Impossible Ty Cobb autographed ball passed by JSA and PSA

[henson1855]

I was looking at Brandon's website on his upcoming book and came across this. http://deadspin.com/5892060/why-is-t...r-ty-cobb-died Good looking out Brandon! This ball passed BOTH PSA and JSA, unbelievable.

[GrayGhost]

WOW. Thank God I don't collect this stuff. This is getting really bad.....

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

WOW. Thank God I don't collect this stuff. This is getting really bad.....

The disappearing and reappearing Wagner, now this. What's next? Why is it they never say anything about these in their defense? Where's Orlando, besides in Florida?

Even Heritage couldn't defend it.

Does it seem like if it passes one, it passes the other?

I don't know why it continues. Guarantee their opinions, and maybe they will take time to check out the baseball first with the Wilson company.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

The disappearing and reappearing Wagner, now this. What's next? Why is it they never say anything about these in their defense? Where's Orlando, besides in Florida?

Even Heritage couldn't defend it.

Does it seem like if it passes one, it passes the other?

I don't know why it continues. Guarantee their opinions, and maybe they will take time to check out the baseball first with the Wilson company.

Yeah, Travis, what is next?

Did any of you TPA bashers do any research on this? Did you?

I bet none of you did.

Are any of you aware of the fact that neither PSA or JSA even looked at this item yet. The Ty Cobb auction that was listed was a Preview Page submitted by HA (Heritage Auctions).

I will repeat, that neither PSA or JSA has looked at that Ty Cobb signed ball yet. From what I understand, PSA is scheduled to visit Heritage next week to authenticate items.

I was curious about that piece myself, so I decided to do the diligent action of researching the situation behind that Ty Cobb item.

I do believe Chris Ivy of HA will confirm my posting here.

[travrosty]

do you see the listing where it says full loa from psa, and auction loa from jsa.


there you go.

Is heritage lying?

We have went over this before, if it says full loa from psa and auction loa from jsa, then it has these certs, printed out or not. if psa and jsa hadnt looked at the ball yet, then thats psa and jsa and heritage's fault, not mine. If i had a company, and an auction house asked me to please let them put my coa on a preview listing for whatever they want, no matter how good or bad it might be, what do you think i might say? sure, go ahead? why would that do me any good, especially if the item is way out of time and place?

If psa and jsa let heritage list it with their certs when they hadnt looked at them yet, they must be giving heritage permission to to list those certs that way. if they didnt give heritage permission to put up that listing with their certs listed, maybe they should sue heritage.

Either way if you cant trust what you see on that listing, then someone is guilty of saying something that isn't so. and it's not me.


Heritage has previouslyt admitted to listing jsa certs when jsa hadnt looked at the item yet, and that wasnt a preview, it was open for internet bidding. it was a live item. so when they say jsa auction loa, then its face value. Otherwise how would you ever know if it actually had the cert or not? Are they going to put a tagline underneath that says "we really mean it this time?" Do we have to call them every day asking "are we there yet?" like kids in the backseat of the family truckster on our way to wallyworld?

I would love chris ivy to come here and explain when black and white doesnt mean black and white.

Would you allow any auction house to list chris williams full loa if you hadnt looked at the item yet, preview or not?

Would you? It doesnt cost anything for heritage to list the 'preview' item without any loa's listed, and then add them later after the companies look at them, or list them as psa or jsa authentication pending, but they don't do that? why not? wouldnt that be truth in advertising if they did it that way, not this way?

If you give permission for heritage to list it with your loa even if you havent looked at it yet, then you have given it your defacto loa, even if it is a verbal one. not my fault if you dont want to look at it before you give permission for someone to list your loa with the item. If you didn't give heritage permission, then go after them. we can only take heritage at their word.

Lots of auction houses list psa or jsa certs, and dont show the certs, do we have to call each one up individually before we bid to ask if they ACTUALLY have the psa or jsa certs? Doesn't that sound kind of dumb? Or should we expect the listing to be the listing?

If they are previewing an item and list it with a psa or jsa cert, what are they doing? Predicting it will get one? Nice trick if they have a crystal ball. They DO need to come here and clear it up.

You can't say something in your listing that is not true. There is no previewing authentication. either it has it or it doesn't. it said it had it. that's all anyone can go by.

truly previewing authentication would be saying "psa and jsa authentication pending"

CHRIS IVY PLEASE COME HERE AND EXPLAIN WHY PSA FULL LOA AND JSA AUCTION LOA DON'T MEAN WHAT IT SAYS!

[travrosty]

I will have a car for sale soon. It's a 1967 mustang, and it has paperwork that it once belonged to Steve McQueen, and its in super rare pristine condition. So save up your money and pass up any other near perfect but not pristine 1967 mustangs that that lock solid paperwork that it belonged to McQueen in the meantime, because although those are nice and would fit the bill for something you are looking for this one is in super shape and this is a preview of the one you want.


Other auctions of McQueen 1967 Mustangs go by, the buyers not buying those but waiting and salivating for mine because they like mine better and I said it had the paperwork.

Then I pull the listing and people find out I only suspected that McQueen had owned it and I expected the paperwork to materialize, but alas, it didn't, so all you guys who saved up for your dream car and passed up others at other auctions to buy mine because I previewed it with the McQueen paperwork, well sorry.

but if I would have said "it might get McQueen paperwork, it might not", then they can make a reasonable decision to buy elsewhere or wait for mine with only the chance that the paperwork will come through.

Any reasonable person who sees psa full loa, and jsa auction loa assumes that the cobb ball has these certs, preview or not. And if it says psa full loa and jsa auction loa, then that is de facto certs is it not?

What if they had 30 or 40 thousand dollars and passed up other cobb balls with lock solid certs at other auctions because they really wanted this one, and then "Yank" no psa full loa or jsa auction loa, never had them to begin with? Can't go back in time unless it was the Back to the future DeLorean.

[travrosty]

Here is a Muhammad Alli signed glove that was actually signed by John Olsen, this is an Operation Bullpen piece.

Notice how this auction says 25 days, 2 hours, and 55 minutes left before bidding ends.

It is an active item open for internet bidding, the current bid is 55 dollars.

This is similar to the item I emailed Heritage about when they told me that jsa hadn't looked at the item yet even though it was listed as a jsa auction loa.

Only this is an Olsen signed glove and that was an Olsen signed Ali/Chamberlain photo.

You can see this one has PSA precertification listed, and it is a live item.

This item was subsequently pulled before the end of the auction, as was the Ali/Chamberlain piece I had emailed them about, only this one eventually had PSA getting around to looking at it, and the other piece was pulled when I notified Heritage.

This proves that the "LOA that isn't an LOA" was listed on live items also, not just preview items as PSA knows about this Operation Bullpen signature of John Olsen and wouldn't give a precertification to it if they had actually looked at the item.

There can be no "we only list the loa's or auction loa's on preview items where bidding isn't allowed yet."

So what is the real excuse on why they do this?

What do you think Chris? Williams or Ivy, doesn't matter.

Third photo is an Operation Bullpen of an Ali/Chamberlain signed piece similar to what they offered. They actually offered two of them a couple of months apart, and they took one down when I alerted them to it the first time, and they took the other one down by themselves when the "real" auction loa's came to look at it, but both had the initial auction loa's listed when no one had looked at them yet, but open for internet bidding of course, just like the glove.

Both PSA and JSA hasn't certed this type of Operation Bullpen signature forever as long as i can tell as I can't find one anywhere with their full certs. They know this one is no good. They wouldn't precertify it. Every alert boxing collector knows of this type of John Olsen autograph.

So how is a reasonable, average collector suppose to know when an item has one of these 'not yet' type of precertifications or loa's.

Is it when the item is live? only on preview items? Just where is this information posted so we know? How will anyone know that the item has not been seen by the authenticator yet, but then has 'switched over' to being a real precertification or auction loa?

Very confusing indeed. We have to go by what the listing says. The deal between the auction house and the authenticator is up to them. But you have to go by what you see.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by henson1855

I was looking at Brandon's website on his upcoming book and came across this. http://deadspin.com/5892060/why-is-t...r-ty-cobb-died Good looking out Brandon! This ball passed BOTH PSA and JSA, unbelievable.

Obviously Ty Cobb signed the cow and they made a baseball out of it when the cow died 20 years later.

[BrandonG]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Obviously Ty Cobb signed the cow and they made a baseball out of it when the cow died 20 years later.

Haha!

[drc]

Rob Lifson once told me he wished people would submit their consignments throughout the year, but they tend to consigned them soon before the deadline. He said writing/researching the auction descriptions was a lot of work, and it's tough doing it all at once.

So I'm sure auction houses like to write lot descriptions early on and as-they-go if they can.