Heritage Live Auction -- Black Swamp debacle

[Leon]

When I spoke with the executor of the estate one of his main concerns was for transparency with this find. He made it very clear to me that he didn't want hobbyists to get burnt by releasing some cards very slowly. I thought that was very classy of him and it was indicative of our conversation and the way the family is. I believe they were happy with the bidding where it was when the live bidding opened. Sure, everyone hopes to get more for the valuables but there are actually some kind and good people in this world. I wish our hobby was so nice sometimes. Sometimes it's not about going for the jugular it's about doing the right thing.

[calvindog]

The family was very happy when the live bidding opened? What does that mean? Were they very happy when the live bidding closed after being told that the $1 million estimate was 760K too high?

But if the family insisted upon releasing the full extent of the find instead of selling the cards a bit at the time then the fault lies with them -- assuming they were given good advice.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The family was very happy when the live bidding opened? What does that mean? Were they very happy when the live bidding closed after being told that the $1 million estimate was 760K too high?

But if the family insisted upon releasing the full extent of the find instead of selling the cards a bit at the time then the fault lies with them -- assuming they were given good advice.

It means they were happy with where the prices were when the Live bidding opened. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

[barrysloate]

If somebody in the hobby found these they would have done this much differently. This family was outside the hobby and likely didn't understand the nuances the way we would.

That said, if the cards went for 25% of their estimated value then clearly something didn't work out. The family may be happy because they have nothing into them and didn't even know they had them until a few months ago. I guess there are going to be some bargains down the road.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If somebody in the hobby found these they would have done this much differently.

If cows shi* butter we wouldn't have to churn.

If my uncle had boobs he would be my aunt.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by Leon

If cows shi* butter we wouldn't have to churn.

If my uncle had boobs he would be my aunt.

LOL!


It really is hard to complain about finding cards in an attic and walking away with $250,000..

The shrewd move would have been to sell these suckers periodically. I understand it's in the best interest of the hobby not to "sneak" in these cards, but as an auction house your best interest should always be getting the best possible (legal) price.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

LOL!


It really is hard to complain about finding cards in an attic and walking away with $250,000..

The shrewd move would have been to sell these suckers periodically. I understand it's in the best interest of the hobby not to "sneak" in these cards, but as an auction house your best interest should always be getting the best possible (legal) price.

To me, the shrewd move is to give the consignor all possible information and then do as they ask, within your boundaries. I think most auctioneers would agree. Otherwise, the consignor can take their wares elsewhere.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Leon

If cows shi* butter we wouldn't have to churn.

If my uncle had boobs he would be my aunt.

Good thinking Leon!

WTT: 1 butter shi**ing cow for E98 Wagner. Condition not important (in regards to the cow, not the Wagner)...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If somebody in the hobby found these they would have done this much differently. This family was outside the hobby and likely didn't understand the nuances the way we would.

That said, if the cards went for 25% of their estimated value then clearly something didn't work out. The family may be happy because they have nothing into them and didn't even know they had them until a few months ago. I guess there are going to be some bargains down the road.

No one can possibly believe this family is happy after last night.

[T206Collector]

It would have been fraudulent not to disclose the material fact of other high grade E98s in their possession when trying to sell purportedly "low pop" cards.

My guess is they were wary of the indictments of the Legendary principals, and just wanted to make sure they weren't going to stand in front of a federal jury.

[ullmandds]

Really? So if they only had 1 or 2 graded...the pop would still be very low...probably unique. Technically they don't know how the others will eventually grade. This would be fraudulent?

Does this have anything to do with that whole "prudent" man stuff?

[keithsky]

I would think they went with Heritage because of reputation they have and how big and experienced they are and if they told me I could get close to a million for these cards and only got 250,000 I think I would be a little disappointed even though it was money i didn't have. Would have made me think I should have gone elswhere. I would have trusted there knowledge of the market when they told me I could get a million. Always factors that dictate what something will sell for but the gap between a million and 250 is not even close. Still a nice chunk of money they never had

[brianp-beme]

The estimate I saw in the paper (a national press release) was that the lots had an estimate of about $500,000 total, and that the bidding on these lots reached $566,000. One million seems an out of line estimate to me. In the long run I think the family did good, as long as they time the release of future lots/singles in a way that will maintain interest in this incredible find.

Brian

[E93]

I think they did it the right way. It was honest. For what it is worth, the three lots sold for about a half a million. The Wagner was $238k with juice, the set was over $280k with juice, and the other lot went for over 40k with juice. Those numbers were about what I expected given what is lined up behind them. Still impressive! The other factor is Heritage got a ton of press due to the enormity of the find which would not have happened if they slowly leaked them. It is hard to know how that will impact all this in the short and long term. The bottom line in my book is that it was the honest way to do it.
JimB

[jimross]

"fraudulent not to disclose the material fact of other high grade E98s in their possession when trying to sell purportedly "low pop" cards."???

That's a fraudulent act??? yeah right! Come on!!!!

If u have three Honus Wagner signed t206 and want to sell one, I am 100% certain u wouldn't want to tell people u have two more to sell later.

[npa589]

Originally Posted by calvindog

No one can possibly believe this family is happy after last night.

Well, this is not entirely true - I believe this family could be happy after last night. There is such a thing as not being consumed by greed. There are families, and there are people, that still have this type of character and perspective.

Just my opinion of course.

.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by npa589

Well, this is not entirely true - I believe this family could be happy after last night. There is such a thing as not being consumed by greed. There are families, and there are people, that still have this type of character and perspective.

Just my opinion of course.

.

One is not "consumed by greed" if they're led to believe their cards are worth a million bucks and they only see 240K, comeon. You can't possibly blame them for being unhappy about the auction.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by npa589

Well, this is not entirely true - I believe this family could be happy after last night. There is such a thing as not being consumed by greed. There are families, and there are people, that still have this type of character and perspective.

Just my opinion of course.

.

then they could have just given the cards away then, i would have taken one.


there were 20 members of this family. their cadillac turned into a used hundai.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Leon

When I spoke with the executor of the estate one of his main concerns was for transparency with this find. He made it very clear to me that he didn't want hobbyists to get burnt by releasing some cards very slowly. I thought that was very classy of him and it was indicative of our conversation and the way the family is. I believe they were happy with the bidding where it was when the live bidding opened. Sure, everyone hopes to get more for the valuables but there are actually some kind and good people in this world. I wish our hobby was so nice sometimes. Sometimes it's not about going for the jugular it's about doing the right thing.

that is awesome to hear.
very cool perspective they had - and nice of them to want transparency.

[Davy_Kangaroo_Jones]

Originally Posted by Leon

When I spoke with the executor of the estate one of his main concerns was for transparency with this find. He made it very clear to me that he didn't want hobbyists to get burnt by releasing some cards very slowly. I thought that was very classy of him and it was indicative of our conversation and the way the family is. I believe they were happy with the bidding where it was when the live bidding opened. Sure, everyone hopes to get more for the valuables but there are actually some kind and good people in this world. I wish our hobby was so nice sometimes. Sometimes it's not about going for the jugular it's about doing the right thing.

Absolutely agree.