Piedmont 150 plate scratch(es) progress

[Luke]

A couple matching Waddells:

[Pat R]

Luke, Here's the waddell scratch that's under your Waddells.

[Luke]

Awesome!

[Luke]

Donlin

[Pat R]

I finally figured out how to load an image big enough to show how scratches
on the same subjects line up in multiple places. It takes a minute to load
but when it does you can click on the image to enlarge it.

Based on the crop mark on the Oldring scratch in the bottom right this should
be part of the right hand side (left front) of a sheet that I'm still working on.

http://photos.imageevent.com/patrick...20-%20Copy.jpg

[Jobu]

Nice Pat, great work.

[LKeeler]

I was going through my Polar Bears and spotted this scratch on the back of my Mullen.

[Jantz]

Nice Luke!

There are a few other players with Polar Bear backs that this line appears on. Almost in the same location as well.

Thanks for posting the Mullen.


Jantz

[Laxcat]

Another Oldring

[Jobu]

Oldring has a crop mark and a weak WST too, quite a bit happening there.

Originally Posted by Laxcat

Another Oldring

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Oldring has a crop mark and a weak WST too, quite a bit happening there.

Does that mean it was at the end of the sheet and different? card was in the same spot on the next sheet? I'm quite new to the prewar stuff.

[Pat R]

It's a corner crop. I posted these two with the same scratch earlier in
this thread.

[Jobu]

I hope you are enjoying learning about these - I can attest to how addicting it can be. I commented because I think it is always good to point things out and not assume that everyone knows what is being shown.

As Pat showed, this is a corner crop. The edges of the sheets had margins that were trimmed off after the cards were printed. Oldring appears to have been at the bottom right of his sheet (at least for Piedmont 150) as you can see by the location of the crop mark.

Originally Posted by Laxcat

Does that mean it was at the end of the sheet and different? card was in the same spot on the next sheet? I'm quite new to the prewar stuff.

[mullinsm]

Here is one for your studies: Nicholls, Phila. Amer. Hope this helps!

[Luke]

Camnitz

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by mullinsm

Here is one for your studies: Nicholls, Phila. Amer. Hope this helps!

It Does help thanks for posting the scans, this scratch is in one of the sheets
we are working on (there is a link in post #205). There is part of a second
scratch on this Nicholls (through the T and Y in quality and part of the scroll)
that matches up with a second scratch on one of the Jacklitch scratches and
it shows up a little clearer on yours.


Luke, I saw that Camnitz when it was listed. Good price on it but I already had
one in a little rougher condition.

[steve_a]

Below is (not mine) an upside down Doc White. Since it is upside down the back should be from a column equal columns from the center. For instance, given columns ABCD a typical A back would be a D when upside down. If we can match this back to a right-side-up player we have another data point on sheet width. If both players can be linked by a multi-column horizontal scratch that terminates in a side crop then I think algebra would give us the sheet width. Not a lot to work with here but I think there is scratch between "u" in Subjects and "Pi" in Piedmont. Add in a few stray distinctive marks and someone might recognize it.

[mullinsm]

Originally Posted by Pat R

It Does help thanks for posting the scans, this scratch is in one of the sheets
we are working on (there is a link in post #205). There is part of a second
scratch on this Nicholls (through the T and Y in quality and part of the scroll)
that matches up with a second scratch on one of the Jacklitch scratches and
it shows up a little clearer on yours.


Luke, I saw that Camnitz when it was listed. Good price on it but I already had
one in a little rougher condition.

Great, glad I could help! The sheet image you directed me to is INCREDIBLE detective work. Thanks for your efforts - BRAVO!

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by steve_a

Below is (not mine) an upside down Doc White. Since it is upside down the back should be from a column equal columns from the center. For instance, given columns ABCD a typical A back would be a D when upside down. If we can match this back to a right-side-up player we have another data point on sheet width. If both players can be linked by a multi-column horizontal scratch that terminates in a side crop then I think algebra would give us the sheet width. Not a lot to work with here but I think there is scratch between "u" in Subjects and "Pi" in Piedmont. Add in a few stray distinctive marks and someone might recognize it.

I previously owned that card... I don't believe there's a plate scratch on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pat R]

Erick, I think Steve is referring to the short mark I circled in red but you
had it in hand and got a better look at it than what can be seen in the
small scans.

When you originally posted scans of this card I was looking at trying to
find a PD 150 subject with the mark I circled in black, it looks like it's
some kind of print mark.

[Jobu]

I just did a quick scan through all of the images in this thread and didn't see another WaJo portrait (though I may have missed it).

[Pat R]

We do have that Johnson Bryan but the scratch on the one you posted is a
little darker so it shows up better.

There are three different Johnson scratches so far.

[Jobu]

I never thought I would say this in response to a bunch of pics of Johnson scratches, but: awesome!

[T205 GB]

I believe I have one of these. It's listed on eBay right now. Ends in less than 12 hrs. Would be cool if it actually is for the winner

[t206blogcom]

I was at a show yesterday and saw a F. Smith with a scatch on the back. Didn't pick it up, so no scan.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

I was at a show yesterday and saw a F. Smith with a scatch on the back. Didn't pick it up, so no scan.

Jason, Do you remember if it was one of these two scratches?

[Jobu]

A different Young card with the same scratch has already been posted, not sure about Schaefer.

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Jason, Do you remember if it was one of these two scratches?

Pretty sure it was Smith 1.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

Pretty sure it was Smith 1.

Thanks Jason.

Bryan- I don't know if the Schaefer has been posted here, we do have a
couple of examples with that scratch but it's always good to have new ones
posted. (So far that's the only scratch on Schaefer).

[steve_a]

I can confirm that upside down White & Doyle have matching backs. It might not be super clear in the scans but I have both in hand and they match. This means that these two cards are in opposite positions, equal rows and columns from the center, sides, top/bottom, horizontal axis, etc. If we can link either of these two to a center/side/each-other via scratch we could make a lot of progress quickly. I look forward to seeing any scratches, neighbors, two-namers, etc that you have. Another piece in the sheet-size puzzle...

[Pat R]

Nice work Steve,

Doyle is on one of the sheets that has two different subjects with identical scratches indicating the back plates were used on two different fronts.

Stone is a match for Doyle and I think the sheet with Stone on it would
have been the one that White was on because Doyle is a 150 only subject
and White isn't, so we should eventually find a Stone with the same partial
scratch that Doyle and the upside down White have.

Here's the sheet I'm referring to if you click on the link you can magnify it
and get a better look. We are still working on this sheet but I think the
Cobb/Tinker belongs on the right (back of sheet) not the left.

There are a few spots where the second subject with a matching scratch haven't been found yet and if/when a White scratch is found it will probably be a match to either Pattee, Reulbach or Burch.

http://photos.imageevent.com/patrick...et%20C-D_1.jpg

[steve_a]

That sheet is incredible Pat. If White does match one of those subjects that would indicate single subject columns. If he is found with a different set then this sheet would be one half of a huge two subject per column sheet. If he is never found with scratches he may be on another half of a two subject column that was never scratched. So many possibilities.

[Pat R]

Jantz stated in this BST thread that he thought these Stone and Elberfeld
name at tops came from the same sheet and I agree with him. They are also along side each other on the plate scratch sheet in the link I posted above.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=elberfeld

[Jobu]

This Young has already been posted but this is a much better scan (of a different card).

[mybuddyinc]

I'm not sure if this will help in any manner.

In fact, I'm not quite sure if it's a printing mark, or just added ink.

004.jpg

004a.jpg

[Luke]

A couple new ones. No idea if they're already recorded or not. Walsh is questionable, but figured I'd post it. The P150 is Schaefer.

[Econteachert205]

Bought this guy off ebay just so I could be part of this thread... sad I know

[Luke]

That's a great card Dennis. That pose is one of my favorites.

[Luke]

This Stovall has a scratch, and an over-inked back.

[Luke]

This scan should show it better. It looks like extra ink pooled up in a couple spots along the scratch.

[steve B]

That's an interesting one.

The extra ink isn't from overinking, but it is from a dry plate.

The areas on the plate that aren't supposed to print retain water which rejects the oil based ink. If it's a really dry day, or if the water to moisten the plate isn't adjusted correctly some of the small areas can dry out making them retain ink. (If it's really bad the larger areas can dry out too. )

Steve B

[Jobu]

Evers and Camnitz

[SushiX37]

George Gibson. Picked this up a few days ago. Thought about this thread and the scratch tracking.

[edhans]

I didn't see any Kleinows when I scrolled through the thread. Curious that the mark appears to end at the diagonal lines under the word "subjects". Might this mean that the card was in the far right column (as you're viewing the backs) of the sheet?

[Pat R]

I already had this Wilhelm scratch documented but there is another one listed
on ebay and I noticed they both have a yellow circle on his hip above the W
after checking scans of 200+ Wilhelm's I only found one more with this yellow
circle but there was no back scan (the second one in the cardtarget link).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-1909-11...item35f00ed1d7

http://www.cardtarget.com/cgi-bin/gm...submit=Display

[Pat R]

With the evidence we have gathered so far we know there are 4-5 different
PD 150 sheets that have "plate scratches" on them, two of the back sheets had
two different sets of fronts printed on them the remaining 2-3 only had one
set of fronts printed with their back plates. Mordecai Brown (Cubs On Shirt)
was on one of the sheets that had two different fronts, there are three different
M. Brown scratches and there was one Johnny Kling scratch that matched
one of the Brown scratches. I put together a list of what I call "unconfirmed"
scratches which included the two missing Kling scratches that should match
M. Brown. After three years of searching I found one of the Kling's that matches one of the Brown scratches, it even has the same squiggle mark.

[atx840]

Excellent work Pat, you've made some great progress on this project.

[steve B]

Pat has gone far far beyond what I'd ever imagined was possible. Truly amazing.

To make it more interesting......I finally saw a card that really looks like one of the scratched plates was either reworked or wasn't resurfaced all that well before having the P350 backs laid down. And that at least two groups of fronts were printed with this reworked plate.

Charles


Delehanty portrait



It appears to be the same scratch as one on Powell in the P150 series.

Steve B

[Pat R]

I didn't want to hijack Mike (bocabirdmans) thread on the BST. He has a
Wilhelm for sale with a plate scratch that shows how consistent not only
the scratches on the backs are but also how consistent the fronts can be.

Here's the example I have with the same plate scratch as Mikes, when you look at the front of mine you would think the dots coming from his nose and
mouth area are stains but if you look at the one Mike has for sale it has the
same exact marks along with identical defects in the top right border.

[T206Collector]

From the BST. Pretty cool.