Is low grade unaltered the new king ?

[Rookiemonster]

After all the recent happenings what is the new safe bet? Not all low grade is unaltered but I would say most is. If this end up being the worst case scenario where de we end up?

Back to all high grade must be a scam?

Low grade is not worth the cardboard it’s printed on ? Which doesn’t make sense anymore .

As a collector of all eras and mostly owning low to mid grade in my vintage collection. Just wondering how this cookie crumbles as I presume most are.

[DeanH3]

There very well could be a new emphasis on lower end cards that show honest wear and tear. I have always enjoyed those types of cards.

[benjulmag]

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

And cards bought from PWCC have that provenance. While one isn't required to say where one bought a card, and most don't, a question is if it's ethical to sell a card and not disclose that it came from PWCC.

I do feel bad for the collectors, but must admit I'd smile if the PSA Registry is destroyed. I've had problems that thing for years, and have seen (and pointed out) a plethora of problems, including logical/mathenatical, with its ranking system. The ranking system was bad before the PWCC revelations came out. Not to suggest that many collectors themselves don't use it for honest collecting purposes or that there's anything wrong with having a place for collectors to register and show off their collections.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

And cards bought from PWCC have that provenance.

That's a fair point, which makes provenance unfortunately less reliable unless purchased directly from the original owner and that person was known to you to be of such character as to not alter cards.

Where the provenance still would retain value to me as a 19th century collector pertains not so much as to the issue of alteration but to the issue of authenticity. If a rare card popped up out of nowhere and proof of its existence goes back only to a period when such a card already had a great value, I would be very nervous having confidence the card was real, at least not before undertaking some serious forensic analysis (that goes well beyond what any current TPG could provide).

[glchen]

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

That would be the ideal for well educated, high-end collectors. But that scenario assumes that law enforcement is able to come down on the "criminals" and on PSA. That scenario can't happen unless a majority of collectors become aware of the magnitude of this fraud. Currently (and unfortunately), we are a comparatively small group.

The current mentality is the polar opposite of this, and does not take provenance into account whatsoever. The flip is all that matters to the masses.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

After all the recent happenings what is the new safe bet? Not all low grade is unaltered but I would say most is. If this end up being the worst case scenario where de we end up?

My 1960s complete sets hope so.

[Leon]

There is nothing wrong with low grade. I will upgrade this if I ever see another!!

[frankbmd]

It looks like Mickey could catch those low outside sliders and brushback fastballs with his ears. No wonder he’s in the Hall.

[jchcollins]

For me, the “new king” will just be the original king - and that surrounds the fact that I like baseball and baseball history first and foremost, and other things are secondary. In comparison to many here, I have a fairly modest collection that is made up of big names in mid-grade from the postwar era, and relatively scant items prewar. But I too at times have gotten suckered into the grading minutiae, spending a lot of time deliberating whether this card for sale in a PSA 6 was really nicer than another one in a PSA 5, etc. etc. The details of the hobby for me at times have taken over for my pure love of the game and appreciation for the history and that sense of nostalgia. So if this all plays out badly, it will be a good wake-up call for me at least to think in those terms. At the end of the day, if this situation gets worse before getting better I can live with the idea of appreciating old cards for their authenticity first and foremost - even if it comes out that a much larger percentage than were know before were truly altered.


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[packs]

I sure as hell hope so. Nothing altered on this beauty:

[drcy]

Maybe someday good old fashioned collecting, and appreciating cards for cards, will be king.

Absolutely nothing against the set (I like and collected '70s Topps) and people can do whatever they want, but way back when when I heard someone say he was going to collect the 1977 Topps entirely graded (including every common), I thought that was about the dumbest thing I had ever heard of.

Though I also remember years back when someone used the term "Gem Mint" and I thought he was making a joke.

[sandmountainslim]

I am an oddball in the hobby because I dislike old cards that are pristine. I want them to have signs of wear and signs of having survived for decades or a century. I am the same way with the comic books that I collect . if I buy a golden age comic I want it to look like some kid enjoyed it rather than someone put it up in a safe as an investment

[Goudey77]

That green Cobb is amazing. Great find.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by drcy

Absolutely nothing against the set (I like and collected '70s Topps) and people can do whatever they want, but way back when when I heard someone say he was going to collect the 1977 Topps entirely graded (including every common), I thought that was about the dumbest thing I had ever heard of.

Can't disagree with you here. '77 is my birth year set, and once just on a whim, I bought a mostly complete NM set on eBay, figuring it would just be nice to have. It arrived, and I laboriously put each card into pages and put the whole thing into an album. A week or so later, I realized I couldn't care less about it. I thought the stars were cool enough, but why did I buy all these commons? Long story short, I turned around and sold the set again on eBay. I guess I've always been more of a "few nice stars in individual cases" collector than a have-to-have-the-entire-set type of guy...

[mouschi]

I think this is definitely a possibility! Time will tell if low grade cards will take a hit, but it is possible, many will go after those more when the dust settles.