Piedmont 150 plate scratch(es) progress

[mybuddyinc]

Not sure if this will help, but here it is:


m012.jpg

[Joshchisox08]

I know Kleinow batting is already on here but here's mine courtesy of Mike !

[dougscats]

Does this qualify as a scratch, or is it some other kind of mark?

I hope it shows up in the scan--two fine, parallel lines running from top to bottom, about a third of the way in--

I'm pretty sure it's the same blue ink that's composes the Piedmont back.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by dougscats

Does this qualify as a scratch, or is it some other kind of mark?

I hope it shows up in the scan--two fine, parallel lines running from top to bottom, about a third of the way in--

I'm pretty sure it's the same blue ink that's composes the Piedmont back.

Doug

Nice card and thank you for posting it.

Not a fluke. If you hop on Ebay right now, almost every Hannifan Piedmont 350 up for auction has these same lines on the back.

[phlflyer1]

Really cool thread that I wish I had seen much sooner and posted on.

I guess I've tried to avoid T206 threads since selling my near set of 518 a few years back so as to not get seduced by the monster yet again.

I went back to the images of my set and found that I have two examples that I can share.

Frank "Wildfire" Schulte (Batting) - The plate line runs through the "i" in series down through the "n" in Piedmont





Jimmy Williams - The plate line runs through the "P" in Piedmont down through to the left of the factory designation

[Pat R]

Thanks for posting those Scott. Schulte is one of the subjects that has a three
card vertical scratch (there's also a fourth Schulte with a horizontal scratch).

[Pat R]

For anyone who's interested Here's an album of all the plate scratches I have
documented so far. There are some changes and quite a few additions I need
to make with the sheets, they haven't been updated in quite awhile. If you choose the "original" option they are the largest scans for most of the images.

A handful of the scratches aren't true plate scratches but I put them in
because they could be informative.


http://imageevent.com/patrickr/t206platescratches

And Here's an album with the scratches highlighted.

http://imageevent.com/patrickr/highl...platescratches

[Luke]

Great work Pat! I just looked at a couple that I have been meaning to post, but they are already represented.

[Jobu]

Pat, thank you for posting the link so I can check whether or not I have found something new. I believe I have two new additions (posted here) and a few other repeats. I will email better scans of all of them to you and post the new guys here for the record.

[Pat R]

A new McGraw Scratch. (upper right corner).



This new McGraw fits under this previously documented McGraw with two
scratches (middle and bottom left).

The new McGraw fits in the blank space under McGraw 1 on this sheet.
http://imageevent.com/patrickr/t206p...=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

[Jobu]

Hopefully a new one

[tedzan]

My green Cobb has a different "plate scratch" on it's PIEDMONT 150 back......





TED Z
.

[atx840]

Beauty Ted.

Great work Pat, as always.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

My green Cobb has a different "plate scratch" on it's PIEDMONT 150 back......





TED Z
.

Cobb (green port) and Tinker (hands on knees) share the same exact
scratch indicating they were likely in the same sheet position on different
sheets.

Here's the possible sheet with two subjects with the same scratch for each
position.

http://imageevent.com/patrickr/t206p...=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

[iwantitiwinit]

No doubt that Cobb and Tinker were positioned on different sheets in the exact same spot. Nice post.

[t206hound]

I've followed this thread and kept track of various clues that could help put these sheets together. Pat has speculated (and I agree) that there were different press runs during the Piedmont 150 phase. To the best of my knowledge, none of the two-namer cards have plate scratches, but there are known two-namer subjects that have plate scratches.

Following is the list of Piedmont 150 two-namers that are known, but to the best of my knowledge, none of them have plate scratches. I think I have a few of these images/cards at home, but can anyone else provide backs of any of these cards?

Those that are red bold have images below (12/20 images; none have plate scratch):
Beaumont - Seymour
Bender (port.) - Delehanty (Wash.) [there are two of these]
Bergen (bat) - Dooin
Brown, M (port.) - Magee (port.)
Bradley (port.) - Bender (port.)
Devlin - Schulte (front view)
Hinchman, B. - Stovall (port.)
Jennings (port.) - Jordan (port.)
Johnson (port.) - Schlei (catching)
Konetchy - Jennings (port.)
Killian (pitching) - Chance (red port.)
Lindaman - Bresnahan (port.)
Lundgren (Cubs) - Doolin
Lundgren (Cubs) - Ball (New York)
Manning (batting) - Flick
Pastorius - Lake (NY, throw)
Powell (horizontal) - O'Leary (port.) [there are two of these]
Shipke - Griffith
Spade - Cicotte
Walsh - Seymour (batting)

[Luke]

Jennings/Jordan & WaJo/Schlei (not my card unfortuantely)

[t206hound]

I don't see scratches on these:

Bender-Delehanty (mine, one of two known)
Bergen-Dooin (not mine)
Killian-Chance (mine)

[t206hound]

From the two names thread:

M. Brown (Portrait) - Magee


Powell - O'Leary


Walsh - Seymour


Shipke - Griffith


Lundgren - Ball

[Pat R]

Erick, I haven't seen any two-name cards with plate scratches either.

It's interesting that's there's a Pastorius-Lake and a Lake-Pastorius.

Here's the Manning-Flick.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Erick, I haven't seen any two-name cards with plate scratches either.

It's interesting that's there's a Pastorius-Lake and a Lake-Pastorius.

Here's the Manning-Flick.

Ack! That's a mistake. Went back to the original thread and I had copied in Chris' information and he listed it as Top/Bottom. When I updated later I didn't see the card listed as Bottom/Top, so I added it.

In short, they don't both exist. The correct subjects are Pastorius-Lake. Updating lists above.

Here's the Pastorius-Lake from the Favorite 2015 Pick-Ups thread:

[steve_a]

Hi Pat. I have a copy of what you term Young (bh) 6. Looks to me like it fits over your Young (bh) 1. Have you just not updated all of your mock-ups or do you have reason to believe that they do not line up?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by steve_a

Hi Pat. I have a copy of what you term Young (bh) 6. Looks to me like it fits over your Young (bh) 1. Have you just not updated all of your mock-ups or do you have reason to believe that they do not line up?

Steve, sorry I missed your question and just saw it as I was about to post
something here.

The sheet that has the Young (bare hand) on it has been the hardest to try
and figure out. The sheet that is in my imageevent with young on it was
originally two different partial sheets and I did have Young 1 and 6 connected
vertically but it was pointed out that the two sheets looked like they went
together and I thought they might, but in putting them together Young 1 and
6 had to be separated. I haven't worked on this sheet much recently but I
think it may actually be two different sheets as I originally had them.

I think I found the final piece of the puzzle for one of the sheets but I have
to wait to confirm it. If it fits it should give the final number of Horizontal
subjects on this sheet (and I think at least all of the PD 150 layouts used
when the damage occurred on all of the plate scratch sheets). Based on the press sizes
available at the time they were printed I think it should give us the vertical number also.

[Pat R]

I recently found this unconfirmed Waddell scratch that I was almost certain should exist based on the Waddell (port) same sheet position relationship with Schulte (front view). There were four different Schulte scratches and two Waddell (port) scratches. Both Waddell scratches were exact matches with two of the Schulte scratches indicating they were in the same sheet position on two different sheets, therefore I was pretty sure the two other Schulte scratches would eventually be found on a Waddell (port) PD 150.

It really makes the research worthwhile when you find these
scratches that you think should exist based on a pattern.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by t206hound

From the two names thread:

M. Brown (Portrait) - Magee


Powell - O'Leary


Walsh - Seymour


Shipke - Griffith


Lundgren - Ball

Imagine if that were a Magie rather than a Magee!! Does a 2 name Magie exist? If it does I want it.

[Pat R]

.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Pat R

This Cicotte scratch has a pink mark on the left below his belt. The plate
scratches indicate that Seymour is to the left (front) of cicotte so there
might be a small chance of finding a Seymour that is miscut left to right
with part of this mark.

I found a Seymour with the continuation of the pink mark from Cicotte.

[Jantz]

That's interesting Pat

Good eye!

[Jobu]

Pat, you're killin it! Keep up the good work.

[Jobu]

These might be repeats, there are now too many posts to go through to check.

[steve B]

Repeats are fine, especially with nice pics like those.

Pat really is doing an amazing job with this. Especially extending it to matching up a flaw from the front, which really nails down those two being side by side.

The other thing about multiple scans is that eventually it might be possible to narrow down one group as being done after another group depending on how much of the scratch shows. Less might indicate wear to the plate, or a light resurfacing after wear. (A deep scratch on a stone might survive a light resurfacing, and there's a couple scans I have that I think show the scratches surviving into the 350 series. )

Steve B

[Jobu]

Another Willis

[Pat R]

This Brown (Port) is a new scratch and is a match with Burch (Batting).
Brown, M. (Port) Back.jpg Brown, M. (Port).jpg
Burch%20Back_1.jpg Burch.jpg

It's on this plate scratch sheet that had two different sets of fronts printed on it.

Sheet%20C-D_1 - Copy (4).jpg
Sheet%20C-D_1 - Copy (3).jpg

[Thromdog]

Excellent! Looking forward to this next sheet advancing.....very interesting.

[Luke]

I love this thread. Thanks Pat (and everyone who has contributed)!

[Jobu]

OK Pat, got some more for ya. Let me know if one of these is a new piece!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'm famous! That's my Neal Ball up on Ebay right now, didn't think to post it.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jobu

OK Pat, got some more for ya. Let me know if one of these is a new piece!

Hi Bryan,

I do have all of those but thank you for posting them.

There are five different Neal Ball scratches and two of them have similar
but different scratches. The Ball in your post is one of them (This one on the right).

Ball%203b%20Back[1].jpgBall%204%20Back_1[2].jpg

[Jobu]

Scott, I hope that you aren't upset that I posted a picture of one of your Balls.

Pat, I am enjoying the hunt for these. How many are missing from your sheet and which players do you think they will likely be?

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I'm famous! That's my Neal Ball up on Ebay right now, didn't think to post it.

[Pat R]

Hi Bryan,

There a still a lot of scratches that I'm searching for but here are a few....
I'm looking for a Crawford for this sheet.
Sheet F-2 b - Copy (3).jpg
Sheet F-2 b - Copy (2).jpg

I'm also looking for the matches to these scratches on the A-B sheet.

The matches to these three (Conroy, Gibson, And Hinchman) should come from the SC factory 649 subjects.
Conroy%201%20Back_1.jpg
Gibson.jpg
Hinchman%201a%20Back.jpg

And the match to O'Leary should be a non-649 subject.
OquLeary%20_1_%20Back.jpg

[steve B]

From Willowgrove, who sent me an auction link.

Reulbach with the scratch up near the top.

Not great scans as they're from a lot and the original scan isn't all that big, but the important bit shows.

Steve B

[Jobu]

Mr. Birmingham

[Jantz]

Earlier in this thread a couple of board members posted up scans of two Hannifans (Piedmont 350) with lines on the backs.

I just noticed Frank B. posted this Demmitt on the BST with matching lines.

Below are one of the Hannifans & Frank's Demmitt.

[Leon]

The plate scratches seem to be taking on a life of their own!!

Originally Posted by Jantz

Earlier in this thread a couple of board members posted up scans of two Hannifans (Piedmont 350) with lines on the backs.

I just noticed Frank B. posted this Demmitt on the BST with matching lines.

Below are one of the Hannifans & Frank's Demmitt.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Earlier in this thread a couple of board members posted up scans of two Hannifans (Piedmont 350) with lines on the backs.

I just noticed Frank B. posted this Demmitt on the BST with matching lines.

Below are one of the Hannifans & Frank's Demmitt.

We can add Myers (fielding) with these lines.
Myers.jpgMyers Back 1.jpg

All three also have these marks.
Myers Back - Copy.jpg
Myers 1200 DPI - Copy (2).jpgMyers 1200 DPI - Copy.jpg

So we know these three were in the same sheet position on different sheets.

[Pat R]

I found this new Kling scratch.
img228.jpg
img227.jpg

This was a probable scratch based on a Mordecai Brown with the same scratch.
img230.jpg
img229.jpg

There were two different existing matching scratches for Brown and Kling so
it was likely that this Kling existed.
Kling%20Back_1.jpg
img237.jpg
img236.jpg
Sheet%20C-D%20Highlighted%20-%20Copy large.jpg
Sheet%20C-D%20Highlighted%20-%20Copy.jpg
For some reason there are very few scratches of certain subjects on this
sheet and kling is one of them. This is the first Kling with this scratch I have seen and I've
only seen one or two of the other two Kling scratches but I have several Brown's in my collection and I've seen quite a few others that have come up
for sale.
Brown%20Group.jpg
img238.jpg

[Jantz]

Nice find Pat and thank you for putting out this information!

I have a Kling PD 150 as well. When I get a minute, I'll take a look and see if mine has a scratch. I may have already looked for you earlier in this thread, but I'll check again.

Jantz

[Jobu]

A bunch more

[Jobu]

This card has probably been posted given the bold scratch, but just in case.

[Pat R]

I picked up this Clarke (Portrait) off ebay from a board member. This is the
first Clarke (Portrait) with a scratch and it's an exact match with the scratch
found on Flick.
img289.jpgimg290.jpg
img292.jpgimg293.jpg
img291.jpg
img294.jpg