Unique Philadelphia Phillies Lummis Peanut Butter/Sealtest Printers Proofs

[btcarfagno]

Only two of these (Rowe and Seminick) were ever actually issued. The 1949 Lummis Peanut Butter cards are some of the most difficult of any type card. Sealtest is also very tough to find.

These proof cards are of varying sizes, so they could possibly have been produced to test which size would fit best with the various products. The inclusion of Pennock, who died in early 1948, tells me that these were likely produced in 1947 or very early 1948. The Pennock is his last known appearance on a card. All of these are unique, one of a kind cards (except obviously the Schultz where there are two of him).

Pennock $600
Seminick $300
Rowe $300
Walker $200
Leonard $200
Chapman $200
Schultz $200

Tom C

[sflayank]

how can you know these were intended to be used by lummis/sealtest?
rowe and seminick are same pictures but these could be proofs of picture pack photos?
larry

[btcarfagno]

Size is equivalent to Lummis/Sealtest. These are card size. Not picture pack size. Also, Phillies picture packs were not issued in the late 1940's.

Tom C

[Wite3]

Tom,
Interesting collection but not convinced these are proofs for the Sealtest/Lummis series...these could actually be a test for the company on the back. For that matter, they might be an issue that was going to be put out by that company but was never distributed. I am no engineer but electrotyping is metal imprinting and has nothing to do with picture printing if I recall. I have not done a search on the Rapid company yet but it might be worth doing. Just because something has the same size and a couple of same photos, does not mean it is Lummis...those photos were reused in several issues in and around that timeframe. Heck, I have seen that Seminick pic is several times. All that being said, it is cool stuff and certainly unique. You might want to throw this on the front page, people there would be interested and might help you with research.

Joshua

[btcarfagno]

Thank you Joshua. I will do that.

My thoughts on the Lummis/Sealtest connection:

1. They were regional Philadelphia issues and these are Phillies only and stamp on back is also Philadelphia.
2. Size-wise they are very similar to Lummis/Sealtest
3. Shape-wise they are very similar to Lummis/Sealtest
4. Of the seven players, only two were in the Lummis/Sealtest issue. Those two happen to have the same exact photos as do the Lummis/Sealtest cards of those players? Possible coincidence. But it would be HUGE coincidence. If there was a player in the lot that had a different image than he had in the Lummis/Sealtest it would give me great pause. But the two who ended up in the set just happen to be the same exact photos as Lummis/Sealtest?
5. Every other player in this lot other than the two who ended up in the Lummis/Sealtest set were no longer with the team by the time the Lummis/Sealtest issue was released. So, again it would be a HUGE coincidence if this has nothing to do with that particular issue, yet the only two issued in card form are the ones who were still on the team when that particular set was released, AND those two happen to have the exact same images as they did in that set.

Circumstantial evidence I will agree. But there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence.

Tom C

[whiteymet]

Tom:

Sorry to poke holes in your theory, but I am with Larry and Josh, these are NOT Lummis proofs. I can "refute" two or three of the things you quote as circumstantial evidence.

The Seminick photo, as well as many of the others used for the Sealtest/Lummis cards were stock team photos, as is evidenced by many of them being used in the Phillies 1949 Yearbook.

What I do know for sure is that there are others much larger and different shaped, than your eight, so your saying they are very similar size and shape wise to the Lummis is not accurate. See my previous post about them below.

And finally to quote you, TAKE A GREAT PAUSE... you will see in my post a School Boy Rowe in a DIFFERENT pose and uniform style than his card in the Lummis set. First photo second from the left bottom row.

I do not believe the listing where you won these mentioned that they were Lummis proofs either. They ID'd them as being Rapid Electrotype printing proof cards. See:

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...entoryid=90777

My post is here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=178002


Interested in your and others take on the above and the photos in my earlier post.

Fred

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Thank you Joshua. I will do that.

My thoughts on the Lummis/Sealtest connection:

1. They were regional Philadelphia issues and these are Phillies only and stamp on back is also Philadelphia.
2. Size-wise they are very similar to Lummis/Sealtest
3. Shape-wise they are very similar to Lummis/Sealtest
4. Of the seven players, only two were in the Lummis/Sealtest issue. Those two happen to have the same exact photos as do the Lummis/Sealtest cards of those players? Possible coincidence. But it would be HUGE coincidence. If there was a player in the lot that had a different image than he had in the Lummis/Sealtest it would give me great pause. But the two who ended up in the set just happen to be the same exact photos as Lummis/Sealtest?
5. Every other player in this lot other than the two who ended up in the Lummis/Sealtest set were no longer with the team by the time the Lummis/Sealtest issue was released. So, again it would be a HUGE coincidence if this has nothing to do with that particular issue, yet the only two issued in card form are the ones who were still on the team when that particular set was released, AND those two happen to have the exact same images as they did in that set.

Circumstantial evidence I will agree. But there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence.

Tom C

[btcarfagno]

That is tremendous!

Does this mean that these were possibly issued over more than one year? Does it make them possibly a previously unknown set of some sort? This just gets more and more interesting.

One thing though. Mears not mentioning something in their listing does not in and of itself tell you what something is or is not. Trust me when I say I have made thousands of dollars over the past two years from Mears not exactly knowing what they had when they auctioned it off.

I paid what I did thinking that they had to be Lummis/Sealtest, and Mears just (once again) had no idea. Now I do not know what they are, but am more curious than ever wondering if these are something new.

They are almost a metallic stock. I don't know how to describe the material they are made from. The borders around the photo are actually raised as are the names.

I'm so confused but also excited to find out more. Should I move this over to the main forum? I don't want to take room from others in the BST if we are just discussing the cards themselves.

Tom C

[steve B]

Rapid electrotype was a huge and old company that made electrotype printing plates primarily for advertisers, often for use in newspaper ads. They had offices in Cincinnati, Chicago, New York, Detroit and Philadelphia.

There's also a link online to a discussion of a similar item showing one of the DiMaggios.

My guess since they made mass produced electrotypes for ads is that the proofs are their own in-house proofs to assure the individual electrotype was correct. Maybe something that was sent along with the electrotype?

I didn't find a patent for a proofing mat under their name on Google patents, so either the OCR got it wrong, or the patent was never issued.

None of which proves or disproves any connection between the proofs and any particular set. It's possible the Lumis set was made using commercially prepared mass produced electrotypes. I'd have to actually have one to know if it was electrotyped, and I don't.

Steve B

[steve B]

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive...A/td-p/3004785