New guy here...1952 Mantle...is it legit?

[techkiller]

I have what i believe may be a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle 311B card.... A little history...I picked up this card at a old garage sale in a very small town. The guy running the garage sale had many old items such as authentic WWII officer uniforms, watches, tools, etc....I found this card in with the watches and asked him what he wanted for it....his reply was...hmm Mickey Mantle, i think he was pretty good right...idk....like $25? This guy had no other cards at all...just this one and def did not know what he may have had.

Here is the link to the pics of the card.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148960835@N08/?

Initially i was very skeptical whether this is the real deal or not...but it passes every single specific attribute of being a real card....
The following is from: http://bbcemporium.com/1952-topps-mi...terfeit-guide/

-There is a missing blue pixel
-There is only a partial black border around the Yankee logo
-The top border overlaps the two side borders
-The border around Mantle’s name is not as smooth an even as the Type I
card
-The stitches on the baseball are pointed to the right
-The “t” in Right and the “s” in DiMaggio’s are nearly perfectly aligned.

It passes all of these...which i've looked through hundreds of counterfeits and they always fail on one of the above.

I really need some expert opinion here....No disrespect but if you were unaware of the above list please don't comment. I only want expert opinions as I need to make a decision on whether to send this to PSA or not. Please give me specifics on why you came to your decision.

Thanks
The New Guy

[swarmee]

Do you own any other 1952 Topps? Can you compare the card stock to them? Buy some commons for $10 each and feel the front, back, sides, and smell them. Then see if the Mantle sets off any flags for you.

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Do you own any other 1952 Topps? Can you compare the card stock to them? Buy some commons for $10 each and feel the front, back, sides, and smell them. Then see if the Mantle sets off any flags for you.

I do not own any other 52 cards....from your opinion is that the only thing that could be off with it?

[irv]

If you purchased that card for only $25 bucks and it passed your inspection, based on what you mentioned, I see no reason why you wouldn't send it in to get graded.

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

If you purchased that card for only $25 bucks and it passed your inspection, based on what you mentioned, I see no reason why you wouldn't send it in to get graded.

Yeah....however....does PSA charge $1200 whether it's legit or not?

[irv]

Originally Posted by techkiller

Yeah....however....does PSA charge $1200 whether it's legit or not?

The prices likely went up as I remember it being $700.00 for cards valued over $10K.

Swarmee has a great idea. It would be worth it to buy one/some cheaply from E-Bay or someone on here (if available?) then compare.

Good luck whatever you do.

[Bestdj777]

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

Yes it does smell old....

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

hey Chris....thanks for the feedback...what do you think it would grade out as? I was thinking probably 4-5?

[bnorth]

Now I could be wrong but it looks as real as a $3 bill to me. For the condition the front is way too white. The entire back looks like it was printed with an inkjet printer. Could just be bad fuzzy pictures, I don't know.

I do not know if PSA charges if a card is rejected but I really hope they do. Otherwise why not send in as many fake cards as possible with no recourse.

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

The prices likely went up as I remember it being $700.00 for cards valued over $10K.

Swarmee has a great idea. It would be worth it to buy one/some cheaply from E-Bay or someone on here (if available?) then compare.

Good luck whatever you do.

Not a bad idea....however does anyone know if PSA charges if it's found to be a counterfeit? I mean that's pretty sucky if they do....$1200 for a $5 fake? I am perfectly fine paying that much if it is indeed legit. What if i send it in listing it as a counterfeit? Will they only charge the minimum then?

[irv]

Originally Posted by techkiller

Not a bad idea....however does anyone know if PSA charges if it's found to be a counterfeit? I mean that's pretty sucky if they do....$1200 for a $5 fake? I am perfectly fine paying that much if it is indeed legit. What if i send it in listing it as a counterfeit? Will they only charge the minimum then?

They will only charge u that amount if it is real and in their opinion, worth over $10K.
If it is a fake, I can't imagine it being anymore than $20 or less?

[Stonepony]

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

fakes always have decent centering too

[CW]

Nothing is really screaming at me that this is a fake other than the near perfect centering and the yellow around the Yankees logo looks a bit brighter compared to a known legit copy (this could be from the photo, though). Another odd factor is the unnatural perfectly rounded bottom corners. I own cards with rounded corners, so it's not uncommon, but the color and wear on the white borders doesn't really match the wear of the corners, as if the card may have been artificially aged. Lack of creasing is also strange. I'm 50/50 on it.

Thanks for providing such good pictures to study, and please, even if the card is determined to be a fake, come back here to let us all know the result. That would be a nice score if it turns out to be real, so good luck!

BTW, I will mention that with the rounded corners, the surface scuffing, and the stain in the upper right corner area, you would be likely to get a 2 or maybe a 3 from PSA, although most collectors would pay a big premium for the centering, so it's still a $20K card, give or take, if it's real.

Also, if you submit to PSA you can choose to have it graded with no qualifiers, as it would likely get an ST qualifier for the stain. Keep in mind this would also knock the grade down a grade or two. For example, if you go with qualifiers, the card may grade as a 3 ST. If you request no qualifiers, PSA may give it a straight 2 or even a 1.

Most collectors would prefer a card without a qualifier, and if you do more research with the search function you can probably find some prior discussions on qualifiers to help with your decision.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by CW

Nothing is really screaming at me that this is a fake other than the near perfect centering and the yellow around the Yankees logo looks a bit brighter compared to a known legit copy (this could be from the photo, though). .

I agree with the front centering screaming fake.....the back centering is off l/r though....that is not as typical with the fakes.

[Prof_Plum]

Not an expert but if we're taking a poll, I'd vote fake. Front centering is almost too good. The yellow of the box doesn't seem to match the yellow of the bat. There seems to be more of an orange-ish tint to the box. Also considering the scruffiness of the surface, I'd expect more wear elsewhere, e.g. the corners.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

I was thinking the same thing. The yellow seems to be off also...but could be the scans. It is hard to tell more given the info supplied.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by techkiller

I have what i believe may be a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle 311B card.... A little history...I picked up this card at a old garage sale in a very small town. The guy running the garage sale had many old items such as authentic WWII officer uniforms, watches, tools, etc....I found this card in with the watches and asked him what he wanted for it....his reply was...hmm Mickey Mantle, i think he was pretty good right...idk....like $25? This guy had no other cards at all...just this one and def did not know what he may have had.

Here is the link to the pics of the card.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148960835@N08/?

Initially i was very skeptical whether this is the real deal or not...but it passes every single specific attribute of being a real card....
The following is from: http://bbcemporium.com/1952-topps-mi...terfeit-guide/

-There is a missing blue pixel
-There is only a partial black border around the Yankee logo
-The top border overlaps the two side borders
-The border around Mantle’s name is not as smooth an even as the Type I
card
-The stitches on the baseball are pointed to the right
-The “t” in Right and the “s” in DiMaggio’s are nearly perfectly aligned.

It passes all of these...which i've looked through hundreds of counterfeits and they always fail on one of the above.

I really need some expert opinion here....No disrespect but if you were unaware of the above list please don't comment. I only want expert opinions as I need to make a decision on whether to send this to PSA or not. Please give me specifics on why you came to your decision.

Thanks
The New Guy

To save the PSA fees at first you could also post your location, maybe someone is close and could meet up with you. They could bring a known real 52 Topps card and a loupe to compare the 2 cards. Then if you and someone that knows 52 Topps think it is real you could then send it off to PSA.

[techkiller]

I spoke to PSA and they told me they would only charge me the minimum if it was not a legit 52 Mantle. They would call me and let me know it was real and give me the opportunity to pay the fee. They told me to just mark it as a 52 Mantle but put the declared value at like $5 when sending it in.

[swarmee]

Wow, that's interesting. Glad to hear they're making it easier to validate cards that are possibly authentic.

[JTysver]

Looks real to me.
I always look to see if you can see the dot pattern on it.
That is unique to it being printed by four color process. This has it.
Generally, if this was printed another way or copied from another card, it would not have the same clarity of pattern or the pattern would be more random.

[pawpawdiv9]

I looked at your pics and compared it to mine. Well- I am on the side of 'not good'.
I agree the orangy color is a major throw-off for starts.
next is the skin tone/color is way glossy or vibrant in some areas.
Then I noticed a slight difference in the bibb rim at/under, looks darker?
Then, I see the bat is whitened or scuffed all up, looks odd?
I also thought some spots were a bit too white as well.
Kinda resembles those late East Coast reprints??? Those have the orangy tint.
Those are some I see, but you do have a lot of positives to prove other-wise.

[1952boyntoncollector]

with all of these varied opinions....we can all agree the value of PSA and third party graders.