Altered high grade E93s in Mile High?

[ejharrington]

The original poster only claimed the Wagner 6 and 9 were the same card. The other two cards came up later in the thread. What you have shown, however, is that simply because there is a similar mark on the two cards and they look virtually identical does not mean they are the same card.

Also, I am still confused how the claim about the three Cobbs. How could the certified 50082114 and 50082116 cards be the same since presumably they were submitted together. And then how does a card with a corner that needs to be rebuilt pass and become a 9?

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

The original poster only claimed the Wagner 6 and 9 were the same card. The other two cards came up later in the thread. What you have shown, however, is that simply because there is a similar mark on the two cards and they look virtually identical does not mean they are the same card.

Exactly. I mean honestly I would have SWORN that the 8.5 and the 9 were the same card, but I would have been wrong (I noticed the wear on the 8.5 but attributed that to the saturation of the image or the scanner). And I think the 8.5 looks a lot closer to the 9 than the 6 does...

So if that's the case, it seems really difficult to make the claim that just because the PSA 6 and the PSA 9 look nearly identical that they must be the same card. That being said of course it's totally still possible, just not as sure a thing as I think many realize.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Again, I see specks on the 8.5 but not the 9, along the top border and in the upper left quadrant. Maybe it's the scan. But I see them.

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again, I see specks on the 8.5 but not the 9, along the top border and in the upper left quadrant. Maybe it's the scan. But I see them.

Of course they're different, but that's not the point. It's their similarities that are significant.

I mean, imagine if the 8.5 didn't have those little specks. It would look exactly the same as the 9, you would swear they were the same card. They have nearly everything else in common. Same registration, centering, printing defects (hickey), etc. I would have thought that two cards with unique provenances from the e93 set could not possibly have so many features in common.

But they aren't the same card. And if Wagner already has one (nearly) identical twin, who's to say the 6 just isn't another card with the same registration, centering, printing defects etc. as the 8.5 and the 9?

[Peter_Spaeth]

In your prior post you said they looked "identical." Sorry but I am now confused as to your point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Also, my assumption is that Lichtman is relying on more than scans to suggest the 6 and 9 are the same card.

[1880nonsports]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Also, my assumption is that Lichtman is relying on more than scans to suggest the 6 and 9 are the same card.

this thread reminds me a bit of the telephone game. Not quite sure what anyone is saying at this point - some of the argument seems to be lost in the translation and between too many cards............

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In your prior post you said they looked "identical." Sorry but I am now confused as to your point.

Ok, let me clarify. People were saying "look how many similarities there are between the psa 6 and the 9, they must be the same card! Look at the registration! The centering! Look at the printing defect next to Wagner's head! They must be the same card!"

But all the similarities people are pointing out are also shared by the 8.5 and the 9, making all the similarities meaningless if you're trying to use them as evidence that the 6 and the 9 are the same card since we know that the 8.5 and the 9 are unique, individual specimens.

Must the 6 and the 9 be the same card because they share the same centering, registration, hickey etc? NO, because the 8.5 also has all those same features and but is not the same card. Therefore it would be faulty logic to assume that on the basis of their similarities the 6 and the 9 must be the same card, because the same similarities are shared by the 8.5 and the 9, which we know for a fact are not the same card.

That being said, I know you're saying there might be more evidence somewhere, but without it there seems to be absolutely no basis to assume they are the same card. It is however, entirely possible that they are of course and that someone doctored it. My only point is that their physical similarities are not enough to justify that claim alone. Which surprises me, because I would have though that two cards from the e93 set that shared so many similarities would have to be the same card, but the 8.5 and the 9 proves that that assumption is just not true.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well I would assume PSA would have caught recoloring, so the 8.5 CAN'T be the same card as the 9, whereas there is no inconsistency between the 6 and the 9.

But to your broader point, I guess I was considering as part of the evidence the confidence with which the thread was posted, knowing it could potentially hamper the then-active auction of a card that had sold in 6 figures. And not just the scans.