PSA Flips/Holders - Tracking Changes Over Time

[Bosox Blair]

This has come up tangentially in other threads - the changes over the years are confusing when trying to ensure PSA cards are legit. Is there a thread anywhere on this Board, or a webpage anyone knows of where the changes over the years are discussed and illustrated with scans?

If not, I was thinking of starting on that with this thread. Please reply if you know of something already out there.

Cheers,
Blair

[MVSNYC]

i might be missing one label, but i just did a quick search on the internet to illustrate the evolution of PSA labels...

4- square corners, number listed below grade designation (current)
3- square corners, bolder type face (most of the 2000's)
2- round corners, thinner type face, old "PSA" type face at top, hologram on back (mid 90's-2000-ish)
1- round corners, "typewriter" type face, old "PSA" type face at top, hologram on back (original) (early to mid 90's)

[terjung]

Thanks for posting that.

Can we also show with pictures what the backs look like and with which front? (ie. this front goes with this back)

[Bosox Blair]

Thanks for the posts so far. I have it as a couple more than illustrated above. Plus the hologram changed from the PSA one to a Collector's Universe one. I should be able to organize a detailed post on this tomorrow.

Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

OK - in the following several posts I'll try to define the different styles I have found in my collection...and borrowed (for the earliest style). So far I have 7 different styles, but I'm learning too, so I'm happy to hear from other members about any omissions...(I'll edit this post as I add scans and styles):

Style 1

I think this is the oldest style - this was used in the mid-90s I believe. Widely rounded corners on the white of the flip. Typewriter font. Zeros have strokes through them. Fat "PSA" top centre. (I don't have one of these in hand, so I'm not sure about the reverse of the flip, or about the slab markings, if any.) This scan was borrowed from a post by jp1216:

[Bosox Blair]

Style 2

This style was used in the late 1990s. The white corners are still rounded, but not as widely. Type font is changed to the one that has remained ever since (though at times it has been more bold/dark). "PSA" at top center remains fat and same font style. Reverse of the flip - the markings are on the holder, not the reverse of the flip. To the left, the white print is on the holder and can be felt with the finger. To the right, the hologram is PSA on a ball. On the holder itself there is a small raised PSA symbol in the lower right front corner (on this style, it is not on the reverse of the holder, nor is there a reverse numerical character...see later styles):

[Bosox Blair]

Style 3

The white corners are still rounded as with Style 2. Type font is same as Style 2, as is "PSA" at top center. Reverse of the flip - the markings are on the holder, not the reverse of the flip. To the left, the white print is on the holder and can be felt with the finger. To the right, the hologram has now changed and is "Collectors Universe". On the holder itself there is a small raised PSA symbol in the lower right corner on the front and now added is the same raised symbol on the lower right on the reverse of the holder. (There is still no reverse numerical character...see later styles):

[Bosox Blair]

Style 4

The flip is identical to Style 3. The difference is with the slab - there is now an addition. Now, if you look very closely at the left lower front and left lower reverse of the slab, you can see a reversed numerical character which cannot be felt on the outside of the holder. (It appears to be a raised symbol, but raised on the inside of the slab. I doubt I could capture this with a scan.)

[Bosox Blair]

Style 5

This style is the same as Style 4 in all respects except that the PSA on the top center is skinny - almost as though the "bold" was taken off:

[Bosox Blair]

Style 6

Quite significant changes here. White corners on the flip are now square. The type font is now quite bold/black. "PSA" at top center of flip is changed to what I'll call logo-font. Reverse of the flip - the markings are no longer on the holder. They are now on the reverse of the flip itself, in shiny silver print. There is no hologram anymore:

[Bosox Blair]

Style 7

This is the current style - in effect since about 2008, I believe. The most significant change here is that the numerical grade has been moved down to the line below the letters of the grade. This also coincides with a major change by PSA to use half-grades in their grading system. The font type of the flip is now not as bold/black as it was in Style 6:

Scans in the next post...

[Bosox Blair]

Style 7 scans:

[egbeachley]

Nice job! Maybe this should be one of those threads archived for reference.

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks for showing all of the PSA examples.Most of mine seem to be like examples 6 & 7..........but with all of the changes-this is why I have a hard time being able to spot a "fake flip".
This will be a good thread to refer back to if ever in doubt.
Would it also help to show examples of fake or altered PSA flips in this thread ?Just wondering.

Sincerely,Clayton

[terjung]

Great post! Thank you very much for doing that!

-Brian

[onlychild]

Would it also help to show examples of fake or altered PSA flips in this thread ?Just wondering.

This may be a good start for many.

The PSA "made flip (from photo)" was made using the proper front and actually looks far better in-person. The fake Wagner flip, lost some resolution when enlarged...it too looks much better. Other than the eBay example (which is unknown), each fake PSA flip was made using a real PSA flip, so the backs are perfectly normal.

Real flips can be found printed in all different angles and alignments. This is especially true with SGC flips.




Kevin Saucier
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[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Kevin.

It's amazing to me how you really need to know how to identify the smallest of details when spotting a fake from the real deal.This is a big help to me,and I appreciate it.Great thread!!!!

Sincerely,Clayton

Also,it proves true that you should really get to know and understand the cards you are buying before spending huge $$$ on them

[Zach Wheat]

Wow great info guys. This is really helpful. Has anyone tracked the SGC changes as well? I know some of their old flips look a lot different.

MEWheat

[4815162342]

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I was leary about a purchase because of a PSA slabbed card that looked strange compared to the ones I own. But thanks to your help, I now know it's just an old flip.

[Irwin Fletcher]

I just want to echo everyone's sentiments and say thanks - this is a great resource.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How expensive is a hologram? Common sense suggests it would be much harder to fake a hologram than a flip. I assume PSA went away from these only because of the expense.

[Howe’s Hunter]

Although I like the looks of the SGC holders, I bust out all cards I get that have been graded (with my focus, no matter what the holder, it makes the rubber stampings look even more faded). So I have about 15 "flips" that I've saved as I free the cards. Should the grading companies be made aware of that type of activity, so they don't continue to list a card in there population reports, or do you just forget about it, since you know you won't be resubmitting?

[4815162342]

You can send them in and they'll update the pop reports.

[4815162342]

But they have trouble updating an incorrect cert for the most well-known card in the world: http://www.psacard.com/Cert/14442551.html That cert belongs to a Heinie Wagner card that sold on eBay in late July 2009.

[onlychild]

How expensive is a hologram? Common sense suggests it would be much harder to fake a hologram than a flip. I assume PSA went away from these only because of the expense.

Peter, The hologram they used was on the slab during that time, the blue flip back was blank. PSA has been well aware of the security issues and weaknesses, for a few years now Seems they have made a conscious effort to simply avoid the problem. A simple hologram (perhaps numbered to match the cert) on the flip itself or using a water mark type paper would certainly help.

Kevin

[Ngs428]

I have spent enough time staring at PSA labels... That got me thinking about what changes have been made over time and how have they looked from the beginning in 1991 to today. There were a couple good forum threads on this topic already, so I used those as referenced sources and made up the difference myself.

The purpose of this guide is to show the historic changes of the labels, identify what an authentic label looks like and to help identify the approximate date of when a card was graded.

My compiled guide is linked below. If you have any comments, deletions, additions, etc. please let me know.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbhcm18nj2...Label.pdf?dl=0

[eldon80]

Great job to all who built this thread, and thanks Ngs428 for the manual - that is really good!

[h2oya311]

STYLE 8

The newest PSA flips now have a hologram on front, starting within the past few years. I think the backs look the same as the previous style. This version was used from around 4/17/2015 to about 6/13/2017.

[h2oya311]

STYLE 8

4/17/15 - https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...edded-hologram

STYLE 9

6/14/17 - https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...ook-technology

Scans of style 9 front and back, from the link. Notice the new PSA logo as well as the PSA in the background of the paper flip.

[MVSNYC]

I think the graphics, and amount of, are a bit heavy handed on the latest version. I prefer style #8, but I know they’re trying to have as many security features as possible...I just wish they could’ve achieved that in a (visually) quieter way. (Sorry, I have a discerning eye, as a designer).

[Fred]

Surprised nobody included this one...


http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1518110293

[ncinin]

This PSA ad is from the 1992 Atlanta National program.

I have not seen a flip like this is a long time but they may exist is collections dormant since 1992 or 1993.

[joshuanip]

Hi Fred,

Just got back in not too long ago and I have the knowledge of a newbie. I know Mastro cut that card from watching American Greed, but is it slabbed after he cut the card?

[Fred]

Yes, the card was slabbed after it was cut from a strip of cards. PSAs first slabbed card. The original holder flip is different. It must have been placed in the holder with the McNall/Gretzky flip as a hype flip.

I wonder if PSA would buy back that card (or pay the difference in value) after they now know they graded a trimmed card and assigned it an "8" grade. Surprised it didn't grade a "9".

I wish I could find my auction catalog that had the "Hall" T206 collection of cards. Holy crap, you could see PSA assigned numerical grades to obviously trimmed cards.

[joshuanip]

Thanks for the info.

[nat]

Bumping this thread with a few extra details that I noticed. The reverse of style 8 is different than the reverse of style 7. In particular, the PSA logo and the text about being a division of collector's universe are holograms on style 8 flips, whereas on style 7 they were just silver.

There also might have been a change to the slab itself - although I don't have enough graded cards to know for sure. All of my style 8 and 9 cards have a deep lip around the edge of the reverse of the slab. I have two cards in slabs with older flips (styles 3 and 7) and they both have a much shallower lip around the edge on the reverse.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Style 4
The flip is identical to Style 3. The difference is with the slab - there is now an addition. Now, if you look very closely at the left lower front and left lower reverse of the slab, you can see a reversed numerical character which cannot be felt on the outside of the holder. (It appears to be a raised symbol, but raised on the inside of the slab. I doubt I could capture this with a scan.)

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

This has come up tangentially in other threads - the changes over the years are confusing when trying to ensure PSA cards are legit. Is there a thread anywhere on this Board, or a webpage anyone knows of where the changes over the years are discussed and illustrated with scans?

If not, I was thinking of starting on that with this thread. Please reply if you know of something already out there.

Cheers,
Blair

I believe I have a style 6 according to your thread. One interesting quirk about my flip is that it is "bumpy" or "wavy" which I have seen discussed once or twice on this board. I checked the ink/spacing/font under magnification and there are no errors like the forged examples I’ve seen. The card is authentic 1969 Topps and holds true to PSA 8 standards. Plastic has the PSA logo in correct spots and no signs of scratching from reholder. I think board consensus on bumpys is likely human error but these slips always give me irrational pause…anyone else?

I agree with your theory on style 7 that the “numerical grade has been moved down to the line below the letters of the grade” but I think on the longer lines like "NM - MT" one it reverts back to the older spacing.

Good looking out Blair and I hope this thread continues to move forward.

[bobbyw8469]

This the THE ULTIMATE thread of the flips...

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...rchived-thread

The older ones anyway......