Poor Buck Weaver - Hunt Auctions Content

[slidekellyslide]

Called a "Deviant" and credited with being the mastermind behind the throwing of the 1919 World Series.

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/ima...=578&lot_qual=

[barrysloate]

"Deviant" is a bit harsh. Perhaps "miscreant" would be more appropriate.

[slidekellyslide]

I can accept "not so innocent bystander", but to credit him as the "mastermind" is taking the flowery auction description a bit too far.

[Rich Klein]

Who knew?

I guess Chick Gandil was just the innocent man in the whole 8 men out scheme.

History rewritten courtesy of Hunt Auctions and Louisville Sluggers Files.

And in all seriousness; if they have documentation to prove that; I guarantee you that the various committee members of the SABR Black Sox Scandal (I'm one but one of the least active) would love to get ahold of those papers for their research. We could have some real fun with that.

Regards
Rich

[packs]

In for a penny in for a dollar. Still don't know why people defend the guy. Whether he played well or not, the issue is whether or not he took money and knew the fix was on.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

"Deviant" is a bit harsh. Perhaps "miscreant" would be more appropriate.

How about centurion?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by packs

In for a penny in for a dollar. Still don't know why people defend the guy. Whether he played well or not, the issue is whether or not he took money and knew the fix was on.

He knew the fix was on, but took no money. It is beyond belief to say that no other players on the team besides the 8 accused knew that the fix was on. You think Ray Schalk didn't know the games were being fixed? Also I'm not so sure any player of the day would have notified authorities of a fixed game...Don't think they had a witness protection plan in 1919. Game fixing was not rare in those days...tattling on game fixers was very rare and I'm sure there was a reason for that.

[barrysloate]

Rob- if he were a centurion the book would have been called "One Hundred Men Out."

[GrayGhost]

Pitiful that Hunts would describe him that way. I guess the books/articles/movies Ive seen claiming Chick Gandil as the organizer of the scandal are all liers, and mighty Hunts is right? Umm, just like someone paying 3x what they should for a picture from a big auction, instead of a small one, the name doesnt always make it better or right.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Pitiful that Hunts would describe him that way. I guess the books/articles/movies Ive seen claiming Chick Gandil as the organizer of the scandal are all liers, and mighty Hunts is right? Umm, just like someone paying 3x what they should for a picture from a big auction, instead of a small one, the name doesnt always make it better or right.

I'm fairly certain there is no bad intent from Hunt's here....Just sloppiness...whoever wrote the description probably did no homework, but just went by their own faulty memory when writing up the description. Hunt Auctions has nothing to gain by making a false claim against Weaver.

[101SOX19]

I am sure this was an honest mistake on Hunt's part. I would not be surprised at all for them to make a revision to the description online. I had a question on a lot in the last auction which caused them to make an additional comment to the lot online.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by 101SOX19

I am sure this was an honest mistake on Hunt's part. I would not be surprised at all for them to make a revision to the description online. I had a question on a lot in the last auction which caused them to make an additional comment to the lot online.

I've notified Hunt's in the past of mistakes in their descriptions and they've always corrected them...I didn't even notify them of this one as it's just too silly that I doubt anyone bidding on this photo doesn't know their BlackSox history.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I've notified Hunt's in the past of mistakes in their descriptions and they've always corrected them...I didn't even notify them of this one as it's just too silly that I doubt anyone bidding on this photo doesn't know their BlackSox history.

Dan -
I notified them of their misrepresentation concerning Pete Browning not really being in the 1886 Louisville Composite, see thread:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=116991
- but they have yet to respond to me or change their description.

[RichardSimon]

I did e mail Hunt's about this, I just think that Weaver was totally innocent and have always felt that justice was blind in his case, but they have not changed anything for this lot.

[tbob]

I think whomever wrote that description has no clue whatsoever about Buck Weaver and his involvement or lack thereof in the fix and should be ashamed of him/herself for using the word "deviant." Totally ironic that Eddie Cicotte who received money and publically admitted throwing the games is not described in harsh termns while Weaver is. I suspect that whoever wrote this is confusing Chick Gandil with Weaver. I've read many books about the 1919 Series and biographies on the players indicted and Buck never received a dime, had a wonderful series, but didn't "squeal" on his friends and knew what was going on although he didn't participate in the fix. Alfred Austrian, Charlie Comiskey and the boys made sure that Buck was denied his right to a separate attorney and the chance to offer a separate defense based on his circumstances which were different than the others. Joe Jackson is cut slack because he was "an ignorant farmboy" and illiterate but he accepted money. Weaver didn't take a dime and was persecuted merely because he valued trust and friendship. It was a different time and we can't judge his actions based on 2009. In 1919 gambling and betting on games was widespread. These 8 players were no different than the Cobbs, Speakers, and all the rest of the players who placed bets on games. That doesn't justify their actions but if you research what was going on in that era you will see the utter hypocrisy of it all.
Buck Weaver went to his grave begging to have his name cleared. I only wish now, 90 years later some Commissioner other than Bud Selig who is the worst Commissioner in the history of the game IMO would mete out justice and fairness for Buck and clear his name.

[barrysloate]

Gambling on a game is different than throwing a game, Buck Weaver's presumed innocence aside. I can bet a million dollars on the World Series without affecting the outcome. But if I conspire to play poorly and deliberately lose, that's a whole lot worse.

[tbob]

Barry- I agree but a lot of times the players who were betting on games were also deliberately making sure the games would end up with the team winning they were betting on. Hal Chase was the most notorious but gambling (and) throwing games was rampant in the deadball era.

[barrysloate]

Well certainly that's a lot more sinister than simply betting on who might win.

[slidekellyslide]

You guys are also forgetting that "Swede was a hard guy"...ratting on some of those guys about the fix would not have been healthy.

[bigtrain]

I am no fan of Bud Selig but why no criticism of the tyrannical commissioner who created the injustice in the first place. I have a problem with a commissioner who says I don't care if you played well, were acquitted in Court and took no money, I'm banning you for life anyway. I especially have a problem with the fact that he was a former federal judge to whom, presumably, fundamental farness should mean something.