1921-30 m.l. die cuts question.

[novakjr]

I picked this up yesterday on the bay. It's one of the 1921-39 m.l. die-cuts, of a Detroit player, and the sticker has never been attached. Where the sticker would be is the number 14. I've done a little research, and I've come across another die cut of Harry Heilmann and it has the number 14 on the sticker, so I would believe that the number on the sticker was intended to be attached to the matching cut-out.

That being said, I'm not saying I'm right here, but I'm thinking that mine is the Heilmann and the other I saw was the Heilmann sticker attached to the wrong cut-out. Does anyone know anything about these? I know they had updated stickers whenever a player changed teams, but did they ever randomly change the corresponding cut-out? Basically was the Detroit 14 cut-out always the same cut-out? Or do I have a cut-out that was intended for a completely different player in 1930, when Heilmann was playing for the Reds?

Also, just for the sake of argument, if the cut-out never changed. Would you consider a cut-out with the wrong sticker to be the player named on the sticker, thus resulting in a larger number of possible cut-outs of that player? And would you consider the appropriate cut-out without the sticker to still be the player it was intended for? And would one with the wrong sticker be considered a card of both the originally intended player and the one who's sticker was attached?

[rhettyeakley]

I don't think anyone has ever studied these nearly enough to answer your question. However, the number on the player piece does correspond with the number at the bottom of the label. My thinking is that the label is the important part--it would be less than ideal if a right fielder piece was attached to a pitcher pose but once the label is on the player piece you can no longer see the number underneath.

Keep in mind these were reissued each year and a particular player could be found in different "poses" (especially the pitchers--as each team had a few. But say for example Heilmann played in 1922 as rght field and switched to center field the next year, they may switch his player pose to correspond to with Heilmann. Each team was styled differently--even though the same generic poses were used--so they aren't totally generic in regards to the team.

I've never looked into the cards that closely but if all "right fielders" were always given the same pose and that is different than the one that the Heilman card w/ label you show has then it was probably a mistake. But also keep in mind that in the 1922 team set Heilmann may have been #14 in that set but in 1924 he may have had a different # on the sheet--so I would use some caution making assumptions until more info is gathered.

-Rhett

[rhettyeakley]

Looking at the ones I have, it appears the labeled Heilmann above is probably a mislabel as that appears to be a pitching pose (but notice the numbers are different)...


Joe Shaute (pitcher)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESE:IT

Dave Robertson (pitcher)

[novakjr]

Thanks Rhett. This is seemingly one of the oddest issues I've seen. It seems that not many people really know anything about 'em. The only thing I really have to go by for now is a 2005 Beckett Standard Catalog, and they don't even have any reference to Heilmann or the numbers, and only have it listed as 1926. But then again, that's what I get for having a 6 year old book. Does the newer SCD have anything significant in regards to these?

[leftygrove10]

The 2007 and 2011 SCD Standard Catalogs do not list individual players. They only list prices for Cobb, Gehrig, Johnson and Ruth. They mention prices for "Typical Team Sets", "Common Players" and "Typical Hall of Famers". The older SCD's did list the individual players. Unfortunately, they no longer do that.

Maybe someone with an older (2003?) SCD Catalog can help you.

[martyp]

I have a complete game. The game has 16 bags of players and each team has 14 players. So for your #14, it could be one of 16 players from any of several different years. The pieces remained the same and the labels changed.

The 2003 SCD lists players by teams. The problem is that they do not have all teams for each year, so the list is incomplete. It has 1921 Heilmann as #6, 1924 as #7 and 1926 as #5.

My game has Cobb with the A's so it is a 1927 or 28 game. There are no teams listed in 1928 and only the Phillies in 27.