One T206, Two Names

[Jantz]

I wanted to post a scan of this T206 since I know there are a few other board members who are interested in T206s with multiple names. I was one of the underbidders on this Ebay auction that ended tonight. Anyway, here is a scan of the front and back. Bender is the name on the top.


Jantz

[marvjung]

I watched that auction - ending price was pretty strong imo.

[t206hound]

Jantz, I was the winner of the card. I had to look at that card twelve times to make sure I wasn't seeing things. A nice companion to my Chase-Zimmerman.

[tiger8mush]

The only T206 I have w/two names is Wilson, Pittsburgh - P350/25. His name is on both top and bottom. Most t206s that I've seen have the same name top and bottom.

So what does this say about the cards printed on a sheet? Were there different players on each sheet for Piedmont 150 series but many rows of the same player per sheet for Piedmont 350 run?

[t206hound]

Jantz has a lot of information on the "two different name" T206s. I don't know if anyone has deciphered a pattern or has a theory. I believe the Bradley-Bender brings the number of known cards that exhibit this to 19. I have a list (and scans) somewhere... just have to dig it up.

[danmckee]

I had a few dozen of these that I got in a huge T206 error collection I bought. I sold a bunch on ebay and they never brought much. I think I still have a few left but I am fairly sure all have the same player's name top and bottom. I will try to dig them out and check the names.

[Gradedcardman]

Guys,

I have gone through some recent additions and have this card too add to the checklist. This is a Livingstone/Maloney 2 name card. Scans are attached.

[atx840]

Hopefully a board member picked this up. Great card.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by atx840

Hopefully a board member picked this up. Great card.

I was the under bidder... Didn't think someone would go to $800 with the juice. Very nice card, though. And I do hope someone here got it.

[mrvster]

Chris!!! ERICK!!

CRAP!!!


hoping one of you guys scored it....

Get that card!

[Runscott]

Not as cool as a '2 different names', but I really like this Byrne I got from Greg (GNaz) - thanks!

[Runscott]

I could have sworn I posted this - sorry if it's a duplicate:

[g_vezina_c55]

my first two name card and my last pick up. i dont have it in my hand now, but look like to have another Purtell name on top.

[atx840]

Great pickup, I've noticed that the names can be all over the place hight wise.

A two name card has to be the top example on the bottom half of a sheet with a lower printed name from the above different player then by chance cut long/top player cut short.

Several things had to happen to get the Bender like that, a neat "rarity" for sure.

[Jantz]

Since the list of two-namers has grown, here is my updated list. If anyone can add anything to my list or fill in any gaps, it would be greatly appreciated. Especially if its a typo or incorrect info. Thanks to all the members who helped add to this list.

Player Card Name on Top Card Back (if known)

1. Abbatichio(brown) Cicotte PD 350
2. Atz Hoffman PD 350
3. Bradley(port) Bender(port) PD 150-25
4. Chase(blue port) Zimmerman PD 350-25
5. Delehanty(Wash) Waddell(port)
6. Elberfeld(NY port) Parent PD350
7. Engle Phillippe PD350-25
8. Hoblitzell Stephens PD350
9. Jennings(port) T.Jordan(Bkln.port) PD350-25
10. Killian(pitch) Chance(red port) PD150
11. Killian(port) Dubuc SC 350-30
12. Lindaman Bresnahan(port) PD150-25
13. Lundgren(Cubs) Ball(NY)
14. Lundgren(Cubs) Doolin PD 150-25
15. McElveen Dygert PD350
16. McGlynn Jones(Det) SC 350-30
17. Pickering Myers(?) SC 350
18. Snodgrass(bat) Maddox PD 350-25
19. Spade Cicotte PD 150-25
20. Turner Lobert PD 350
21. McGraw(port no cap) Chesbro
22. Powell(horizontal) O'Leary(port) PD 150
23. Barbeau Strang SC 350-30
24. Criger Ritchey
25. Rossman Thomas SC 350 30
26. Bresnahan(port) Doolin
27. Livingstone Maloney PD 350 25
28. Graham(St.L) Clark SC 350 30
29. Bender(port) Delehanty(Wash) PD 150 25
30. Bowerman Chance(port, color ?) SC 350
31. McGraw(?) Hayden SC 350
32. Keeler(?) McGraw(?)


Jantz

[BobbyVCP]

More for you from VCP the are all listed in our T206 GMO set which stands for Ghosts, Miscuts and oddities.

Adkins ( I can not make out the top)
Barry-Shad
Crandall/Crandall (Tolstoi back)
Doyle-bat (Tolstoi back)
Dubuc
Evers-port
Flick
Hahn/Hahn (SC)
Krause-port
Merkle-throwing (Tolstoi back)
Mitchel-Mike
Needham/Needham
Parent
Paskert
Shaw-Hunky
Smith-Happy/Smith-Happy
Walsh
Williams
Willis-bat/Willis-bat (Old Mill)

There are images of all cards but some are to hard to make out what the top name is for certain.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

More for you from VCP the are all listed in our T206 GMO set which stands for Ghosts, Miscuts and oddities.

Bobby, how do you do such a search on the VCP site? I keep coming up with "no results"

[T206Collector]

But if

(A) Most top-bottom miscuts show the same name

and

(B) Most left-right miscuts show the same player

then

(C) Wouldn't most sheets be of just one player?

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Bobby, how do you do such a search on the VCP site? I keep coming up with "no results"

You need to do an ACC search for T206 and will list all the different sets we cover with backs. The GMO is for ghost, miscuts and oddities containing also blank backs and proofs, etc..

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by atx840

A two name card has to be the top example on the bottom half of a sheet with a lower printed name from the above different player then by chance cut long/top player cut short.

So were there only two players per printed sheet? Top half of the sheet was one player, bottom half another player?

[atx840]

All side by side cards I have seen have a different players. One theory is the layout could have 3 or 4 rows of each player and a dozen+ columns.

If the first row of EFGH cards are miscut they could show the names of the last ABCD row.

ABCD
ABCD
EFGH
EFGH

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

All side by side cards I have seen have a different players. One theory is the layout could have 3 or 4 rows of each player and a dozen+ columns.

If the first row of EFGH cards are miscut they could show the names of the last ABCD row.

ABCD
ABCD
EFGH
EFGH

Great stuff, Chris - I wasn't aware of this. Since some cards exist with two different names above them, it sounds like positioning was not set in 'stone'

[atx840]

Exactly, we have seen your Bender, Lundgren and Cicotte in different player combinations. The Bender is extra neat as so far it the only example of a card being a top and bottom card.

I'm doubting we will figure out a sheet layout with all the possible configurations but they are interesting to track.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by atx840

Exactly, we have seen your Bender, Lundgren and Cicotte in different player combinations. The Bender is extra neat as so far it the only example of a card being a top and bottom card.

Maybe the reason you're seeing it in both places is because one is a portrait, and the other is a pitching pose (with or without trees).

Ditto Lundgren and KC/CHI variations.

[atx840]

Possibly. However I am basing these off of the T206resource.com print groups & back specifics.

[Ladder7]

Same name,

[toppcat]

It's easy to speculate on rows/columns being a set number of players but don't forget that Obak sheet from H&S two years ago, where a lot of the placement was random. I think there is a decent probability some randomness occurred, or certain sections of each sheet could have room for random, or ad hoc arrangements in the printing of T206.

Having said that, this is a fascinating thread. I wonder if it can be correlated with the threads about back miscuts, large borders and stamped numbers at the edge of sheets. I suspect not unfortunately. Seems like a lot of puzzle pieces are out there but they can't all be linked between all the different types of miscuts.

[atx840]

The 34 649 OP back cards probably were all on one sheet. Brian's side by side example, the Sheckard and Goode cards are both 649 OPs. I've wanted to see a back scan of this card for years if anyone has it.

I'm wondering if the sheets of the 34 players were selected after primary printing to be overprinted or if ALC chose those players specifically for the 649 sheet.

Reverse "engineering" these layouts is near impossible but sure is fun.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by atx840

Reverse "engineering" these layouts is near impossible but sure is fun.

This exercise is only possible with the free flow of information, including scans, in an online forum such as this. Unimaginable just 10 or 15 years ago.

[steve B]

I still believe the number of players on a sheet was smaller than that. There's a group of 150 series that has only a few backs available and there are only 10-12 that fit that pattern. Even those break down into two groups, one less common than the other. I think at least that group was two sheets of only 6 players. (And that each was reworked at least once)

Steve B

[iggyman]

For those that are keeping score, I was fortunate enough to pluck this one from the T206 double name tree. Too bad it wasn't Magie, but I'm okay with it.

Lovely Day...

[atx840]

Very cool iggy, thanks for sharing.

[Runscott]

Wow. A 'Magie' error on the top would have been amazing....but this is good

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Isn't there a good possibility that you could have the same player/pose with a different double name if they came on different backs? Since each back did not print the same players?

Lee

[mrvster]

i beleive there is an example......cant remember the 2 cards tho...maybe jantz or chris knows....

a magie on top would be insane

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

Isn't there a good possibility that you could have the same player/pose with a different double name if they came on different backs? Since each back did not print the same players?

Lee

Lee - Just wanted to add a little more info to your question. Cicotte is a key card at the moment since the Abbaticchio(brown)/Cicotte is a Piedmont 350 and the Spade/Cicotte is a Piedmont 150.

Hard to tell with the Lundgren cards since the back information is unknown for the Lundgren/Ball at this time.


Jantz

[atx840]

Added Rossman/McBride, second Rossman combination.

[atx840]

Saw that, just updating and will post.

[Pat R]

...

[atx840]

Nice 649 back.

Updated with Lennox/Clancy (Clancey). Higher resolution as requested Link

[Jlighter]

In case anyone cares a two name Billy Campbell is up for auction. Lot 48 Sterling Auctions.

[atx840]

Picked up this Moran/Arellanes. It also has an F.F. Baker stamp.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by atx840

Nice 649 back.

Updated with Lennox/Clancy (Clancey). Higher resolution as requested Link

Thats Great! This is where newer style research on this set pays off...A visual aid! Well done man!
GB

[Gradedcardman]

Jantz,

Here is another McGraw/Chesbro with a PD 350 back.

[Gradedcardman]

Oakes/Easterly

[rdwyer]

I was hoping to get mine back from PSA yesterday, but I have to wait another week. It has 2 names. Abstein/Somebody else. (Dunno who yet) I'll post the name and scans when I get it back.

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Chris,
Here is another Powell/O'Leary....
Hope you are well. Brian

[Howe’s Hunter]

Glad to see you are back on board, Brian.

[atx840]

Very interesting Brian, two miscut Powell/O'Learys. Maybe the whole stack of sheets were miscut, great find.

[mrvster]

adam and brian ....great finds!!!

glad u are back brian!!

adam, u have become a true error collector