14 CJ Johnson BVG 6 on ebay

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Any chance this would cross over to a "real" holder? Or is this one of those cards that was probably sent to BVG because the others rejected it? Thanks.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1914-Cracker-Jack-Walter-Johnson-BVG-6-57_W0QQitemZ5226884942QQcategoryZ31718QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Marc S.

I cannot tell from looking at the scans. But there are two big warning flags to me in this auction:

A) A Cracker Jack card in a BVG holder is leaving money on the table if it is authentic and unaltered. A 'rational' person should not be expected to do this.

B) The seller consigned the card to the Ebay seller. Could be someone reputable getting rid of a card through someone else - because he himself does not want to sell such a card as this without adequate disclosure.

~ms

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Posted By: cmoking

I don't know anything about Crackerjacks, but I actually think there is a good chance this card is legit.

The two points against it not being legit are:
1. Leaving money on the table to be in a BVG holder.
2. Consigned card maybe real seller hiding his identity.

I think that scenario is possible, but not probable. To me, what is more probable is:

1. It was an unsophisticated collector who doesn't know much about grading or grading companies. He picks up Beckett at his local bookstore, and thus uses BVG to grade his one (or few) vintage cards.

2. Then he tries to sell it, but since he's unsophisticated, he's not comfortable putting it out on ebay himself. So he gets someone else to sell it for him.

That sounds like a likely story to me.

I'm not saying anything about the card, just thinking through the scenario. My wilde guess is: 90% legit, 10% altered card.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I recently purchased a T206 Cycle Crawford PSA 6 from "consignments". The card was completely legit and unaltered.

HOWEVER, when I received the invoice and later the card, I got the impression that the card was shipped directly from the owner rather than "consignments". I'm not sure that "consignments" ever physically placed their hands on the card.

Brian

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

is usually pretty good .Me personally...I dont like the bottom of the card as Iam more geared to collect C-J's a lil off s/s opposed to t/b.

price may be right at auctions end ,never know.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

I am totally unaware of any problems Beckett has ever had with vintage stuff in their holder's that show'ed sign's of tampering and should'nt be slabbed. I have owned many T206's in their holder and have never had a problem, PERIOD.
We all know that cards slabbed by others from those fly by night authenticators other than GAI, SGC, Psa, and even BVG usually are not legit in some way.
But Beckett, although not my 1st or 2nd choice to send pre-war material to is in my opinion, highly reputable.
Most recent, picked up a nice BVG-4 T206 Cobb green portrait.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5218951054

It measures out fine and is a definate high grade (4) and I have no problem leaving it in the BVG holder it's in. Not a big fan of breaking cards out and
BVG is fine with me.

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Posted By: will watson

"I am totally unaware of any problems Beckett has ever had with vintage stuff in their holder's that show'ed sign's of tampering and should'nt be slabbed. I have owned many T206's in their holder and have never had a problem, PERIOD. "

you're kidding, right? Beckett is the laughingstock of the grading world. they're notorious for grading trimmed and sheet cut cards

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Posted By: Brent Butcher

I to don't have a problem with Beckett and actually find them good for buyers because of their conservative grading and the fact that most SGC and PSA collectors do not accept them as a reputable grader therefore, lower selling prices. I sent in a dozen or so Chicles and found them tough but very consistent. They also have the best holder in the business as far as protecting the card.

Will, how many sheets of T206's and CJ's do you think are out there? I know you are referring to OPC hockey cards and maybe other 1970's sets but an educated collector already knows about these downfalls when dealing with BVG. I myself have broken out many BVG 8.5's and 8's from the 70's(football mainly) and received 9's from PSA.

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Posted By: leon

I would say that most BVG cards are going to be ok. I will also say that I was going to buy a, what looked to be obviously rebacked T206 Red Cobby with a Drum back, off of ebay that was in their holder. I asked the President of Beckett if they would buy the card back if it turned out to be no good. They wouldn't. Everyone on the board, including myself, thought it wasn't good. Without a guarantee I didn't buy it. Nuff said.....( I do think this Matty is probably good though )....I would put BVG at the bottom of the reputable, vintage card, grading companies list. Just my personal opinion ....regards

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Posted By: Elliot

Beckett has shown a couple of times (including leon's example above) that they will not stand behind their product. Also, given the low number of vintage cards they grade, i question their ability to detect trimming and other alterations. However, i don't think they would grade a reprint of a common issue.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

As mentioned in my response, I did say that Bvg was not my 1st or 2nd choice when it comes to pre-war authentication, but to say they are the laughing stock of the market is not correct.
We all transfer an auction from Ebay almost daily where a card is in question or the grade doesnt look correct to what was given, and many times, those cards are in an Sgc, Psa, or Gai holder.
None of the big three are 100% correct all the time, nor is Bvg, but this grading game we are involved in isnt without error from any one of the authenticators.
Singling out Beckett as the laughing stock of the industry is incorrect. They all have their perk's and cards in question..........