would be fun and is on my list in the future.

It's a strip set, so the purists may avoid it, but I am a big fan as the photo quality is top notch compared to the cards of the era. The 2 Ruths and Gehrig are the only real intimidating ones and they are not that pricey if you watch auctions. Tons of HOF members in this one.

Here's the database entry if you are unfamiliar - http://www.tradingcarddb.com/ViewAllSet.cfm/sid/84235

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by JustinD

As for great photos and affordability I think a run at w517s would be fun and is on my list in the future.

It's a strip set, so the purists may avoid it, but I am a big fan as the photo quality is top notch compared to the cards of the era. The 2 Ruths and Gehrig are the only real intimidating ones and they are not that pricey if you watch auctions. Tons of HOF members in this one.

Here's the database entry if you are unfamiliar - http://www.tradingcarddb.com/ViewAllSet.cfm/sid/84235

That's pretty cool. "Strip set" means that they were originally issued multiple cards attached and to get them to size they were cut by individuals?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

That's pretty cool. "Strip set" means that they were originally issued multiple cards attached and to get them to size they were cut by individuals?

Basically.

Store owners would give them to customers from the candy counter as a premium. This find last year of some counter boxes will help explain:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...-original-box/

[sterlingfox]

How about 35 Goudey 4 in 1? Only 36 cards if you do unique fronts only, and Ruth is in there. Should be fairly inexpensive if you stick to low-mid grade, isn't too difficult to find, and it's full of HOFers. You could get all 36 cards for around $1500 in an average grade of around VG/EX. This is likely the most budget friendly mainstream set that includes Ruth. HOFers of note include H.Greenberg, J.Foxx, M.Ott, D.Dean, T.Lazzeri, and a host of others.

Later you can expand on it and do the master set of 114 front/back combos, but that will get tougher, as several of the specific combos are short prints.

[Leon]

Check out E95 too. It has a great Cobby, Matty and a Wags.....several other HOF'ers and only 25 cards in the set. Good luck with whichever way you go. Here is my ex-Cobby. Who wouldn't love this card! (Here is a link to the set too)
http://www.oldcardboard.com/e/e1/e095/e95list.asp




.

[ValKehl]

Jeff, if you put much emphasis on your first criteria, especially the "major criteria for me on this are images that really look like the player" part of it, then IMHO, your two best choices by far are the E121 and M101 sets. Another choice is the E120 set. I do confess that I very much prefer the B&W, real-photo sets over the colorful, artists'-rendition sets.
Val

[Kawika]

I asked myself the same questions as the OP a few years back and also came up with the E93 set. This was in 2009 so I don't remember specifically what I paid for the cards but I don't recall any one being a particular toughie. There's not a clunker in the set - the Cobb, Matty and Wags are all appealing - and the Leach and Phillippe are breathtaking in almost any condition.

Thinking about these cards makes me miss Jim Blumenthal. What a wonderful guy he was.

My humble set: https://tinyurl.com/manpbkx

[MVSNYC]

I know T206 is a massive set, but the beauty of it, is that you can collect it so many different ways- pick a team and collect those players, or southern leaguers, or HOFers, or collect some different backs, etc.

[KMayUSA6060]

T206 set. Can't go wrong with it.

Go big or go home, right?


Regardless of what you decide to do, good luck with the journey!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Jeff, if you put much emphasis on your first criteria, especially the "major criteria for me on this are images that really look like the player" part of it, then IMHO, your two best choices by far are the E121 and M101 sets. Another choice is the E120 set. I do confess that I very much prefer the B&W, real-photo sets over the colorful, artists'-rendition sets.
Val

Here's an e121 for example:

scan0049.jpg

[effe]

I'd go with t202s. Great looking and nothing that will break the bank.

[irishdenny]

OKay...
So, I'v Read Thru This Thread
& I'v Been Patient WaitiN fir Sumone ta Mention
What I Believe ta be, the "Crown Jewel"
of the OP's Question...

imho... The T200 Set Answers ALL Of His Questions & Desire's!

http://www.oldcardboard.com/t/t200/t...?cardsetID=693

http://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/bas...-team-t200/128

Every Hall of Famer's is Present, EVeN the Managers,
Mr. Thorpe & the Team Mascot's ...

iN 2011 I presented the Same Question to myself!?
I Came uP Wit the T200 & E90-1 Set!?
I WeNT Wit the E90-1 Set!
And Although I'm much more of a Player, Type Card Collector,
I am a Gluten fir punishment...

When I Finish my E90-1 Set(wit strict guide lines!)
The T200 Set is Next!!!

JuST my T200 "Food fir Thought" fir the OP

[ValKehl]

Denny, one big negative to your "crown jewel" recommendation is there's no Babe Ruth in the T200 set!

[yanksfan09]

I'm a big fan of black and white sets too and love e121's.

Another option that bridges the gap of Cobb-Ruth era would be 1921 exhibits (First year for exhibits too!). Not too big at 64 cards. Some nice images!

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Denny, one big negative to your "crown jewel" recommendation is there's no Babe Ruth in the T200 set!

Hey there Val...

"Who's Babe Ruth!?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyFa...VpVm0gXVmJiwjb

[Jerry G]

It's a little later than Ruth, Cobb and Mathewson, but it still is pre-war. There are 72 brightly colored cars in art deco style. Compared to the T and E cards, they can be found pretty reasonably.

It has early Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams and quite a few Hall of Famers. Off the top of my head there's Dickey, Reese, Cronin, Klein, Foxx, Gehringer, Greenberg,... Then, there's interesting players like Dominic and Vince DiMaggio and Johnny "Double No Hit" Vander Meer.

I recently put a VG set together in about a year. So, the supply is good.

[kailes2872]

When I get through all of this post-war topps & bowman stuff, I am heading straight for the '33 Delong. 24 cards, lots of HOFers, Gehrig is the prize.

[bbcard1]

Delongs are doable with lots of hall of famers. The T206 is a bit of a cliche, but though to beat in many ways. The "set" is difficult but you can find meaningful qualities at a reasonable price if you are forgiving of grade. T205s are similar in that regard, but I'm glad In knocked both of those out, albeit in low grades around 2012-13.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Basically.

Store owners would give them to customers from the candy counter as a premium. This find last year of some counter boxes will help explain:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...-original-box/

Really cool, thanks for the education!

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

I'm a big fan of black and white sets too and love e121's.

Another option that bridges the gap of Cobb-Ruth era would be 1921 exhibits (First year for exhibits too!). Not too big at 64 cards. Some nice images!

Those Exhibits are beautiful. I never really understood how those worked/what they were. They are oversized correct? Are they technically cards? Are they all the same size?

Thanks

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

Those Exhibits are beautiful. I never really understood how those worked/what they were. They are oversized correct? Are they technically cards? Are they all the same size?

Thanks

Yes oversize, same size as Postcards. I, and most consider them to be cards. They are thick postcard size card stock but blank backed. Although in later years there were ones issued with Post card backs as well as blank but not 1921. They are all machine cut, same uniform size. From my understanding, they were the first set/issue to ever be issued as just cards by themselves. They weren't used to promote other products, they were the product! They were issued in arcade exhibit machines. Where you would insert (I think a penny on early sets) into machine and receive card(s). There are other exhibit experts on the board who maybe will chime in. I'm not sure if you'd possibly get more than 1 card at once out of the machine for a penny in the early days or not. Exhibits were produced on and off up until around 1980 I believe!

The exhibit arcade card dispensing machines are fairly collectible in their own right.

[btcarfagno]

I have always been partial to the Neilson's Chocolates from 1922. The Type 1's are a 120 card set, so may be a bit big for your taste at the moment, but commons can be had in low/mid grade for $20-25 each easily. The set has great borders and action shots as you can see below, and the Type 1 checklist includes major HOFers such as:

Babe Ruth
Walter Johnson
Ty Cobb
Grover Alexander
Eddie Collins
Rogers Hornsby

and about 10 other HOFers as well.







Tom C

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

"Who's Babe Ruth!?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyFa...VpVm0gXVmJiwjb

Denny, I think he's the guy who developed a popular candy bar that he named after himself.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

It's a little later than Ruth, Cobb and Mathewson, but it still is pre-war. There are 72 brightly colored cars in art deco style. Compared to the T and E cards, they can be found pretty reasonably.

It has early Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams and quite a few Hall of Famers. Off the top of my head there's Dickey, Reese, Cronin, Klein, Foxx, Gehringer, Greenberg,... Then, there's interesting players like Dominic and Vince DiMaggio and Johnny "Double No Hit" Vander Meer.

I recently put a VG set together in about a year. So, the supply is good.

I was going to say the same thing until I noticed all replies were focused on earlier sets. Probably the perfect set for a first time set builder. It has it all. Great looking cards. Loaded with HOFers. And easy to complete with only 72 cards.

Edit: not to mention 1941 was such a historic season. Dimaggios streak and Williams hitting over .400. I sure wish I had been around to see that.

[DeafSports]

Did this post make your decision a lot harder now? especially with a lot of knowledge and different taste.

You guys are tempting me to do another set now but no no, I'm sticking to what I want to do first!

Im doing E-91 A right now. They aren't not easy to find as B and C set.

Good luck and I look forward to your choice and first card to see how much it bitted you.

Best,
DG

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by DeafSports

Did this post make your decision a lot harder now? especially with a lot of knowledge and different taste.

You guys are tempting me to do another set now but no no, I'm sticking to what I want to do first!

Im doing E-91 A right now. They aren't not easy to find as B and C set.

Good luck and I look forward to your choice and first card to see how much it bitted you.

Best,
DG

it definitely did, but it also help eliminate a couple of options that I had considered in favor of other options that fit my interests more.

[Econteachert205]

T205's are cheap and look great. Plus no real counterfeit worries thanks to the borders.

[iwantitiwinit]

If 1948 Bowman qualifies as vintage I think it's a great starter set. It can be easily completed and an entire set in say psa 5 can had within your price range and there are many notable rookies. Knock it off the list then move onto something more challenging if you have the bug.

[nat]

How good these suggestions depends a lot on how limited your budget is. Delongs, for example, are wonderful cards, but price that Gehrig before you dive into it. An actual budget range would probably elicit more helpful suggestions.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by nat

How good these suggestions depends a lot on how limited your budget is. Delongs, for example, are wonderful cards, but price that Gehrig before you dive into it. An actual budget range would probably elicit more helpful suggestions.

I mentioned it in a thread earlier, but I was thinking a set that I could reasonably attempt for $2-$5K (although the number would depend on how slowly I build it).

While a few of the posts were sets I could not really consider, all of them have taught me about the different options and highlighting some of the strongest elements and weakest elements of different sets.

Right now the set I'm leaning towards most is probably the 1921 Exhibits which would likely stretch the budget in all but the worst condition, but hits on some of the other points nicely and is really beautiful IMO.

[Topnotchsy]

I wanted to thank everyone for the help. I thought I'd share my first pick-up. I haven't decided if I will go for the whole set, or look to pick up only the HOFers and bigger names (also not sure if I will stick to 1921 but will see for now.)

Does anyone have a list of the Exhibit cards that would (reasonably) be considered "rookie" cards. I know the 1925 Gehrig, but know there are others.

Thanks!

[Touch'EmAll]

Gee, thats a sweet looking Hornsby. The near perfect centering adds so much to the eye appeal.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Gee, thats a sweet looking Hornsby. The near perfect centering adds so much to the eye appeal.

Thanks! There is a crease on the bottom right corner which kept the grade down (among other factors) but I think over all it looks pretty nice!

[yanksfan09]

Nice choice! And great hornsby! That's one of my favorite cards in the set.

[kmac32]

Strip cards like W572 are nice. Can get lots of HOF players without a huge expense

[toppcat]

1936 Goudey, small in size, a little offbeat and a good trial run for a longer set.