Signed T206: Was Rube Marquard's Wife Signing For Him?

[theshleps]

If you go to Pauls site
http://www.signedt206.com/other-peop...eadball-cards/
the T205 and CJ marqard (one on the right) are mine and the CJ exhibits the signature of what you say is the wife signing. I am not disagreeing at all. The CJ one always bothered me. Hope you are wrong

[T206Collector]

Okay, but the D in Marquard on your CJ is consistent with all the others. I think it's fine - would get authenticated by JSA and PSA/DNA and SGC - and is more likely than not his hand.

[ATP]

Originally Posted by theshleps

If you go to Pauls site
http://www.signedt206.com/other-peop...eadball-cards/
the T205 and CJ marqard (one on the right) are mine and the CJ exhibits the signature of what you say is the wife signing. I am not disagreeing at all. The CJ one always bothered me. Hope you are wrong

Hi Michael, would it be possible to post a larger scan of your CJ (or maybe Paul has one)? It is hard to see from the smaller size on the link. I would love to see it clearly. And I just want be to clear that I am NOT definitively saying that I think Marquard's wife (or someone) signed these ones with the "stick" R at the start, it's a theory I have been looking into for over a year now and what better place to discuss it... and perhaps prove, disprove, or just learn more about his autograph as it may not be something that can be definitive either way without much more compelling evidence. What I do feel strongly about is the T205 I posted above and the index card came back in the mail at the same time from the same autograph request, and to me they are clearly not in the same hand, medium aside. I find it fascinating and it's a subject I will continue to have interest in. I hit a dry spell in research and figured it was time to ask others to take a look at what I found so far and see what else is out there.

[7nohitter]

Look at the 'M' in the last name. The signatures with the "stick" R have the exact same M as the wife's signature on other documents. Rube's 'M' looks completely different and in my opinion does not match the M's on the stick R signatures.

[theshleps]

marquard 14.jpg
is this good enough? otherwise I have to go to the vault. opinions?

[Republicaninmass]

Does anyone think after 40 years of signing t206s, that Rube didn't know the length of his own name? I'd think any that are not signed on the same plane are wife signed, which has been almost 100% of the examplars with the straight R

[ATP]

Here's an example of what I would presume is probably near the end of Rube's long life. Note that he still makes an attempt at making the first "R" all in one circular motion, and connects the R to the u fluidly without lifting the pen. And then there's the M...

I was a notary for ten years and have witnessed more signatures than most would in ten lifetimes. Sometimes I notarized the same document every month for the same person for many years. Their signature would change over time, that's is a fact known to all of us, it happens with our own name. But, one thing that always seemed to be a constant and amazed me was how it started, and to some degree how it ended. The middle changed all the time, letters shortened, letters omitted, form falls off, even slant may change some, but they would pretty much always start it the same way for the first letter or two.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by theshleps

Attachment 230796
is this good enough? otherwise I have to go to the vault. opinions?

In my opinion, this is the wife...look at the M, The stick R and the q.

[ATP]

Here is one other example of a "Stick R" style Marquard and the same card signed with what I would consider his normal signature. Again, I have yet to see the "Stick R" style on anything but a card. This is a good comparison reference because these TCMA cards weren't out on the market until later in 1974 I believe, so we are looking at roughly only a five or six year window that both could be signed. To me, again, these clearly do not appear to be in the same hand.

[T206Collector]

How about how he changed the "P" to start "Phone" and "Pikesville"?

[ATP]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

How about how he changed the "P" to start "Phone" and "Pikesville"?

Interesting, thanks for taking the time to post that. It's hard to see for certain but it still looks like it was completed with one fluid stroke (up and down vs circular), and no lifting of the pen for the top.

Paul you have probably looked at more signed Marquard cards than anyone out there I so certainly respect your opinion and I really appreciate the active discussion on this one. What are your thoughts (I would love to hear from some of the other autograph pros on here if they are willing to weigh in as well regarding these) on the two TCMA cards I posted above, that certainly had to be signed pretty close from a time perspective. Do they look like they are in the same hand? To me, they don't at all. Maybe I am just seeing what I want to see because I have been positing this for over a year now, but they just look completely different to me and not something that can be explained away with a letter change or medium...everything looks different. I stick with pointing out the "R" but really it's everything about it.