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#101
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Buyers change their mind. On Amazon.com, you can buy something and then cancel it before it ships and expect a refund. There is nothing unethical about this.
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#102
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Dealing with the world's largest online retailer is not analogous in my view to a one on one card transaction. So in your view it's fine to win a week long auction, then say oh I changed my mind sorry seller? That seems ridiculous to me. And just as bad, or close, on a BIN.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-28-2015 at 02:36 PM. |
#103
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I'm still not really seeing the outrage. I get it that it's annoying that you thought you bought a card, but the real anger lies in selling your card and not being able to get it back on the other end of the deal.
Everyone was squared away when it was cancelled. There isn't a lingering refund problem or a lost card in the mail. I think it's reasonable to think twice about dealing with a seller, but I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do (even though I realize no one forced him to put it up for sale). Last edited by packs; 09-28-2015 at 02:46 PM. |
#104
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Every circumstance has its own issue. I don't believe it's right buy some audio equipment, use it at your party, and then return it afterwards. Similarly, it's not right to bid in an auction that you never had any intention of paying. And I do believe that large auction companies will sue you if you do not pay your invoices. (I saw that Siegel, a large stamp auctioneer had a catalog just from the items from a large nonpaying bidder recently.) However, if you purchased a graded card that had a crease that was not visible in the online scan and was not described in the description, then I believe you have more of a case for a return. And frankly for a BIN, I believe you should be able to return or cancel anything that you want since there wouldn't be a loss on either side (other than perhaps shipping costs). Frankly, I sell on ebay, and I offer 14 day no questions asked returns (buyer pays return shipping cost). You can cancel an item before it ships, or return it for any reason, it's completely fine with me. Many of my buyers on ebay are repeat customers, so I want them to be as satisfied as possible from the transaction. If they have a bad taste in their mouth because the transaction went sour, they may not purchase from me again. And on the flip side, if they know that they will have a pleasant shopping experience when they purchase from me, then they are likely to look at my listings again and perhaps even purchase items from me even if my prices may be a bit higher than others. And I am not a big box store or retailer by any means, but just sell stuff as a hobby to support my collecting habits. Last edited by glchen; 09-28-2015 at 02:57 PM. |
#105
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more lie. |
#106
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Why does this incident need metaphors and analogies?
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#107
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You don't see why the seller should have to do something with his card that he doesn't want to do? Ummm, maybe because once he posted it for sale and accepted payment, IT WAS NO LONGER HIS CARD! He had an obligation to ship. |
#108
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Well I'm going to add my 2 cents here. Not because I should, because I have the right to remain silent, I just don't have the ability.
No one lost money? No one died? No one got put in jail? Shitty deal but both parties will live? I take it that is the last 1951 Mantle PSA 3 left on the face of the earth? No? Then I suggest you take your $3k and find another and never deal with this fellow again. Have a beer, relax, go to the bank and get all ones, spread them on the bed and jump in. No harm, no foul. The wisdom of the deuce and a little Ron White |
#109
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Or the obvious...GoBucs got a better offer somewhere and the card is (re)sold, so he cannot honor the deal...no idea if this is true but it would be simple to just honor the deal and move on...I cannot see another reason not to honor the deal.
Ding-ding-ding we have a winner Last edited by nebboy; 09-28-2015 at 03:22 PM. |
#110
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Ok dude, reading is essential. It is his card and people are telling him what to do with it. I am of the opinion it's his decision ultimately and if he doesn't want to sell, he shouldn't just because you think he should. That's all I said, that's all I implied, and personally, if that makes me an idiot then it's nice on this side of the fence instead of the one you're on. |
#111
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So is comprehension. He offered a card for sale and took payment for it. You say "I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do" and "if he doesn't want to sell, he shouldn't just because you think he should."
He ALREADY sold it. Do you not comprehend that??? This isn't something he was considering doing. He did it. Then he reneged on the deal. If you're okay with that, so be it. Your opinion is different than 99% of the rest of the board. |
#112
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That's fine. To me, the card is still yours until it's not, just like I said. People can feel however they want to feel about it, and most of us are able to express ourselves without personally insulting someone else. The point is, it's his card and I don't see why he should do what you tell him to do with it. It's his decision and he'll live with it. What is so wrong with that line of thinking? I'm not gonna jump because you say jump.
Last edited by packs; 09-28-2015 at 03:44 PM. |
#113
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#114
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Well if it's his card how come he doesn't have it? Because it wasn't his yet. Simple. Easy. Direct.
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#115
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Because the seller reneged on the deal, IDIOT!
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#116
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So the card never changed hands then, right?
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#117
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That doesn't matter. If I sell you a card, you pay for it, but I just decide to keep it, does that still make it mine just because it didn't change hands?
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#118
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Imagine if Packs bought a house and the seller reneged before the closing, and refunded the deposit. It was still the seller's house, right? No harm no foul., right?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-28-2015 at 04:35 PM. |
#119
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We're not talking about a deposit. We're talking about an item paid in full. Let's say Packs buys the house, closes, the deal is funded and then the seller changes his mind and wants to unwind the deal? Is it still the seller's house to do so? No, because it was PAID for. Same with the card. It was paid in full. Once the card is paid in full, it becomes the buyers regardless if it's still in the seller's possession or not.
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#120
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#121
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Let's put the shoe on the other foot, Peter. Let's say that the buyer had paid with a credit card through PayPal. The card is mailed, the transaction is complete. Once the buyer gets the card, he changes his mind (for no other reason than to just change his mind), call his credit card company to dispute the transaction, gets refunded, and then mails the card back to the seller. Is that fair to the seller? What's the difference?
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#122
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Maybe it's for the best-that bullsh*t centering on that Mantle would drive me nuts. He can find a much better example!
__________________
Working on the 1957 Topps set. |
#123
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Not singling you out, Peter. I agree with what you've posted. Nor am I suggesting that the B/S/T be aligned with the purchase and sale of houses. I merely think that the (prospective) buyers and sellers mentioned within this thread might have benefitted by more transparently disclosing their particular situations here. Best regards, Eric |
#124
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-28-2015 at 04:50 PM. |
#125
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#126
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Leon is there a way to block people from listing on BST like the blocks buyer/seller blocks on EBAY because I sure would like to block this potential seller.
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#127
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Sorry, Peter, I'm just fired up about this.
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#128
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Yes, Dan's attitude definitely sucks, IMO.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#129
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At the same time it had no print lines, was not out of register, and didn't have big gum stains on the back.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#130
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And Dan, I don't appreciate your profanity-laden private message either.
If you can't take the heat, go away, nobody will miss you.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-28-2015 at 05:09 PM. |
#131
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Again, I agree with you. The buyer did everything correctly, within the context of the Net54 B/S/T...and on almost every other level. Should he have sold his Mantle before having the upgrade in hand? The answer to that is open to interpretation. I personally believe (as do you, if I am not mistaken) that the OP was right in expecting the "seller" to deliver a specific performance. Would I let the original card go before having the upgrade in hand? Who knows? Does it really matter? In this particular case: "Seller" offered the card for sale Buyer negotiated with "seller" The two parties agreed upon a price Buyer delivered the money As far as I am concerned, the buyer completed their end of the transaction completely and in good faith. The "seller" backed out of a deal that was already done. Shame on them. Again, I am not singling you out or disagreeing with you regarding the main point of this discussion. Yes, Dan is a weasel for backing out of a deal that he not only negotiated with the buyer...he was also paid in full and then reneged on the deal. Best regards, Eric Last edited by Eric72; 09-28-2015 at 05:50 PM. Reason: of...or...spelling mistake. |
#132
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I nearly posted on pg. 5 but didn't. Nine pages later, I feel the need to throw in my relatively meaningless two cents.
Life is so much simpler when people follow through and do what they say they'll do. What bothers me the most about this is I somehow feel this rattles a little bit of Net54's sanctity. I know that probably sounds over the top, however, this place has always had a safer, more ethical feel to it, especially compared to ebay. I have had great transactions on the B/S/T here as a buyer and seller. Net54 is a real community. I have always appreciated how fellow collectors here help each other out and just take care of one another. Stuff like this makes me feel as though the barbarians are lurking just outside of the city walls. Last edited by vintagebaseballcardguy; 09-28-2015 at 05:19 PM. |
#133
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#134
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Can't take fair criticism, Dan? Is that the best you can do, to drop f bombs on me?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-28-2015 at 05:20 PM. |
#135
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Quite a few of you have contacted me claiming to have had similar problems with this same seller.
We really need an automated feedback system where buyers leave positive and negative feedback on transactions. Once someone gets 3 strikes or negatives, they are banned from selling. Based upon all your emails, the seller here would have been banned long ago! How is it that so many people continue to have problems with one seller but yet as a community we do nothing about it? |
#136
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will only know it was strong price if the price stays on b/s/t and have new prices to compare it too.....aside from them VCP stuff...
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#137
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+1! Eric, there are over 1,000 51 Bowman Mantle cards graded higher just in PSA holders alone. WAIT for a better one to come along, you'll forget all about this one in a hurry!
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#138
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I'm a lightweight on this website, but this has nothing to do with how long you've been on here.
I don't know the OP or seller in this case, but when the agreed amount of money exchanges hands, that should be it. There is no other way to look at it. Not morally or logically. |
#139
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You already sold Eric the card once at the agreed to price. You changed the rules of the transaction after he sent you a large sum of money. shenanigans.jpg Why Eric or anyone would consider buying from you in the future is beyond me. Paul Last edited by chernieto; 09-28-2015 at 05:32 PM. |
#140
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Bucs decided to pass the hurt onto the next guy, and Cosmo honored his deal with the guy he sold his mantle to. He didn't pass the problem along to his customer that he came to an agreement with. Kudos. This is a study in contrast on how people behave in this hobby.
Cosmo did the right thing even though he is without a mantle now, and Bucs COULD have but decided to take the snakebelly/wagon wheel rut option. |
#141
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#142
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#143
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ps....I don't know of other functionalities of our s/w but I might talk to Brian about some stuff.....we are better off than we used to be in that respect.
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 09-28-2015 at 06:03 PM. |
#144
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__________________
Leon Luckey |
#145
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I'm currently in Banning, but I am not the right person.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#146
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[QUOTE=Gobucsmagic74;1456732]I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise. QUOTE]
Any chance you could provide your ebay id and and your id on other venues so I can make sure I don't ever buy from you? I would hate to purchase something somewhere else only to have you change your mind. Thanks, Scott Last edited by cardsfan73; 09-28-2015 at 06:04 PM. |
#147
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#148
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#149
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Touched a nerve did we, Peter?
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#150
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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