"Grading Scandal" in a nutshell, please

[Phil68]

Hey guys! I am enjoying this forum so much looking at the cards and reading insights, etc. I have been collecting but really not immersed in the "2019 Grading Scandal" as I have heard and read it referred to.

What I think I know is, Brent sold some cards that were doctored and a forum called Blowout Cards brought attention to it. PSA was the TPG in offense. I read where Evan Mathis has allegedly trimmed up some rather expensive cards and has sold them? Is this all tied in together?

Is that it? Is there more? I see guys post back and forth and feel like the kid in the cafeteria without a place to sit, Lol. I'm reading about it but can't really grasp the issue beyond what I stated above.

I'm discussing with a good friend tonight that is interested in learning about it (he casually collects today's cards) and I found myself saying "Yeah, it sounds terrible. Scary stuff"...that seemed a little short and I heard myself sounding like an impeachment witness--not good.

How about a cliffs notes version--in a nutshell--what happened, what is continuing to happen and who has stepped up to be accountable and who is being a weasel. It would help a brother out AND others that troll around here could gather some information without having to bounce around thread to thread.

Facts only, if you can & Thank You!

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297767

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304959

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1289859

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Warning: the more you read, the less you'll want to purchase graded vintage cards for investment purposes. So read up!

But basically: PSA, Beckett, and SGC are all incompetent at some parts of their core job of authenticating and grading cards and autographs. A bunch of auctionhouses and trimmers either A) took advantage of that or B) conspired with the grading companies to pump up the value of their cards through fraud. SGC used to have a Grade Guarantee where they confirmed they stood behind the grades they handed out; that went missing from their website quietly a few months ago. PSA still has one, but has told their largest submitters that they have to take back the cards so there's not a run on the PSA bank/grade guarantee and so they can lie about how prevalent fraud is to their shareholders.

[Eric72]

Quick version:

Some people learned that they could get doctored cards into graded holders and sell them for massive profits. We’re probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[Johnny630]

Remember this PSA is Teflon. Accept no accountability they just offer an opinion. How can they be held responsible they can’t. Pop Report and Registry Have People Brainwashed. They Will Stay Number 1.....this will pass but collateral damage will happens for a period of time for most graded cards.

My big Key Point that interests me the most is

PSA Invitationals held twice or quarterly a year, One On One meetings with graders of your cards to “discuss”????

Vault and Major Market Manipulation Starting late 2013

My Key Bullet Points to Research

[Phil68]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297767

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304959

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1289859

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Warning: the more you read, the less you'll want to purchase graded vintage cards for investment purposes. So read up!

But basically: PSA, Beckett, and SGC are all incompetent at some parts of their core job of authenticating and grading cards and autographs. A bunch of auctionhouses and trimmers either A) took advantage of that or B) conspired with the grading companies to pump up the value of their cards through fraud. SGC used to have a Grade Guarantee where they confirmed they stood behind the grades they handed out; that went missing from their website quietly a few months ago. PSA still has one, but has told their largest submitters that they have to take back the cards so there's not a run on the PSA bank/grade guarantee and so they can lie about how prevalent fraud is to their shareholders.

I just read a bunch. This is actually REALLY serious. I have always known that PSA was in WAY over their head in terms of applying a consistent grading standard. I also figured, with the turnover and inexperience of graders, doctored cards would, doubtless, be making their way into holders...
It never occurred to me that it would be an actual scam and they would fail to be accountable in such an obvious way.

I met Joe Orlando about 20 years ago. He was a plastic fellow with limited basic intelligence but tried hard to be "one of the guys". He would "ok" bulk submissions I would do with other set-builders and we would talk sports, cards and collecting. It was a fairly transient relationship but he would actually answer my direct calls. I appreciated him.

I have watched him and his company become one of the most arrogant and unlikable group of folks in the world. I really mean that. I have a fair amount of money invested in cards that PSA has encapsulated but, I can honestly say, not once have a bought ANY card BECAUSE it was in a PSA holder. I think the fact that he has sold off a significant amount of his stock may be quite telling.

[swarmee]

The stock piece is really a red herring, IMO. The majority of those stock sales were likely to cover taxes on his other stocks and income. It may look bad, but really isn't.
The declaration during a stockholder's teleconference that the grading scandals is immaterial to their business/shareholders is ridiculous. PSA is getting the biggest brunt of it because their slabs sell for the most, and their numbering scheme is easy to determine which order the cards were graded in, for the most part.
Beckett is getting blamed for favoritism by rewarding a single submitter with like 25% of all BGS 10 Pristines and 10 Black Labels given out in the last couple of years. But since they don't have a "grade guarantee", the buyers who got hosed with trimmed cards in Beckett slabs don't really have anywhere to get a refund.

[egbeachley]

Here is the best summary I have heard.

You are more likely to receive an altered card if purchased in a PSA slab than if you purchased it raw.

[Tyruscobb]

Besides the card doctoring, 2019 also revealed the artificial pumping that occurs. A certain company or companies was/were allegedly reporting sales for market appearances.

It/they would report that card X sold for Y price. However, the “winning” bidder would not actually pay. Thus, the final sale price was not legit and actually realized.

This makes the market/demand appear stronger than reality and creates artificial prices. Possibly also related to shill bidding.

We are seeing just the iceberg’s tip. I hope the FBI is building it’s cases.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Phil68

I just read a bunch. This is actually REALLY serious. I have always known that PSA was in WAY over their head in terms of applying a consistent grading standard. I also figured, with the turnover and inexperience of graders, doctored cards would, doubtless, be making their way into holders...
It never occurred to me that it would be an actual scam and they would fail to be accountable in such an obvious way.

I met Joe Orlando about 20 years ago. He was a plastic fellow with limited basic intelligence but tried hard to be "one of the guys". He would "ok" bulk submissions I would do with other set-builders and we would talk sports, cards and collecting. It was a fairly transient relationship but he would actually answer my direct calls. I appreciated him.

I have watched him and his company become one of the most arrogant and unlikable group of folks in the world. I really mean that. I have a fair amount of money invested in cards that PSA has encapsulated but, I can honestly say, not once have a bought ANY card BECAUSE it was in a PSA holder. I think the fact that he has sold off a significant amount of his stock may be quite telling.

The biggest question (to many of us) is whether PSA is complicit in the grading of altered cards, or simply too incompetent to detect them. The number of altered/numerically slabbed cards is now well into the thousands, with values totaling tens of millions of dollars. And only a tiny percentage of the tainted card pool has been revealed to date. It is quite difficult and time consuming to fully research and reveal these alterations. So it's still the tip of the iceberg, as many have stated.

Hopefully the FBI (who's been investigating this for months) will clear up the incompetence/complicity question, and will issue arrests commensurate with the level of fraud committed.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The biggest question (to many of us) is whether PSA is complicit in the grading of altered cards, or simply too incompetent to detect them...

IMO You've hit the nail on the head. No matter which one this is, it's disgusting that they are either:
a. Horrible at their job
b. Outright thieves

Not sure which one I am actually hoping for...

[seff]

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

[bnorth]

Fake Beckett and PSA slabs with altered and counterfeit cards

Altered cards in slabs from all the companies.

Most high grade cards ARE altered, even Mastro admitted that when he was busted.

Most of the people sticking up for the grading companies are really in on it, have mental issues, or are trying to protect the value of their collection.

Been this way for a long long time.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Phil68

Hey guys! I am enjoying this forum so much looking at the cards and reading insights, etc. I have been collecting but really not immersed in the "2019 Grading Scandal" as I have heard and read it referred to.

What I think I know is, Brent sold THOUSANDS of cards that were PURCHASED FROM HIM BY KNOWN CARD DOCTORS AND THEN doctored AND THEN RESOLD FOR THE DOCTORS BY HIM and a forum called Blowout Cards brought attention to it. PSA was the TPG in offense. I read where Evan Mathis has allegedly trimmed up some rather expensive cards and has sold them? Is this all tied in together?

Is that it? Is there more? I see guys post back and forth and feel like the kid in the cafeteria without a place to sit, Lol. I'm reading about it but can't really grasp the issue beyond what I stated above.

I'm discussing with a good friend tonight that is interested in learning about it (he casually collects today's cards) and I found myself saying "Yeah, it sounds terrible. Scary stuff"...that seemed a little short and I heard myself sounding like an impeachment witness--not good.

How about a cliffs notes version--in a nutshell--what happened, what is continuing to happen and who has stepped up to be accountable and who is being a weasel. It would help a brother out AND others that troll around here could gather some information without having to bounce around thread to thread.

Facts only, if you can & Thank You!

That should help

[topcat61]

There's another part of this which came out in November 2018 and that is the forged autographed T206 and 1933 Goudey's which are tied into the grading companies, J. Spence and the auction houses. I filed a few FOIA requests to the FBI recently because this particular case hasn't been resolved.

I went back as far as 2010 (though I think you can go back as far as 1991) but while the FBI and the Justice Department were going after Bill Mastro, they and members of Congress threatened the "Hobby" that if they didn't clean up its act, they would. Most people were at the time saying "I'll see it when I believe it" and to a degree, it's been a correct statement.

We can blame the grading companies and auction houses all we want to, but some of the blame has to go to the collectors as well. There are a lot of great dealers, auctions and collectors, but too many turn a blind eye because of the amount of money that's invested -and then there are people who dont know what's going on either who also continue to do business as usual.