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  #201  
Old 04-24-2015, 03:27 PM
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A couple matching Waddells:
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File Type: jpg WaddellThrow$50 a.jpg (72.6 KB, 379 views)
File Type: jpg WaddellThrow$50 b.jpg (71.0 KB, 378 views)
File Type: jpg WaddellThrow$60 a.jpg (72.8 KB, 377 views)
File Type: jpg WaddellThrow$60 b.jpg (71.7 KB, 379 views)
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  #202  
Old 04-24-2015, 03:51 PM
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Luke, Here's the waddell scratch that's under your Waddells.
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File Type: jpg Waddell _throwing_ 1 Back_1.jpg (71.3 KB, 376 views)
File Type: jpg Waddell _throwing_ 1_1.jpg (68.9 KB, 375 views)
File Type: jpg Waddell _throwing_ 1 Back_1 - Copy.jpg (67.4 KB, 378 views)
File Type: jpg Waddell _throwing_ 2 Back_1.jpg (71.8 KB, 377 views)
File Type: jpg Waddell _throwing_ 2_1.jpg (68.7 KB, 376 views)
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  #203  
Old 04-24-2015, 04:01 PM
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Awesome!
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  #204  
Old 04-27-2015, 09:43 PM
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Donlin
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File Type: jpg Donlin hands on knees P150 a.jpg (77.9 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg Donlin hands on knees P150 b.jpg (75.1 KB, 351 views)
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  #205  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:55 AM
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I finally figured out how to load an image big enough to show how scratches
on the same subjects line up in multiple places. It takes a minute to load
but when it does you can click on the image to enlarge it.

Based on the crop mark on the Oldring scratch in the bottom right this should
be part of the right hand side (left front) of a sheet that I'm still working on.

http://photos.imageevent.com/patrick...20-%20Copy.jpg
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  #206  
Old 05-02-2015, 01:59 PM
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Nice Pat, great work.
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  #207  
Old 05-13-2015, 12:02 PM
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I was going through my Polar Bears and spotted this scratch on the back of my Mullen.
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File Type: jpg Mullen Back.jpg (73.9 KB, 295 views)
File Type: jpg Mullen Front.jpg (74.2 KB, 296 views)
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  #208  
Old 05-13-2015, 11:36 PM
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Nice Luke!

There are a few other players with Polar Bear backs that this line appears on. Almost in the same location as well.

Thanks for posting the Mullen.


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  #209  
Old 05-15-2015, 02:56 PM
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Another Oldring
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File Type: jpg t206line.jpg (69.8 KB, 279 views)
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  #210  
Old 05-17-2015, 03:01 PM
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Oldring has a crop mark and a weak WST too, quite a bit happening there.

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Originally Posted by Laxcat View Post
Another Oldring
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  #211  
Old 05-17-2015, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
Oldring has a crop mark and a weak WST too, quite a bit happening there.
Does that mean it was at the end of the sheet and different? card was in the same spot on the next sheet? I'm quite new to the prewar stuff.
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  #212  
Old 05-17-2015, 05:21 PM
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It's a corner crop. I posted these two with the same scratch earlier in
this thread.
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File Type: jpg Oldring 2a Back.jpg (81.1 KB, 333 views)
File Type: jpg Oldring 2a.jpg (78.8 KB, 331 views)
File Type: jpg Oldring 2b back.jpg (82.8 KB, 331 views)
File Type: jpg Oldring 2b.jpg (79.6 KB, 331 views)
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  #213  
Old 05-17-2015, 11:18 PM
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I hope you are enjoying learning about these - I can attest to how addicting it can be. I commented because I think it is always good to point things out and not assume that everyone knows what is being shown.

As Pat showed, this is a corner crop. The edges of the sheets had margins that were trimmed off after the cards were printed. Oldring appears to have been at the bottom right of his sheet (at least for Piedmont 150) as you can see by the location of the crop mark.

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Originally Posted by Laxcat View Post
Does that mean it was at the end of the sheet and different? card was in the same spot on the next sheet? I'm quite new to the prewar stuff.
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  #214  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:36 PM
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Here is one for your studies: Nicholls, Phila. Amer. Hope this helps!



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  #215  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:50 PM
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Camnitz
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File Type: jpg camnitz plate scratch 150 a.jpg (74.2 KB, 291 views)
File Type: jpg camnitz plate scratch 150 b.jpg (74.5 KB, 292 views)
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  #216  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullinsm View Post
Here is one for your studies: Nicholls, Phila. Amer. Hope this helps!



It Does help thanks for posting the scans, this scratch is in one of the sheets
we are working on (there is a link in post #205). There is part of a second
scratch on this Nicholls (through the T and Y in quality and part of the scroll)
that matches up with a second scratch on one of the Jacklitch scratches and
it shows up a little clearer on yours.


Luke, I saw that Camnitz when it was listed. Good price on it but I already had
one in a little rougher condition.
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File Type: jpg Camnitz 1 Back .jpg (80.9 KB, 286 views)

Last edited by Pat R; 05-22-2015 at 01:26 PM.
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  #217  
Old 06-02-2015, 06:10 PM
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Below is (not mine) an upside down Doc White. Since it is upside down the back should be from a column equal columns from the center. For instance, given columns ABCD a typical A back would be a D when upside down. If we can match this back to a right-side-up player we have another data point on sheet width. If both players can be linked by a multi-column horizontal scratch that terminates in a side crop then I think algebra would give us the sheet width. Not a lot to work with here but I think there is scratch between "u" in Subjects and "Pi" in Piedmont. Add in a few stray distinctive marks and someone might recognize it.
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File Type: jpg whiteUD.jpg (77.9 KB, 262 views)
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  #218  
Old 06-02-2015, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
It Does help thanks for posting the scans, this scratch is in one of the sheets
we are working on (there is a link in post #205). There is part of a second
scratch on this Nicholls (through the T and Y in quality and part of the scroll)
that matches up with a second scratch on one of the Jacklitch scratches and
it shows up a little clearer on yours.


Luke, I saw that Camnitz when it was listed. Good price on it but I already had
one in a little rougher condition.
Great, glad I could help! The sheet image you directed me to is INCREDIBLE detective work. Thanks for your efforts - BRAVO!
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  #219  
Old 06-02-2015, 07:53 PM
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Default Piedmont 150 plate scratch(es) progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_a View Post
Below is (not mine) an upside down Doc White. Since it is upside down the back should be from a column equal columns from the center. For instance, given columns ABCD a typical A back would be a D when upside down. If we can match this back to a right-side-up player we have another data point on sheet width. If both players can be linked by a multi-column horizontal scratch that terminates in a side crop then I think algebra would give us the sheet width. Not a lot to work with here but I think there is scratch between "u" in Subjects and "Pi" in Piedmont. Add in a few stray distinctive marks and someone might recognize it.

I previously owned that card... I don't believe there's a plate scratch on it.


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Last edited by t206hound; 06-02-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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  #220  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:34 PM
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Erick, I think Steve is referring to the short mark I circled in red but you
had it in hand and got a better look at it than what can be seen in the
small scans.

When you originally posted scans of this card I was looking at trying to
find a PD 150 subject with the mark I circled in black, it looks like it's
some kind of print mark.
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File Type: jpg 53-38a_lg.jpg (66.6 KB, 239 views)
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  #221  
Old 06-06-2015, 11:50 PM
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I just did a quick scan through all of the images in this thread and didn't see another WaJo portrait (though I may have missed it).
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File Type: jpg Johnson front.jpg (50.3 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson back.jpg (47.7 KB, 291 views)
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  #222  
Old 06-07-2015, 07:15 AM
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We do have that Johnson Bryan but the scratch on the one you posted is a
little darker so it shows up better.

There are three different Johnson scratches so far.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Johnson 1 Back.jpg (64.6 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson 1.jpg (58.0 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson 2 Back_1.jpg (56.0 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson 2_1.jpg (56.9 KB, 283 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson 3 Back.jpg (81.6 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg Johnson 3.jpg (78.2 KB, 286 views)
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  #223  
Old 06-07-2015, 08:08 AM
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I never thought I would say this in response to a bunch of pics of Johnson scratches, but: awesome!
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  #224  
Old 06-07-2015, 09:00 AM
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I believe I have one of these. It's listed on eBay right now. Ends in less than 12 hrs. Would be cool if it actually is for the winner
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  #225  
Old 06-08-2015, 07:15 AM
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I was at a show yesterday and saw a F. Smith with a scatch on the back. Didn't pick it up, so no scan.
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  #226  
Old 06-08-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206blogcom View Post
I was at a show yesterday and saw a F. Smith with a scatch on the back. Didn't pick it up, so no scan.
Jason, Do you remember if it was one of these two scratches?
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File Type: jpg Smith 1_1_1.jpg (81.7 KB, 250 views)
File Type: jpg Smith 1 Back_1.jpg (81.1 KB, 249 views)
File Type: jpg Smith 2 Back_1.jpg (81.6 KB, 248 views)
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  #227  
Old 06-11-2015, 10:03 PM
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A different Young card with the same scratch has already been posted, not sure about Schaefer.
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File Type: jpg Schaefer.jpg (34.1 KB, 231 views)
File Type: jpg Young.jpg (74.9 KB, 229 views)
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  #228  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Jason, Do you remember if it was one of these two scratches?
Pretty sure it was Smith 1.
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  #229  
Old 06-12-2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206blogcom View Post
Pretty sure it was Smith 1.
Thanks Jason.

Bryan- I don't know if the Schaefer has been posted here, we do have a
couple of examples with that scratch but it's always good to have new ones
posted. (So far that's the only scratch on Schaefer).
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  #230  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:25 PM
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Default Upside down White & Doyle

I can confirm that upside down White & Doyle have matching backs. It might not be super clear in the scans but I have both in hand and they match. This means that these two cards are in opposite positions, equal rows and columns from the center, sides, top/bottom, horizontal axis, etc. If we can link either of these two to a center/side/each-other via scratch we could make a lot of progress quickly. I look forward to seeing any scratches, neighbors, two-namers, etc that you have. Another piece in the sheet-size puzzle...
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File Type: jpg udWhite_Doyle.jpg (50.0 KB, 195 views)
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  #231  
Old 06-26-2015, 02:25 PM
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Nice work Steve,

Doyle is on one of the sheets that has two different subjects with identical scratches indicating the back plates were used on two different fronts.

Stone is a match for Doyle and I think the sheet with Stone on it would
have been the one that White was on because Doyle is a 150 only subject
and White isn't, so we should eventually find a Stone with the same partial
scratch that Doyle and the upside down White have.

Here's the sheet I'm referring to if you click on the link you can magnify it
and get a better look. We are still working on this sheet but I think the
Cobb/Tinker belongs on the right (back of sheet) not the left.

There are a few spots where the second subject with a matching scratch haven't been found yet and if/when a White scratch is found it will probably be a match to either Pattee, Reulbach or Burch.

http://photos.imageevent.com/patrick...et%20C-D_1.jpg
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File Type: jpg Doyle 1b Back.jpg (80.5 KB, 249 views)
File Type: jpg Doyle 2 Back_1.jpg (80.7 KB, 248 views)
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  #232  
Old 06-26-2015, 06:48 PM
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That sheet is incredible Pat. If White does match one of those subjects that would indicate single subject columns. If he is found with a different set then this sheet would be one half of a huge two subject per column sheet. If he is never found with scratches he may be on another half of a two subject column that was never scratched. So many possibilities.
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  #233  
Old 06-27-2015, 06:21 PM
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Jantz stated in this BST thread that he thought these Stone and Elberfeld
name at tops came from the same sheet and I agree with him. They are also along side each other on the plate scratch sheet in the link I posted above.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=elberfeld
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File Type: jpg Stone-Elberfeld.jpg (48.8 KB, 231 views)

Last edited by Pat R; 06-27-2015 at 06:41 PM.
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  #234  
Old 06-29-2015, 07:24 PM
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This Young has already been posted but this is a much better scan (of a different card).
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File Type: jpg Young front 1.JPG (57.2 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg Young back 1.jpg (66.3 KB, 215 views)
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  #235  
Old 07-02-2015, 06:12 PM
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I'm not sure if this will help in any manner.

In fact, I'm not quite sure if it's a printing mark, or just added ink.

004.jpg

004a.jpg
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  #236  
Old 07-08-2015, 01:32 AM
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A couple new ones. No idea if they're already recorded or not. Walsh is questionable, but figured I'd post it. The P150 is Schaefer.

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File Type: jpg Walsh VGEX a.jpg (71.9 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg Walsh VGEX b.jpg (71.1 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg Schaeffer P150 a.jpg (7.4 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg LY88Back1027_lg.jpg (7.7 KB, 178 views)

Last edited by Luke; 07-08-2015 at 01:37 AM. Reason: can't get the Schaefer any larger, will edit later
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  #237  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:20 PM
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Bought this guy off ebay just so I could be part of this thread... sad I know
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File Type: jpg camfront.jpg (78.4 KB, 158 views)
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  #238  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:43 PM
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That's a great card Dennis. That pose is one of my favorites.
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  #239  
Old 07-28-2015, 02:36 PM
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This Stovall has a scratch, and an over-inked back.
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File Type: jpg img918.jpg (77.9 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg img919.jpg (77.3 KB, 132 views)
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  #240  
Old 07-28-2015, 02:47 PM
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This scan should show it better. It looks like extra ink pooled up in a couple spots along the scratch.
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File Type: jpg img937.jpg (79.0 KB, 130 views)

Last edited by Luke; 07-28-2015 at 02:48 PM.
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  #241  
Old 07-28-2015, 09:23 PM
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That's an interesting one.

The extra ink isn't from overinking, but it is from a dry plate.

The areas on the plate that aren't supposed to print retain water which rejects the oil based ink. If it's a really dry day, or if the water to moisten the plate isn't adjusted correctly some of the small areas can dry out making them retain ink. (If it's really bad the larger areas can dry out too. )

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  #242  
Old 07-28-2015, 10:28 PM
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Evers and Camnitz
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File Type: jpg Camnitz compress.jpg (66.5 KB, 625 views)
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  #243  
Old 08-02-2015, 08:38 PM
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George Gibson. Picked this up a few days ago. Thought about this thread and the scratch tracking.
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  #244  
Old 08-06-2015, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Plate scratches

I didn't see any Kleinows when I scrolled through the thread. Curious that the mark appears to end at the diagonal lines under the word "subjects". Might this mean that the card was in the far right column (as you're viewing the backs) of the sheet?

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  #245  
Old 08-21-2015, 07:26 AM
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I already had this Wilhelm scratch documented but there is another one listed
on ebay and I noticed they both have a yellow circle on his hip above the W
after checking scans of 200+ Wilhelm's I only found one more with this yellow
circle but there was no back scan (the second one in the cardtarget link).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-1909-11...item35f00ed1d7

http://www.cardtarget.com/cgi-bin/gm...submit=Display
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File Type: jpg Wilhelm 2 (2).jpg (79.4 KB, 563 views)
File Type: jpg Wilhelm 2 Back.jpg (81.7 KB, 561 views)

Last edited by Pat R; 08-21-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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  #246  
Old 08-29-2015, 10:27 AM
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With the evidence we have gathered so far we know there are 4-5 different
PD 150 sheets that have "plate scratches" on them, two of the back sheets had
two different sets of fronts printed on them the remaining 2-3 only had one
set of fronts printed with their back plates. Mordecai Brown (Cubs On Shirt)
was on one of the sheets that had two different fronts, there are three different
M. Brown scratches and there was one Johnny Kling scratch that matched
one of the Brown scratches. I put together a list of what I call "unconfirmed"
scratches which included the two missing Kling scratches that should match
M. Brown. After three years of searching I found one of the Kling's that matches one of the Brown scratches, it even has the same squiggle mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kling%20Back_1.jpg (80.4 KB, 541 views)
File Type: jpg Brown M..jpg (78.2 KB, 541 views)
File Type: jpg Kling.jpg (78.4 KB, 544 views)
File Type: jpg Kling Back.jpg (81.7 KB, 542 views)
File Type: jpg Brown M. Back Crop.jpg (35.8 KB, 542 views)
File Type: jpg Kling Back Hi -Res - Copy - Copy.jpg (37.9 KB, 541 views)
File Type: jpg Brown M. Back.jpg (81.4 KB, 541 views)
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  #247  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:21 PM
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atx840 atx840 is offline
Chris Browne
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Excellent work Pat, you've made some great progress on this project.
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  #248  
Old 08-29-2015, 06:23 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Pat has gone far far beyond what I'd ever imagined was possible. Truly amazing.

To make it more interesting......I finally saw a card that really looks like one of the scratched plates was either reworked or wasn't resurfaced all that well before having the P350 backs laid down. And that at least two groups of fronts were printed with this reworked plate.

Charles


Delehanty portrait



It appears to be the same scratch as one on Powell in the P150 series.

Steve B
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  #249  
Old 09-21-2015, 06:39 AM
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Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
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I didn't want to hijack Mike (bocabirdmans) thread on the BST. He has a
Wilhelm for sale with a plate scratch that shows how consistent not only
the scratches on the backs are but also how consistent the fronts can be.

Here's the example I have with the same plate scratch as Mikes, when you look at the front of mine you would think the dots coming from his nose and
mouth area are stains but if you look at the one Mike has for sale it has the
same exact marks along with identical defects in the top right border.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Wilhelm%20Back_1.jpg (80.5 KB, 491 views)
File Type: jpg Wilhelm_1.jpg (78.6 KB, 495 views)
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  #250  
Old 09-21-2015, 11:28 AM
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From the BST. Pretty cool.
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