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#1
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Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie
This probably merits a separate thread.
Self explanatory. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1#post14717612 As additional interesting cards get outed will link them here.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-17-2019 at 11:56 AM. |
#2
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I printed and went through the list...will go check my collection later today.
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#3
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I'm clean, so far, LOL, not that it means much.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#4
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phew! None from that list are in my collection. I did a quick vlookup in excel. Gotta love technology!
__________________
... http://imageevent.com/derekgranger HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 250/346 (72.3%) 1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%) 1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 180/180 (100%) |
#5
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#6
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What is that list of? Are those all altered cards? Or submitted cards by someone who has been proven to alter other cards? Just trying to understand if I have a card on there what that means and what to do if anything.
Cory Weiser |
#7
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I can't do better than the explanation in the post.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#8
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Cards submitted by a known trimmer. Highly likely that many/all of these cards are trimmed/altered.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#9
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I got lucky, went through my past sales. Seem most of the cards I bought came from auction houses and private collectors. Only card I bought from PWCC last 3 years was a T213-3 coupon Mathewson, which thankfully wasnt on the list.
Still not out of the woods.... |
#10
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Oh God no none of us are. This list is the tip of a very big berg.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#11
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Yes, this is only from one guy out of the 10 card alterers exposed by Blowout so far.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#12
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And they don't know about the major vintage ones.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#13
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Do you want me to point them in the right direction? I don't either.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#14
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Do you want me to point them in the right direction? I don't either.
Edit: except the raw Ebay sellers like battleship and great lakes, if that's who you're talking about. And Vegas Dave for market manipulation.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. Last edited by swarmee; 05-30-2019 at 06:59 PM. |
#15
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Quote:
I can assess grade largely on my own. Scanning at 1600DPI, you can see incredible detail along the edges. 10x magnification may be sufficient to rush out a numerical grade, but I’m pretty upset these companies didn’t even try to look closer to evaluate authenticity. |
#16
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It would be a massive undertaking as well as the need for huge hobby support to launch a new company. From day one you will have people trying to ding your credibility so being transparent is a must. At some point an altered card of some sort will seep through and the minuscule error will cost you reputation points you cant afford to lose as a new business. You also have to worry about staffing and detailed training, greedy staff, and insider fraud. If that is not enough both PSA and SGC have very good attorneys, deep assets/vested interest in the hobby, and great legal teams. Even if you are right 100% and have ample evidence against them you still lost because you would be broke before you got notice of a hearing. PSA and SGC both have their skeletons but that is the options the hobby is stuck with because that is what it wants. Educate yourself about the cards you are buying and stop giving your money away to people you don feel are credible.
__________________
Andrew Member since 2009 |
#17
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Quote:
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#18
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Forgive my ignorance, since I've never sent anything to get graded. But: doesn't PSA have to buy all of these cards back at prices corresponding to the assigned grade? Isn't that their guarantee?
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#19
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If they can be proven altered, yes. That is their grade guarantee with no expiration date, and it's priced into their grading services that cost up to $5,000 a card.
Add: As of a month ago's conference call, they only have about $800,000 in their grade guarantee reserve fund. So once it eclipses that, they'll be taking it out of hide.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. Last edited by swarmee; 05-31-2019 at 05:24 PM. |
#20
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-31-2019 at 07:25 PM. |
#21
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Well, if PSA decertifies the numbers like I've asked them to, I'm sure all of those affected will send them back to have them re-evaluated or refunded.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#22
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One of the cards from the list is currently being resold via PWCC:
40927085 1909-11 T206 Hughie Jennings BOTH HANDS, AMERICAN BEAUTY PSA 6.5 EXMT+ (PWCC) 7/8/2018 352392001729 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T20...h&LH_Auction=1 Anybody here have the ability to find out who one the below auction: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1340023 Matt Bojorquez |
#23
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Quote:
Wait for it..... whitman111
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#24
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Hey Matt, can you post a link that proves the T206 Jennings AB 460 has been altered? Once confirmed, I think we should all email PWCC individually, stating that the card is altered and also start a thread on the main board. Let’s see how PWCC handles the info and the many requests.
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#25
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#26
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https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ard-collection
Well, this thread didn't last long on the PSA board. Here's a capture in case the thread goes poof. Quote:
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#27
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Quote:
Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 06-01-2019 at 04:29 PM. |
#28
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Quote:
Pretty card for the grade. Shows like an EX+ example with a light vertical back crease downgrading. Part of an impressive run of ever popular T206 White Borders on the auction block. In total well over 500 examples are displayed, which represents the majority of an entire set. One of nearly 20,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 7th Auction of 2016. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. See the second sentence from the PWCC desciption of the PSA 4 Jennings above. Now see the current description of the PSA 6.5: Marvelous T206 American Beauty Jennings on the market this month. This card is beautifully preserved with smooth edges, outstanding centering and four sharp corners. Boasts fantastic surfaces with bright color and gorgeous clarity. The single finest example in existence. Deserving of serious attention. One of over 17,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 6th Auction of 2019. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. Thread: Cross posting list of potentially bad cards Reply to Thread |
#29
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The list, by the way, is going to be updated soon I have heard, with 20+ new subs.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#30
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Quote:
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#31
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Dunno, I am not involved and all I have read is their statement that they are working with law enforcement.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#32
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I really wish Jeff L. would chime in. The more that I look into this, the more suspicious everything seems to be, and the more shocking it is, and the more guilty these fraudsters are... I always knew and suspected about the bid shilling with PWCC, but this is a whole different ball game. I'm just wondering what the legal system could possibly do. This guy and his wife have made a ton of money obviously doing things illegally....I can just about bet the house on this though....Ebay won't do a damn thing about it!
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#33
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#34
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Thanks Peter. I know have that thread on my phone and update it once/day holding my breath.... But I (and I am sure others) appreciate you keeping the Net54 group in the loop about the goings on at Blowout and elsewhere
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#35
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Quote:
__________________
An$on Lyt!e |
#36
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Total Numbers
Do we have an idea of the total number of cards that may be altered?
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#37
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This sub includes the Old Mill Cobb that BO has identified as originally having been purchased by PWCC itself in an SGC 30 holder.
22834524 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 2 PWCC 7/7/2014 22834525 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 4 PWCC 10/5/2014 22834526 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 2.5 PWCC 7/7/2014 22834527 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 3 PWCC 6/3/2014 Looks More Like a Yellow Background 22834528 T206 Old Mill Cobb Red Background PSA 4.5 PWCC 7/7/2014 22834529 Altered, Min Size or Miscut 22834530 Altered, Min Size or Miscut 22834531 T206 Sweet Caporal Cobb Red Background PSA 6 PWCC 11/2/2014 22834532 Altered, Min Size or Miscut 22834533 Altered, Min Size or Miscut 22834534 1933 Goudey #92 Gehrig PSA 3 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834535 1933 Goudey #154 Foxx PSA 4 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834536 1933 Goudey #160 Gehrig PSA 4.5 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834537 1933 Goudey #216 Gomez PSA 5.5 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834538 1933 Goudey #220 Grove PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834539 1933 Goudey #223 Dean PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014 22834540 1940 Playball #1 DiMaggio PSA 4 NO RECORD OF SALE 22834541 1949 Bowman #50 Robinson PSA 8 PWCC 6/5/2014 22834542 Altered, Min Size or Miscut NO RECORD OF SALE 22834543 1952 Topps #1 Pafko BLACK PSA 5 NO RECORD OF SALE 22834544 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 6 PWCC 11/3/2014 22834545 Altered, Min Size or Miscut 22834546 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 7 PWCC 6/5/2014 22834547 1956 Topps #135 Mantle GRAY PSA 7 NO RECORD OF SALE Many more subs containing outed cards are in the works I hear.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#38
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too much info ....
I have been reading this for about an hour and still not really sure whats going on. Anyone want to give me a readers digest version....
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#39
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Last edited by ullmandds; 06-19-2019 at 01:18 PM. |
#40
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Do you mean (1) the number of cards specifically outed, (2) the number of cards in the same submissions as the outed cards, or (3) how many altered cards are out there in the world?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#41
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SGC 4.5 Green Cobb
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3178
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#42
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Quote:
an issue is if you make a corner rounder that was sharp....is that really altering. if you bounce the card a few times like in a game on the corner like a kid may of done or put in your spokes..thats not altering a card.....plus that would lower the value ..i guess thats normal wear and tear is not altering..... on this cobb it is alleged the corners were made worse....by rounding them...also there is some altering alleged to improve the card of course..but the rounding part is whats interesting to me. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-20-2019 at 10:49 AM. |
#43
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Quote:
Last edited by Johnny630; 06-20-2019 at 10:48 AM. |
#44
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Peter, what I'm asking is, is there a comprehensive list of Whittman/PWCC cards. I have already found two I purchased on the list and wanted to check all the PWCC cards I have. Thanks.
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#45
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Quote:
Here is the list to date. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...48&postcount=1
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-20-2019 at 01:33 PM. |
#46
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Thanks Peter!
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#47
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At least one small-timer is waiting to see a resolution before sending cards to Newport Beach. I had a batch ready to go, but Orlando's statement made me weary. It's sitting in my cabinet, waiting until I'm confident the investment will be worth it.
I doubt I'm the only one. They don't care about tiny little chumps like me though. That much is clear. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk |
#48
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I think Betsy is the point person for recalling cards for which PWCC believes there is evidence of alteration and which PWCC offers to work with the seller and the TPG to refund, take out of circulation, and turn over to law enforcement.
Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk |
#49
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Somebody seriously needs to post an update on this whole mess. Since the FBI got involved, what exactly has changed?
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#50
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Quote:
This hobby/business provides no voice for the consumer... it’s just the same hyperbole and lies from the controlling “powers that be”. Since the hypnotized majority wants status-quo, and the offending companies won’t come clean, the FBI represents our last hope for full disclosure and positive change. Please don’t let us down! Last edited by perezfan; 09-17-2019 at 02:42 PM. |
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