Why are they not playing baseball ?

[insidethewrapper]

Why are they not playing baseball and compromising ? It can't be the players want more money. The contracts this past year are unbelievable. What is the biggest issue ? Are these guys in the real world ? Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? I know I'm fed up with these guys. Let's Play Ball.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Why are they not playing baseball and compromising ? It can't be the players want more money. The contracts this past year are unbelievable. What is the biggest issue ? Are these guys in the real world ? Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? I know I'm fed up with these guys. Let's Play Ball.

The players want more money. The owners want more money. We want baseball. To be continued....

[Seven]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Why are they not playing baseball and compromising ? It can't be the players want more money. The contracts this past year are unbelievable. What is the biggest issue ? Are these guys in the real world ? Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? I know I'm fed up with these guys. Let's Play Ball.

It's 100% on the owners.

It's easy to be pissed off at both sides, Because it's the Millionaires Vs. The Billionaires, but there's genuine problems. The owners have more or less imposed a de facto salary cap, average player salary has more or less stayed the same over the past decade, while revenue and profits have gone through the roof. The commissioner of the sport is grossly out of touch, referring to the crowning achievement of the sport as a "piece of metal"

None of the players demands are truly unreasonable either. They want to lower the amount of service time before free agency, they don't want draft bonuses to be capped, they want the luxury tax raised so teams can be more competitive.

Further than that players expressed the willingness to play under the old CBA for this season, until an agreement could be reached, but the owners refused. It was the owners that locked out the players, not the other way around.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Seven

It's 100% on the owners.

It's easy to be pissed off at both sides, Because it's the Millionaires Vs. The Billionaires, but there's genuine problems. The owners have more or less imposed a de facto salary cap, average player salary has more or less stayed the same over the past decade, while revenue and profits have gone through the roof. The commissioner of the sport is grossly out of touch, referring to the crowning achievement of the sport as a "piece of metal"

None of the players demands are truly unreasonable either. They want to lower the amount of service time before free agency, they don't want draft bonuses to be capped, they want the luxury tax raised so teams can be more competitive.

Further than that players expressed the willingness to play under the old CBA for this season, until an agreement could be reached, but the owners refused. It was the owners that locked out the players, not the other way around.

Completely agree. It's 100% on the owners.

One of the main things the players are upset about is the manipulation of service time. Kris Bryant is the poster child for that. Teams hold off bringing up players that are clearly ready for the majors until after a certain date so they can get another year of that player's services before free agency. It's anti-competitive, it artificially lowers salaries, and it's just wrong.

Along with that, players are also upset that teams are tanking. And, as always, they're upset that teams who receive revenue sharing aren't spending it on players as they're supposed to.

It's also worth noting that MLB cut the draft in size and eliminated 1/4 of all minor league teams - just because. What they've done to minor league baseball is just criminal.

[insidethewrapper]

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

There is no other major league of baseball down the street. There is 1. And it's turned into a gazillion dollar enterprise on the backs of skilled players. Not greedy owners.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, blame the players. 65% of them don't make a million dollars. Focus on the guys making $500,000, not the owners who own teams worth BILLIONS.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There is no other major league of baseball down the street. There is 1. And it's turned into a gazillion dollar enterprise on the backs of skilled players. Not greedy owners.

Nothing to add. Just thought it was worth repeating.

[John1941]

It's so annoying how, on MLB.com, they have a FAQ for the CBA negotiations, and they blame everything on the players. Yeah, right.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

Your business doesn't have an anti-trust exemption...

[egri]

Baseball will survive, despite the best efforts of the people who run it.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Your business doesn't have an anti-trust exemption...

Exactly. Things are changing in sports and they are going in the athletes' favor. Just ask the NCAA. It won't be long until the anti-trust exemption goes the way of the complete game pitcher.

Owners don't get to be billionaires by giving away their money. The players will have to pry it out of their fingers.

And to answer the OP: Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? Yep, and it ain't going to be in a positive way.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

Here's an analogy that fits since you want to talk as a business owner: inflation has far exceeded the minimum wage increase, yet profits have sored st the same time, and now players have an opportunity to narrow the gap that was created. Just like in real life, this can be compared to the fight for $15, or all the teacher strikes the last 5 years around the country. When workers get left behind, workers get aggravated.

First, MLB minimum salary is the lowest among NFL, NBA, and NHL. In current negotiations, players requested making as much as 3rd place NHL. Owners said no. MLB is the #1 sport that relies on minimum salary players. In 2019, minimum salary earners were roughly 55% of all rostered players. That discrepancy really puts the onus on MLBPA to increase minimum salary because so many players are at the bottom. Additionally, owners have weaponized WAR, recognizing that the best years of a player are often still within the original contract signed as a draft pick. Thus there is little monetary incentive to offer contracts to average or above average veteran players. There is no ROI. Owners have obviously colluded to reduce free agent earnings... remember the year no free agents were signed over the winter of 2018-19? Some players created their own spring training group waiting to be picked up. This collusion has led to four consecutive years of falling average salary.

At the same time, gambling advertising has unleashed a flood of new money that MLB hopes to tap into. And the new sportst card contract should also bring in new money. Further, owners are requesting MLBPA okays ads on uniforms which will bring in hundreds of millions. They will see a windfall of money when the CBA is signed. I'm baffled by the owners resistance to negotiate in good faith. No matter what they give players, the owners will walk away winners.

The MLBPA has to take action now to protect their future. There is a lot at stake! I'm certain it will mean no All Star game unless owners give in. I don't see players crumbling on their requests. I fully support the draft lottery, a minimum team salary, and punishments for tanking / draft pick rewards for competitive teams. They made a lot of mistakes in negotiations the last two or three CBAs that owners have manipulated. They seek to remedy a few of those.

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[insidethewrapper]

I see the owners have offered a $ 615,000 minimum salary and the players union is at $ 715,000. Not a bad job.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Completely agree. It's 100% on the owners.

One of the main things the players are upset about is the manipulation of service time. Kris Bryant is the poster child for that. Teams hold off bringing up players that are clearly ready for the majors until after a certain date so they can get another year of that player's services before free agency. It's anti-competitive, it artificially lowers salaries, and it's just wrong.

Along with that, players are also upset that teams are tanking. And, as always, they're upset that teams who receive revenue sharing aren't spending it on players as they're supposed to.

It's also worth noting that MLB cut the draft in size and eliminated 1/4 of all minor league teams - just because. What they've done to minor league baseball is just criminal.

I'm wondering if the opposite will happen now that they've gotten rid of so much of the minor leagues.
Especially if they don't limit draft bonuses.
I can easily see players brought up well before they're really ready and some really good ones failing.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Why are they not playing baseball and compromising ? It can't be the players want more money. The contracts this past year are unbelievable. What is the biggest issue ? Are these guys in the real world ? Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? I know I'm fed up with these guys. Let's Play Ball.

Yeah, blame the players. 65% of them don't make a million dollars. Focus on the guys making $500,000, not the owners who own teams worth BILLIONS.

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Why are they not playing baseball and compromising ? It can't be the players want more money. The contracts this past year are unbelievable. What is the biggest issue ? Are these guys in the real world ? Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? I know I'm fed up with these guys. Let's Play Ball.

It’s more about the minor leaguers. Those fellas are making less than minimum wage at least a very large majority. They make on average between 8-14k a year. Well below poverty level.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by Jstottlemire1

It’s more about the minor leaguers. Those fellas are making less than minimum wage at least a very large majority. They make on average between 8-14k a year. Well below poverty level.

+1 Totally agree.

[5-Tool Player]

Greed, Greed & Greed .....plain and simple

All hands on both sides are dirty

[scotgreb]

Not picking a side here but I have always felt that the capital that ownership has invested/ at risk is underappreciated. Of course, most have large unrealized capital gains in these franchises but it is still a very large amount of capital tied up in the "business" nonetheless. That capital could be deployed in infinite other productive assets. By comparison, players have nothing invested other than their talent -- which has no comparative value outside of baseball.

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[ASF123]

The owners offer of $615k is a slap in the face.

Uh-oh. If an offer of 86% of asking price is a slap in the face, I've inadvertently slapped a bunch of eBay sellers in the face. Sorry about that!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Uh-oh. If an offer of 86% of asking price is a slap in the face, I've inadvertently slapped a bunch of eBay sellers in the face. Sorry about that!

I'm not sure your math is correct. Current minimum is $570k. Union asked for about $200k more, to a minimum wage of $775k. Owners offered $615, or $45k more than current salary. My math says they offered slightly less than 25% of asking. And yes, most sellers will be upset with just 25%.

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[Jim65]

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm not sure your math is correct. Current minimum is $570k. Union asked for about $200k more, to a minimum wage of $775k. Owners offered $615, or $45k more than current salary. My math says they offered slightly less than 25% of asking. And yes, most sellers will be upset with just 25%.

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Its worse than that. Players make 570K and owners are offering 615K, thats roughly a 7.9% raise.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm not sure your math is correct. Current minimum is $570k. Union asked for about $200k more, to a minimum wage of $775k. Owners offered $615, or $45k more than current salary. My math says they offered slightly less than 25% of asking. And yes, most sellers will be upset with just 25%.

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You were responding to a post that stated "I see the owners have offered a $ 615,000 minimum salary and the players union is at $ 715,000," which seemed accurate from a quick Google check. If it's not, I stand corrected.

The players definitely have legitimate gripes, especially the need to raise salaries for early-career players, which of course raising the minimum would help with. I support the players on that. But at least from what I've seen the parties aren't actually that far apart on that issue. They're a lot further apart on other issues.

On the baseball websites I follow, the commentary is about 98% anti-owner, and often militant, exaggerated and ill-informed. I don't think that's helpful.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Not picking a side here but I have always felt that the capital that ownership has invested/ at risk is underappreciated. Of course, most have large unrealized capital gains in these franchises but it is still a very large amount of capital tied up in the "business" nonetheless. That capital could be deployed in infinite other productive assets. By comparison, players have nothing invested other than their talent -- which has no comparative value outside of baseball.

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That is true, but do we, the fans pay to see the owners or the players?

I think also, realistically speaking, Teams nowadays aren't really used as a single source of income, as they once were. I am sure there are exceptions to this, but most of the owners, especially the ones that have entered the sport in recent years, are ones that are already established Billionaires. I think we're more likely to see the Steve Cohen, Art Moreno types rather than someone like Bill Veeck.

This also fuels my point concerning teams being competitive, and what the players are complaining about. The current luxury tax system allows the money to be redistributed to teams with lower payrolls, and the owners are simply just allowed, to pocket the money, rather than fielding a competitive team. Bob Nutting, who is worth over One Billion Dollars is a prime example of this. And While undoubtedly I'm sure some players, prefer to play under the lights of Chicago, NY, Boston or LA, He is perfectly capable of offering Carlos Correa or Freddie Freeman a fat contract, but chooses not to because he'd rather line his pockets.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Seven

This also fuels my point concerning teams being competitive, and what the players are complaining about. The current luxury tax system allows the money to be redistributed to teams with lower payrolls, and the owners are simply just allowed, to pocket the money, rather than fielding a competitive team. Bob Nutting, who is worth over One Billion Dollars is a prime example of this. And While undoubtedly I'm sure some players, prefer to play under the lights of Chicago, NY, Boston or LA, He is perfectly capable of offering Carlos Correa or Freddie Freeman a fat contract, but chooses not to because he'd rather line his pockets.

There's also the matter of how team "wealth" is determined. The Twins are considered a low money team but are owned by the Pohlad family who are (or were - haven't checked recently) one of the richest owners in the majors.