BIN vs. Auction

[jb217676]

I find BIN prices on ebay to be almost double what a final auction price would be for the exact same card. What do you guys think?

[cbcbcb]

I agree completely. I don't understand why sellers do it and continue to relist the same item for astronomical prices.

[tbob]

Obviously some sellers are relying on:
1) an uneducated buyer
2) the chance for a "counter-offer" at the real price they are willing to sell a card for
3) the low listing prices for BIN items
4) the impulse buying mood striking

I agree with the posters, it gets very old to see the same sellers trotting out the same old inventory at exorbitant prices month after month. One encouraging note, I have seen a couple of these sellers suddenly release some of these cards as auctions with low starting bids lately.

[jb217676]

Not only do I collect vintage baseball cards, but I also collect vintage hockey cards. The only set I am actively working on right now is a PSA 8 1963-64 Parkhurst hockey set, making these the cards I search for most often on ebay. For example, I have seen the high number Jean Beliveau with a BIN price of $185.00 US. I bought the exact same card in an auction for $58.00 US delivered. Unless you have money to burn or just need one or two cards to finish a set, I would always avoid a BIN price.

[lharri3600]

final value fees on bin's is around 18%

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

final value fees on bin's is around 18%

I thought it was 8% ?

[bobbyw8469]

Speaking for myself as a seller, it gets old selling a VCP average $950 card sell for only $300 thru the auction format. Alot of sellers get tired of giving their stuff away thru auctions when noone bids on them. That is why you see all of the BIN's.......

[sgbernard]

But if there's no one who will pay $950 for it, then it's not worth $950, no matter what the VCP says.

[bobbyw8469]

No, but you seem to expect to be close to that. If Wal-Mart stock sold last week for $50 a share, you don't expect yours to sell the very next week for $3.

[bobbyw8469]

...to summarize, it only takes one or two auctions where the sellers loses quite a bit on money to turn him/her off of the auction format and stick with BIN's....Ebay just isn't a fun place to buy OR sell anymore.

The best BIN's are the ones so over priced they will never sell and after a few months the same people over and over buy the cards from the sellers. Sounds fishy to me. I think I have seen one relisted layely from the seller that had it listed last yr. Funny how he sold it for 4x's it's price and got the same one back to sell again. Think it has to do with the power seller status or something

[bobbyw8469]

If he sold it awhile backj, and is selling it again, more than likely he had a deadbeat bidder win it. They seem to be plentiful lately, and we can't leave them negatives to warn other sellers.....

[WarHoundR69]

If you have an Ebay Store it costs between 3 to 5 cents to list a BIN. Then every 30 days the item automatically relists at no additional charge.

I have the best offer option listed with the BIN price. I get a certain amount of BIN purchases but I'm usually willing to except offers up to 40% off the BIN price.

So open an Ebay Store ($15.95 per month for the cheapest option), list once for a few pennies and forget about it until you get your price for what you are selling. After all a collectible is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

If you don't like the price, move on & don't complain about it. If you don't need cash immediately you can be pretty patient (From a seller's perspective) and wait for your price.

[bbcemporium]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Speaking for myself as a seller, it gets old selling a VCP average $950 card sell for only $300 thru the auction format. Alot of sellers get tired of giving their stuff away thru auctions when noone bids on them. That is why you see all of the BIN's.......

Bobbyw8469,
Which card of yours sold for $300 that had a VCP of $950? I regularly buy and sell cards via the auction format, and they nearly always end near the average VCP, some better, some worse.

[calvindog]

Could be that Frank DiRoberto was the underbidder on that $950 card and that's why it went so high. You guys appreciate that not all cards that are 'sold' and end up on VCP are not actually sold, right? This was part of the Mastro business model.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You guys appreciate that not all cards that are 'sold' and end up on VCP are not actually sold, right?

Next thing you'll be saying that a peanut is not a nut.

[bbcemporium]

Calvindog,
I primarily collect post-war cards that have a wealth of sales history, so an anomaly is fairly easy to identify. However, yes, I am aware of sellers with rare, scarce, or low pop cards trying to create a false sales history to influence future sales.

[calvindog]

Well, while I do find that most post-war graded cards usually end up within a range from ebay sales, I do agree that there can be the occasional very wide disparity -- but usually not 2-300% off, right?

[bbcemporium]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, while I do find that most post-war graded cards usually end up within a range from ebay sales, I do agree that there can be the occasional very wide disparity -- but usually not 2-300% off, right?

For post-war cards, with the exception of rare, scarce and low pop cards, I have observed a relatively low deviation of sales prices (maybe 10-30%). If the difference is much higher, usually there is a reason why. That is why I was curious as to what card bobby had sold.

[calvindog]

I agree completely.

[Kenny Cole]

I used to look at buy it nows in the newly listed category. I don't even waste my time anymore. I would rather take the chance of missing a bin card at a decent price, which is not very likely, than spend the time it takes to parce through all of the ridiculously priced stuff that people put up. If folks actually buy stuff at those prices, power to them. I'll go ahead and wait for an auction, pay 20% vig, and still probably spend less than I would if I bought from the idiotic bin prices on ebay.

[doug.goodman]

I always assume that BIN sellers set prices as high as they do because "it can't hurt to ask".

Conversely, I've never been afraid to contact a BIN seller with what I consider to be a fair offer.

I have bought items for less than 20% of the BIN price with and without the make offer option.

Doug

[bobbyw8469]

I would LOVEEEEE to get BEST OFFERS within 20% of my BIN price. For example, I have an unopened box of 1988 Fleer Basketball Wax. I have it for BIN OBO of $430. I am getting offers of $250-$300. BBCE is currently paying $325 per box. Why on Earth would I sell it for less on Ebay, and then have them take out fees, when I just just ship it off to the BBCE for $325 no fees?!?!?! They buy for $325 and sell for $475. I am constantly getting offers below other dealers BUY prices.....I don't mind giving someone a deal, but come on!!!!!

[bobbyw8469]

I am just telling you from a seller's point of view, why there are so many BINs.....from a sellers' perspective, when you auction a card, and it sells for $100 less than VCP average for a Mantle mid grade, it just makes you sick and want to give up auctions.............so to cut the through the junk, not all BIN's are ridiculous overpriced and not all auctions go for dirt cheap. But only the buyers see the high priced items and only the sellers see how cheap there stuff is going for. If only there could be a happy medium....

[calvindog]

Bobby, you make fair points: the grass is always greener, no doubt.

And some of the times, the reason bidders don't put offers on BINs within 20% of the price is because the BIN price is 40-50% higher than it should be. For example, there are two Cobb cards I'm interested in on ebay with ridiculously high BINs. I made offers on both higher than what the cards have normally sold for over the past few years -- and each time I have gotten countered with prices of $50 less than the BIN. Not surprisingly, I was the only one to make an offer on either card during the 30 day period. At least in NYC real estate, when no one buys a listed apartment after a few months the prices get cut. On ebay, the high prices just linger forever.

[bobbyw8469]

Calvin! Check out my cards!! If I EVER have anything you want, I will deal! I am happy just to make enough to buy lunch the next day! I am not naming any names, but yes some of those sellers DO have ridiculous high prices. I made a huge offer on a car from a seller named after a famous high end automobile, and you would have thought I asked him to steal the Mona Lisa. He wouldn't budge one inch......some sellers are just like that....not all.....I have stuff cheap.....but noone ever sees that.....

[Matt]

Bobby - there is a minority of BIN sellers who are ready and willing to sell for reasonable prices (it seems you are one and I believe I am one as well) but the outlandish BIN price charged by many sellers causes many people to ignore BIN listings altogether. I'm looking to take a family vacation this summer and have a few cards on eBay I'd be happy to move at previous sale prices, but people aren't even looking.

[calvindog]

Matt, people do ignore BINs with increasing frequency, no doubt. The alternative is to put the cards in a regular auction with a reserve -- but that is the kiss of death to an ending price from what I can tell.

[cbcbcb]

I look for multiple BINs I am interested in from the same seller and make an offer 50% of the price for the combined lot.

[Rob D.]

I'm a firm believer in sellers asking what they want and letting the chips fall where they may. They own the cards, so let them set the price. We have no idea whether they overpaid for a particular card, really don't want to sell unless they get their stated price, etc.

That being said, I simply can't explain a couple of cards I've seen during the past year. I know that eBay BIN stories are like "bad beat" stories from poker players: Everyone has one and thinks his is the best, and few other people really want to hear about it. Unfortunately, I'm going to tell mine anyway.

Last summer I noticed for the first time as a BIN (with a best-offer option) a T206 Lajoie with a Tolstoi back, PSA 5. Nice card. BIN = $2,495.95.

I like to think I've got a decent grasp of what Lajoie cards sell for, even without checking VCP. But I figured maybe I missed something. VCP has one recorded sale of $717 for this card in this grade, in October 2008. I had seen another sell early last year for just north of $900. So where the seller came up with $2,500, I have no idea.

Last year I made (I think) three offers -- $900, $1,000 and $1,100 -- which were automatically rejected immediately. I shrugged and figured the seller was using the card to draw attention to other cards he really wanted to sell. No big deal. Then last month I see the seller had relisted the card for the same price.

Against my better judgement I send him a nicely worded e-mail complimenting him on the card and explaining that I am interested in buying it if he's interested in selling it. I make an offer of $1,200 -- 33 percent more than I've ever seen this card sell for. I pass along the prices I've seen the card sell for and explain that while I'm willing to overpay for his card, I simply can't go anywhere near the neighborhood that he's asking.

His reply was that we're too far off in price, so there's no way we could reach a deal.

As far as I can tell, I think I'm the only sap who has made offers on the card (at least through the "Make an offer" option).

This experience and a few others that followed the same scenario are the main reason I rarely bother with sellers who list their cards at such outrageous prices. Again, I'm sure they have a strategy. I'm just not following it.

[Robextend]

I agree with most everything that was said, however there are times where you can get a steal on a BIN. Unfortunately I am sure I miss most of those occassions because I only go on EBAY once or twice a day to search. Recently I was fortunate enough to pick up 11 1933 Goudeys at a very reasonable BIN price. I am sure if I didn't see those they would all be gone in a couple days.

[smtjoy]

As a buyer and a seller on ebay, I know the first time I sold a card I purchased for $77 and sold it a year later open auction on ebay for $8.16 it made me think twice on how I was selling cards, once it happened a couple more times I had to make some changes. I am not sure why my cards sold lower, maybe the economy, maybe they were run up by me and one other bidding and when I was out then the card sold cheap, I dont know but I felt it was best to make a change.

Since in most cases I am selling only to buy more cards and I am not in any kind of rush for the money, I started running auctions with high starting bids. This has worked well with about half selling, then I decide on the unsold to either relist lower or move to my store BIN. On the cards I think are quality and I like having in my collection they go to BIN, I look at both what i paid and VCP and come up with a price I am ok to sell at, then mark it up 10% over that. I do not care if my price is xx% higher than VCP if I feel thats what the card is valued to me at because worse case it will just stay in my collection. My store has done great for me, I have about 50 cards listed at any time and I sell 2-4 a month, my inventory has been turning in about 18 months. I had a 15% off sale for a week in Nov and sold 15 cards, great week. I always hear of the negative about stores/BINs here but I have really experienced the opposite. My issue is getting more quality cards to put in my store.

I really also should prefix that with the cards I am selling are not your common 1950-70's topps/bowman types, most are exhibit or oddball Clementes that have low pops and not a lot of VCP data.

I do accept offers and it just depends on the card, I just sold a card that I had listed for $175 for $85, it had been in my store a while and the buyer had purchased another card at my number so I was happy to deal. In other cases like I have a nice 1921 Exhibit Ruth, I have it priced pretty close to what I expect to get out of it and have turned down over 10 offers that were lower than I was willing to go, I am ok with that because its a great card and if I still have it in 5 years that works for me, its also the kind of card that makes for good trade bait.

[ChiefBenderForever]

I am tempted to send thank you notes to a few sellers of ourtrageous BIN where I offered way over VCP and was told they couldn't do it, eventually I was able to pick up even nicer cards for about a third of their asking price and about half of what I offered. I really enjoy the ones who have a best offer and counter at 5.00 less than the price, when bing had 20% off and they still didn't have any sales that should tell them something but if they don't want to ever sell any cards that is their business and more power to them.

[grandslamcardscria]

I believe the main reason for people not using the auction format is because of what everyone else has already said.. The prices are regulary lower and
I believe this reason is caused by Ebay and their recent changes. The category thing is a joke if you dont use item specifics. Your auction will get lumped into 1 general category, (less exposure)... If you are not a TOP rated seller you will not have the exposure either..
Ebay auctions have become a wholesale club for buyers.

[Orioles1954]

There are also some sellers who put their BIN about 10-20% above VCP or other auction related prices realized. I have found these folks to be a lot more accomodating. By the way, how much does a bare bones, no frills e-bay store cost?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There are also some sellers who put their BIN about 10-20% above VCP or other auction related prices realized. I have found these folks to be a lot more accomodating. By the way, how much does a bare bones, no frills e-bay store cost?

Someone should correct me, but I believe with the stores, the final value fees are even higher then they are with eBay auctions (maybe 50% higher) so the listing fee is lower but they hit you harder on the back end.

[smtjoy]

Fees are lower for auction format but if your items are selling for much less, its still well worth it to use BIN's.

Auction format-
$0.01 - $25.00**
8.75% of the closing value

$25.01- $1,000.00
8.75% of the initial $25.00 ($2.19), plus 3.50% of the remaining closing value balance($25.01 - $1,000.00)


Fixed Price-
$0.01 - $50.00
12.00% of the closing value

$50.01 - $1,000.00
12.00% of the initial $50.00, plus 6.00% of the remaining closing value balance ($50.01-$1,000.00)



Stores start at $15.95 plus per listing-

$1.00 - $24.99**
$0.03
$0.03 / 30 days

$25.00 - $199.99
$0.05
$0.05 / 30 days

$200.00 and above
$0.10
$0.10 / 30 days

[J.McMurry]

I love to watch the show "Pawn Stars" on A&E,and a recent episode reminded me of exactly this topic. The head guy swung a deal on some rare historical item and then speaking into the camera said "I'm so glad I got this item, cause I'm going to stick it in a store case and put a REALLY high price tag on it, because I dont care if I never sell it."

[Orioles1954]

Is that 15.95 per month?

[smtjoy]

Yes that is the monthly fee

[doug.goodman]

Evidently, my note was misread, I did not make reference to making offers within 20% of the BIN price, what I said was that I have made offers for 20% of the BIN price.

Yesterday I bought an $80 BIN item for $25 (slightly over 30%).

Doug

[abrahamrudy]

I find that sometimes a card will pop up with a BIN that is at or even below what you'd expect the bid to be. I've been tracking '48 Bowman Rizzutos for a while and I found that low to mid grade cards range from 60 to 100, and all of a sudden one popped up with a BIN for 50. I guess it depends on the seller.

What really ticks me off is how your Best Offer can be rejected automatically. To me, it seems like that kinda defeats the purpose of the B.O. function.

[insidethewrapper]

I've been successful using the "Best Offer" option. I have purchased many items I wanted at 50-70% off the asking BIN price.

Many dealers test the market with BIN, but they don't adjust the price. Let say a card is listed BIN at $ 500 for 60 days with no offers. The dealer needs to adjust to maybe $ 425 for 30 days etc. Dealers need collectors.

I don't understand, most business I have been associated with advise to move inventory and use the cash for more deals.

I've been to shows with dealers having several Mantle Rookies on their tables and will not lower the price. Not much fun to die and still have these cards, so the wife can sell for pennies on the dollar.

[jb217676]

Frustrated again with sellers and BIN prices. Seller had a 1952 Topps Gus Zernial PSA 6 listed at a BIN of $99.99. One sold last night for under $60.00 US. seller didn't even want to negotiate. Looking to buy if anyone can help?

[bobbyw8469]

Sounds like you should have set your snipe higher??? Maybe the $60 auction was a steal?? Just because one card slips under the radar and sells for below average selling price doesn't mean they should all sell that cheaply....

[Exhibitman]

Many good points made here.

The last two years on Ebay have been very trying from a seller's perspective. I have purchased cards for fractions of what they had sold for before the Great Recession hit home. That has to hurt like heck for the sellers and I am sure some of them are absorbing large losses just to generate cash flow. I can definitely see how people who have not got an immediate need for cash could opt to ignore the current market conditions and simply list BINS where they'd like the prices to be. Scott makes a great point about VCP, markets and tough cards. I don't care what a price guide says. It just isn't germane to the discussion because the card is so hard to find anyway. I have been stockpiling tough cards when I can get them for a song because everything is cyclical and when things in general come back so will prices on cards. Buyers who get peeved about a seller not recognizing a short term price swing have to understand that a lot of collectors who deal part time don't need to sell into a slump and won't be swayed by price guides reflecting a down economy. The old line that past performance is no guarantee of future performance swings both directions--just because a card has sold lately for X doesn't mean it will stay at that level--so there is no justification for getting one's knickers in a twist because a seller prices his cards where he thinks they should be. Just call him a nasty name and move on to the next listing.

[mintacular]

I usually take a double-take when I see a BIN at a reasonable price and have to read the description x5 to confirm what my eyes have seen...I think timing has a lot to do with BIN prices. Sellers that do not need a sale that week to pay the bills can afford to float a high-priced BIN item and wait patiently for the right buyer. I would suspect this approach is even more common with pre-war/scarce cards.

Also, I have overpaid a little bit on pre-war cards from a trusted eBay seller because it was in the range of the market price and b/c I am not as savy on prewar prices. (Plus, I didn't want to wait 7 days) Thus, this seller benefited from a higher BIN from me rather than running it auction-style. However, as stated, I agree are there too many BIN listings well above market price and that gets tiresome.