Legendary T-206 Honus Wagner

[e107collector]

I got email today showing some of the highlights of Legendary's Feb 2010 auction, but they don't show a picture of the Honus Wagner T-206.

They have a pic of the D322 PSA 5 Wagner, and PSA Authentic T-206 Plank, but they just mention the T-206 Wagner. Does anyone know the grade of the Wagner?

Thanks,
Tony

[Bosox Blair]

Probably already gone...sportscardtheory traded for it already...

Cheers,
Blair

[e107collector]

I contacted Legendary today, and I was told "We don't know what grade the Wagner T-206 is."

I'm not sure what to make of that comment. Thoughts?

Tony

[tothrk]

It's most likely still being restored or refurbished or manufactured or fixed or.....

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by tothrk

It's most likely still being restored or refurbished or manufactured or fixed or.....

hahaha. why commit to a number now?

maybe, like the stock market, a real-time ticker is needed for the grades of cards in the auction.

you never know when a grade will tick up.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by e107collector

I contacted Legendary today, and I was told "We don't know what grade the Wagner T-206 is."

I'm not sure what to make of that comment. Thoughts?

Tony

So they've got a consignment for a Wagner but don't know what the grade is. Yeah, that's believable. Is there something in the water over there that makes it impossible to tell the truth?

[Leon]

Well, I haven't spoken with Doug since the National and they aren't an advertiser....so with that out of the way, is there a chance they have it being graded and don't know the grade? Also, if they sent it in, maybe they were told a grade they aren't comfortable with and are discussing it with another third party grader. Communication is key and they haven't always done that too well..... ....and I agree, the truth is so easy....

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So they've got a consignment for a Wagner but don't know what the grade is. Yeah, that's believable. Is there something in the water over there that makes it impossible to tell the truth?

Maybe some consignor, who might own two, or three, Wagners, has committed to consign one of them but hasn't decided which one to send in?

That could happen!

[calvindog]

Or someone is attempting to slip a Frankenstein Wagner past a grading company.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by e107collector

I contacted Legendary today, and I was told "We don't know what grade the Wagner T-206 is."

Too funny.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by e107collector

I contacted Legendary today, and I was told "We don't know what grade the Wagner T-206 is."

Tony - did they say when they expected to know the grade?

[E93]

When i e-mailed last week inquiring about it, I got a note saying it was not in the office yet.
JimB

[bijoem]

edited out. never mind.

[Orioles1954]

I don't see anything nefarious here, could very well be out at grading.

[barrysloate]

If you send a Wagner out to be graded, wouldn't you know the results within two hours?

[calvindog]

No, I'm sure the owner sent it in by regular mail with the $5, 20 day turnaround service.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by E93

When i e-mailed last week inquiring about it, I got a note saying it was not in the office yet.
JimB

That has never stopped conspiracy theories before, why should it now? I mean, no doubt they have handled some things in not the best fashion (at least to me), but not every single thing they say or do is with criminal/fraudulent intent behind it. This board is great at exposing fraud but I just think sometimes we get a bit too carried away. I AM NOT defending anyone and thank goodness they don't advertise here or that too would be a conspiracy...

Maybe they should have said what more they knew about the card...such as

"we were told it's in the fr-gd range but won't know until we see it"....or something like that? That would have been a better answer but it's not my business.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Leon

I AM NOT defending anyone and thank goodness they don't advertise here or that too would be a conspiracy...

Leon -
everyone is a 'potential' advertiser.

so you will never be completely free from the conspiracy theories.

in addition, I was looking at an old film, and I think I may have seen you by the grassy knoll.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bijoem

Leon -
everyone is a 'potential' advertiser.

so you will never be completely free from the conspiracy theories.

in addition, I was looking at an old film, and I think I may have seen you by the grassy knoll.

I remember the arguments about the advertising very well, from about 3 yrs ago. It's so difficult to prove/defend what will or won't happen in the future. I can say though, that for the 3 yrs of banners, I have never once protected an advertiser. That being said I was very close to the grassy knoll yesterday. I had a great meeting with a new technology prospect and it was in downtown Dallas, so I was there. I was only 2 mos. old when JFK got shot and hadn't quite learned how to shoot at that time. However, I do remember chewing on a toy pistol once.

[Leon]

Doug left me a voicemail today and simply said the Wagner is being graded and they don't know what it will be yet. He said he didn't feel it was appropriate to state the grade when they don't know what it is. It's as simple as that.

[Leon]

Generally there is a policy against posting emails but Doug asked me to post this for him in order to get the facts straight from him, concerning the Wagner card. He won't be responding in this thread. I can't say I blame him too much. He invited anyone that would like to go see the card to contact them and it can be done. That being said here is the email.

From: dallen@legendaryauctions.com [mailto:dallen@legendaryauctions.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:37 PM
To: leonl@flash.net
Subject: Clarification on Lot #1

Hey Leon,
Someone recently pointed out to me some comments made on Net54 regarding the T206 Wagner card. Although anyone who is interested in the card can call me directly or email me I thought it appropriate to clarify a few things:

#1�This card was never submitted for grading. I personally called Joe Orlando and told him that I would be overnighting a card to be considered for an Authentic/Altered holder. He can verify this.
#2 After being sold approximately 10 years ago the buyer of the card chose to have the restoration on the card reversed. This was not done to get it graded. He just thought that from an investment standpoint someone would prefer to have the unnatural restoration reversed. Funny thing is when he sold it a year or so later it went for about the same money!
#3 When I told you I did not know thecondition of the card it was because I had never personally seen the card. When the card arrived at the office I was out of town. I asked one of my employees to take the card to a conservationist to provide us feedback as to what vestiges of restoration remained on the card after the restoration was reversed. It is a significant card and I wanted a professional to look at the card so that we could properly describe it. It was based on their review that we identified the restoration that remained.�Anyone with any hobby experience can tell that the card has been altered. That was not a question. I felt the precise extent of the restoration was important. �

The bottom line is I can't imagine what more we could have done here. I am open to suggestions. We have described the history of the card even showing pictures of it when it was restored. We took great effort to make sure our description of what restoration remained was properly described and we emphatically state that this card will never get into a holder. Again I am open to suggestions.

All the best,
Doug

[bijoem]

Doug....

Since you are asking for suggestions.....

The first suggestion I would have is - - when someone calls you about the condition of a T206 Wagner that you know is altered (whether you personally saw the card or not)......

A great answer would be "it is altered" as opposed to "I don't know".

[calvindog]

You would need the Rosetta Stone and a polygraph machine to ever get the truth out of Doug Allen.

[Kenny Cole]

LOL, but the Rosetta Stone is a fabrication and polygraphs don't often, if ever, reveal the truth. Isn't that the basic theory underlying why all you criminal defense lawyers generally move to get them excluded? :-)

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

LOL, but the Rosetta Stone is a fabrication and polygraphs don't often, if ever, reveal the truth. Isn't that the basic theory underlying why all you criminal defense lawyers generally move to get them excluded? :-)

They're inadmissible in criminal cases so Doug should be ok with it.

[batsballsbases]

Jeff,Jeff,Jeff
Didnt your mother tell you play nice with the other children!

[Anthony S.]

Um, when did the Rosetta Stone become a fabrication?

[batsballsbases]

Leon,
As I first stated I believe Doug was very honest with there description of the card.(maybe a little to descriptive) But that all comes with trying to get your client the most for their item. I also said that I believe the card will sell even with all the "alterations" that were done with it. I to believe in the statement Jeff L made why would anyone want to alter this card anyway. The best you could have hoped for is a 2 given the condition it was in without the changes. In my mind I think it really lowered the value of it now given the nature of all that has come out about the card. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. As for Legendary auctions I have bid in all the major auctions and Legendary is no exception,if there is an item I like I set a limit and if it exceeds that limit Im done. But I guess it should be a lesson to all auction houses if you want to play games just be ready when it hits the fan ! Because it comes back at you rather hard.