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#351
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Greg hasn't heard back from SGC yet.
__________________
T206 gallery |
#352
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Bussineau
I find that hard to believe considering an expensive card like that would get next day or the most 3 day turnaround.
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#353
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I think you meant "wouldn't get next day". If the owner sent it in 2 weeks ago I DOUBT he doesn't have an answer. Perhaps SGC owner could be on vacation and wants to personally look into it? What is the current pop on that card?
__________________
Rich@rd Lap@int |
#354
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I still think the Gehrigs are two different cards. There is a white dot below the
R in Gehrig at the very bottom where the blue meets the white border on the 8.5 there is a smaller version on the 6.5 but it does not break the line where the blue meets the white like the 8.5 does. |
#355
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Greg
When you send in a card like that you ARE going to pay for next day service. If he sent it in 2 weeks ago, he does have an answer.
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#356
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If he has an answer, why is it a secret?
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#357
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Quote:
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#358
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Bussineau
Birds of a feather.
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#359
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Quote:
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#360
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I posted my comment accidentally before finishing my point. It just seems to me that the subjectivity inherent in the grading process should over time reduce the large disparity in values at the high end.
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#361
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did rick ever say why this guy still is allowed to consign with him still?
the silence is deafening..... |
#362
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Quote:
On another note, tomorrow has been 3 weeks since Greg B removed that '34 Gehrig from eBay and sent it back to SGC. I wonder if he's heard anything back yet? |
#363
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#364
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Quote:
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#365
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Quote:
We do a great job of complaining about the ills in the hobby but most of us are very poor at going without.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years." |
#366
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Can't tell you how many times in the last few weeks I have clicked on a card, seen it was Probestein, and decided not to bid. I don't know if I can continue this forever because the guy has some nice looking cards, but I hope to never buy from him again unless he bans JP from his auctions and makes an effort to combat shill bidding.
d avid $hip$ey Last edited by slipk1068; 09-17-2013 at 04:06 AM. |
#367
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Quote:
How do you know they're his? Steve B |
#368
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Quote:
Click on the store icon next to Probstein's username (to the right of the about me page). The various store names appear on the left side of the page. Panky's store is "The GEM Collection" Click on "The GEM Collection" and search by "Butkus" This result will pop up... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Philade...ht_1036wt_1042 The Butkus card can be linked back to when Panky bought it in this auction... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Philade...#ht_1458wt_932 That's one example. You can find many more if you're willing to do the research. It's definitely Pank's cards/store. Rick is a douchebag for letting Panky still consign with him knowing he doctors cards and shills his own auctions. |
#369
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I wonder if the SGC population report will be changed, (revised) after they review the 34 Goudey Gehrig? Dave.
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#370
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Pank just won this one. Study the pics, will a higher graded version of this exact card be made available in the near future? After all he does have a keen eye for this stuff!
http://tinyurl.com/n2js5du
__________________
Rich@rd Lap@int |
#371
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Quote:
by most. |
#372
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Quote:
Some of the biggest complainers in this thread about him have bought NUMEROUS cards from him in the last month...HYPOCRITS!!!... |
#373
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D.P.- Interesting observation, because this has been going on for what seems like months....
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#374
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Eraser marks?
If you look at the blown up scans in the description area you can see what appears to be erased writing on the right side of the card. It is difficult to tell from the scans, but it looks like it could grade maybe a 4, or maybe authentic.
Rick
__________________
Rick McQuillan T213-2 139 down 46 to go. |
#375
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Quote:
Wow!! Very interesting. |
#376
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Not me. I haven't bid on any of his stuff since it was discovered that Pank was shilling his own cards. I kind of gave Rick the benefit of the doubt last time thinking he would ban Pank as a bidder and consignor and that would be the end of it. It turns out that Rick doesn't give a crap, hasn't done anything about it and therefore I won't be bidding on any of his auctions in the future.
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#377
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Quote:
Brent ingr@m
__________________
Tiger collector Need: E121 Veach arms folded Monster Number 520/520 Last edited by brewing; 09-19-2013 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Included my name and clearly defined my stance. |
#378
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Quote:
i think this thread just passed the (fake packs & an FBI investigation) thread as the most viewed post of 2013 people love controversy NICE!!! |
#379
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For what it's worth, this card appears accurately graded to me....
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#380
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Those corners & edges certainly don't warrant a 7 in any way---6 would be pushing it!
Let's wait until it resurfaces--then a 7 maybe!
__________________
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it. |
#381
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I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I feel there is still a really important issue here that hasn't been resolved. 4 weeks ago today, Greg Bussineau removed the '34 Goudey from his eBay auction and sent it back to SGC for re-evaluation - that's the one that went from a PSA 6.5 ($7300 card) to an SGC 8.5 ($40K card) - see post #98 in this thread.
Surely they've had time to look at it by now. Does anybody have an update of the Gehrig card or does anybody know Greg and, if so, can they ask him what SGC said about this card? Surely SGC wouldn't sweep this problem under the rug like PSA does their problems, would they? |
#382
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Can sgc pop report be checked to see if it's changed? I thought Greg was a good guy, why no response?
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#383
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I'm certainly curious!
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#384
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Quote:
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#385
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Or maybe (hopefully) an attorney/s (and/or law enforcement) have gotten involved and they have told their client/s to not discuss what is going on.....
David |
#386
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Generally speaking if a card gets bumped 2 grades up or down, it's not a law enforcement issue. It's hard to take action against an opinion or opinions.
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#387
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Sorry but when a card changes appearance or size it no longer falls under opinion.
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#388
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Leon,
I thought Greg Bussineau bought the card and was trying to sell it? So, I was talking about him buying the card thinking it was good and then being told it was bad and him going after the person who sold it to him. Maybe the attorney's have gotten involved between Greg and SGC or Greg and the person he bought the card from. Maybe law enforcement has gotten involved because the person Greg bought the card from has been caught doing these same types of shenanigans on more than one occasion so "an honest mistake" can not be used as an excuse. David Last edited by ctownboy; 09-24-2013 at 11:53 AM. |
#389
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Greg hasn't hear back as of the 16th, suggested we reach out to SGC.
__________________
T206 gallery |
#390
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No, but it does fall under too difficult to prove.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#391
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SGC is going to disclose the result of a private submssion? How likely is that? If hypothetically they decertified it would that show up in a pop report though?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-24-2013 at 12:04 PM. |
#392
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Got it. Tough to take a few seconds to look and see clear evidence in the before and after pics.
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#393
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One man's clear is another man's cloudy.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#394
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#395
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There's also the problem of proving exactly who did the alterations. People who doctor cards typically don't admit it and the cards pass through numerous hands starting from initial purchase to the grading company and to then to the final sale.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
#396
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Quote:
Few admit to crimes that is why there is law enforcement. Card doctors are the furthest thing from hardened criminals. A hint of pressure and I am pretty assure they admit to plenty. If you simply ask casually, I agree they do not admit it. There is plenty of paper trail if one were to want to make the effort. |
#397
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I could be naïve, but it seems to me a government that proves the most sophisticated financial crimes and forgeries or extracts plea bargains could, if it wished, nab some brazen idiots working with sandpaper and files and solvents, and buying openly on ebay. But as I said I could be naïve.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#398
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I am the one who could be naive. A man buys a card (graded) cracks it out then cleans, trims, colors, doctors, whatever to it then resubmits it (remaining silent) and it gets a higher grade....then he sells it for a big profit. Has he done anything illegal? Unethical perhaps, but I don't know what law he is breaking. Help me understand.
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#399
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Quote:
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#400
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Quote:
It is called fraud. "Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result." - http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud In the PSA agreement: "Customer represents and warrants that it has no knowledge and no reasonable basis to believe that any card submitted for grading has been altered in any way or is not genuine." So if someone knowingly alters a card and submits it, they meet items 1 and 2. Let's say PSA doesn't catch it and slabs it as graded. If the submitter then sells the card, they have then met item 3, and assuming that the buyer is relying on the PSA grade (item 4 and the signed PSA agreement) and would not knowingly pay the same price for an altered card (item 5), the seller has now met all 5 criteria for fraud. The extent of PSA's liability does not matter regarding the actions of the original submitter. The original submitter, without full disclosure to the buyer, could still be committing an act of fraud. Maybe the lawyers could explain it a little better than I? |
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