Rip

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

Who was the young pitcher for the Florida Marlins that died in a boat crash? I think he is a prime example.

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Tim Crews and Steve Olin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by todeen

Who was the young pitcher for the Florida Marlins that died in a boat crash? I think he is a prime example.

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Jose Fernandez.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Not before Freehan.... and probably not at all.

I think that's right, although I wouldn't mind seeing him in either.

[Jcfowler6]

Injury can be tricky.

I think of guys like Doug Dravecky losing an arm. That didn’t seem to help him in the long term. Maybe it did in some odd way. Some may remember him just because if that injury.

Roy Campanella gained much publicity and increased in fame due to being paralyzed I think . He was a much better player.

I think the teams market and the talent of the player that makes the most impact.

Death:

I always think of Clemente and Munson. Both are immortalized partly because of their early deaths but also because of talent.

You see many players die too young. Most slip into history.


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[MikeGarcia]

[QUOTE=Jcfowler6;2139372]Injury can be tricky.

I think of guys like Doug Dravecky losing an arm. That didn’t seem to help him in the long term. Maybe it did in some odd way. Some may remember him just because if that injury.

.

..it helps if , when you lose your leg in a hunting accident , they get Jimmy Stewart to play you in a movie....for you youngsters out there , this is Monty Stratton....

..

[drmondobueno]

Kenny Hubbs died young back in the ‘60’s. Way too soon, just a shocker to me as a ten year old kid. Made no sense then, today I feel the same.

[Seven]

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Death of someone young is almost always tragic, never mind the sports impact, they had they're entire lives in front of them and then were robbed by either tragic accident or tragic illness.

Even the Players that had long, storied, careers only to die near the end or just after the end of them is terrible. Mathewson, and Gehrig come to mind in this case for baseball, a more recent example would be Kobe Bryant.

Mathewson was a young man when he died, just 45 years old, had so much more of life ahead of him. Gehrig's tragic health not only derailed his career but robbed him of his life. Both extremely successful in their given careers and both taken from this earth way too soon.

[molenick]

In terns of injuries, I think Mattingly's back issues hurt both his HOF chances and his card prices. At one point, his rookie card was the hottest thing in the hobby. And I never understood why Puckett was a first ballot HOFer and the most votes Mattingly ever received was 28%. I'll give Puckett a slight edge because he put up his stats as a centerfielder and was a major contributor to two World Series winning teams (and had a higher WAR if you care about that kind of thing 51.1 to 42.4). But the difference in them as players is not that great that one should be first ballot and the other not get close.

Interestingly, Mattingly is the most similar player to Puckett.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Death of someone young is almost always tragic, never mind the sports impact, they had they're entire lives in front of them and then were robbed by either tragic accident or tragic illness.

Even the Players that had long, storied, careers only to die near the end or just after the end of them is terrible. Mathewson, and Gehrig come to mind in this case for baseball, a more recent example would be Kobe Bryant.

Mathewson was a young man when he died, just 45 years old, had so much more of life ahead of him. Gehrig's tragic health not only derailed his career but robbed him of his life. Both extremely successful in their given careers and both taken from this earth way too soon.

Ruth was 53.
Kirby Puckett was 46.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Agreed. 5 years ago I would have argued Clayton Kershaw's trajectory was to be in the argument for greatest pitcher of all time. If he had aged like Scherzer or Verlander I think it becomes very difficult to argue against the idea. Because he's been fragile (though still pretty good when he takes the mound) I don't think he will enter the discussion for GOAT even though he may be the modern ERA leader when he retires while having pitched in one of the greatest hitter eras ever.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by molenick

In terns of injuries, I think Mattingly's back issues hurt both his HOF chances and his card prices. At one point, his rookie card was the hottest thing in the hobby. And I never understood why Puckett was a first ballot HOFer and the most votes Mattingly ever received was 28%.

Almost as crazy as Trammell making the HOF and Whitaker falling off the ballot in his first vote. Wait, nothing is that crazy.

[D. Bergin]

Ok, taking the question seriously. Using Zion as an example, I would assume it would have to be a younger athlete who had shown a lot of potential, accomplished a bit, but wasn't quite considered in his prime when he passed away.

There's so many factors to go into it, it's very hard to quantify. Even something like the circumstances of his death, could come into play where value is concerned. (ie. Pat Tillman).

Zion's cards are already priced based on his massive potential. I think in his case his cards crater within a year (unless it's an autograph issue), and then slowly start regaining their value as nostalgia and myth-making build on his legacy and potential.

In basketball, the only two examples that quickly come to my mind are two Celtics. Reggie Lewis and Len Bias.

Reggie was a very good player, but not a higher level superstar. He was pretty much what he was going to be when he passed at age 27. His cards are priced as such. Not a lot of premium there, from what I can see. Maybe a little bit, based on his untimely passing.

I don't think Len Bias had any contemporary card issues, but based on the prices of some of his memorabilia, he has built quite a following despite never playing an NBA game. He was a high, #2 overall pick, and considered by many to be the top guy in what became a historically weak draft year (at least in the 1st round. 2nd round had lots of gems). He was supposed to be the Celtics.......and the NBA's next superstar. If he had 1 or 2 cards come out, I'd guess they'd be doing fairly well right now.

In my field of boxing, the first two that come to mind are Les Darcy and Salvador Sanchez. Sanchez passed at 23 but was already a dominant Champion, and considered an All-Timer today, even with the very short career. His stuff has always commanded a premium.

Les Darcy was an Australian fighter who died at 21 and flashed a lot of potential against several top American fighters who fought him in his home country. He came to the United Stated in 1916-17 or so, in order to build up his name, and got sick and died before he could ever fight again.

He's always had a fairly strong following, but not nearly that of somebody like Sanchez, who had the chance to prove himself a bit more, before his untimely death.

[samosa4u]

I think the OP didn't word the whole thing properly and that's what got him into trouble at first. But yeah, I understand what you're asking.

In the hockey world, Connor McDavid is the greatest. I've seen people pay $50,000 USD for his rookie card, and I often wonder what would happen to his card prices if he suffered a career-ending injury or something like that. He has suffered some pretty nasty injuries in the past, but recovered from them. It's pretty scary stuff. Here is one below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bni6...nnel=SPORTSNET

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hank Gathers, another BKB example.

[egri]

I haven't seen Tony Conigliaro mentioned yet. He tore it up for three years, then was beaned and was never the same. Then he had a heart attack at 37 and went into a nursing home before dying a few years later. His signed cards usually do very well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egri

I haven't seen Tony Conigliaro mentioned yet. He tore it up for three years, then was beaned and was never the same. Then he had a heart attack at 37 and went into a nursing home before dying a few years later. His signed cards usually do very well.

Two years after the beaning, he hit 36 HR and drove in 116.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Two years after the beaning, he hit 36 HR and drove in 116.

Other than a brief stint with the Red Sox in 1975, he was out of the league by 26.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egri

Other than a brief stint with the Red Sox in 1975, he was out of the league by 26.

Yes but not sure the beaning is really the explanation. His best season was subsequent to the beaning.

[Al C.risafulli]

Lots of good examples here, but from a purely hobby perspective, I just keep going back to Brien Taylor and Todd Van Poppel, whose card prices rose to then-astronomical levels based on their promise, but who never had their promise materialize, for a variety of reasons.

As a young kid, we chased rookie cards from Bob Horner and Willie Wilson for similar reasons, with similar results.

Also, John is as nice a man as there is in the hobby, and if I had a dollar for each time I worded something awkwardly, I could quit my day job.

-Al

[Forever Young]

Len bias would be a great comp. unfortunately, no cards to compare. His photos are pretty rare and costly though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Lots of good examples here, but from a purely hobby perspective, I just keep going back to Brien Taylor and Todd Van Poppel, whose card prices rose to then-astronomical levels based on their promise, but who never had their promise materialize, for a variety of reasons.

As a young kid, we chased rookie cards from Bob Horner and Willie Wilson for similar reasons, with similar results.

Also, John is as nice a man as there is in the hobby, and if I had a dollar for each time I worded something awkwardly, I could quit my day job.

-Al

In that same timeframe I recall Phil Plantier temporarily generating a lot of interest.

[BobC]

What about Brian Piccolo?

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In that same timeframe I recall Phil Plantier temporarily generating a lot of interest.

The king of hype for me as a teenager in the late '80's was Greg Jeffries '88 RC with the Mets. His rookie card at the time was going for more than Yaz's rookie card. I remember arguing with a friend how illogical that was. Even if everything broke right for Jeffries, could he possibly have had a higher career ceiling than Yaz?

[BobC]

And speaking of lost potential, there's also Ernie Davis.

[luciobar1980]

Geez Louise guys. I don't think the OP wants anyone to die. He maybe could has stated it a little more eloquently, I'll admit that. But I think it is an interesting topic.. a young rising star as hyped as a Zion. What would happen to his prices, god forbid something happened to him. Pretty morbid but an interesting thought experiment.

[D. Bergin]

Here's a thought experiment.

Bo Jackson


Remarkable hype, remarkable talent.

There's been a healthy resurgence in Bo cards and memorabilia the last couple years or so, as nostalgia and myth-making have kicked in.

For a couple decades however, you could have picked up all the early era Bo cards (Baseball and Football) you wanted, for very little investment. He had been essentially written off as a novelty by collectors.

Now, go back to 1990 or so. What if instead of dislocating his hip in a playoff game at the end of the football season, he had died in a plane crash or other incident, and we never saw his painful decent into irrelevancy on the baseball field?

He'd be a real life Roy Hobbs, without the comeback. The stories people would tell would be remarkable. His cards probably would be in the stratosphere right now.

[Eric72]

Imagine if an arm injury didn’t prematurely end the career of Nolan Ryan. He only gave us 27 seasons; however, they sure were something to watch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not that anyone collects him but

[packs]

This is a deeper cut than most mentioned but if there are any Mets fans on the board you might remember the name Brian Cole. He died in a car accident at the age of 22. He was the number 64 prospect in all of baseball heading into 2001.

This is the line from his last season between A and AA:

137 games, 19 homers, 86 rbi's, 69 SB, 301 average.

[cardinalcollector]

Oscar Taveras died at age 22. He was supposed to be the Cardinals right fielder for many years.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...averos01.shtml

[FrankWakefield]

True about Taveras. In spring training / minors George Kissell worked with him and expected a long Cardinal career... word was that when Tavaras' bat met a pitched ball that there was that rifle crack sound that rarely we hear and associate with other players. It reminded me of the sound of a ball off of the bat of Jack Clark, with that long level swing instead of the upper cut crack. When McGwire hit batting practice, players of both teams stopped and watched.

McCovey had that aura, at times, he could swing the bat hard. Eric Davis hit a ball hard like that. George Foster did. I saw Mays, Aaron, Bench, Yaz, Mantle... they had the attention of those present because of who they were, and not just because of the sound of the ball off the bat. Mentioning Mantle reminds me of Maris, he could hit a ball hard. Anyway, the sound of the ball off of Oscar Tavares' bat was different from others...

But what really needs to be said is that I think it's time this thread was put to rest.

[Bpm0014]

I didn’t think Yoda’s OP was a death wish for Zion, just a less than woke example.

People are so soft nowadays…