Ungraded heavyweights?

[Rookiemonster]

So I recently seen a t206 Wagner on instagram that that was ungraded. I don’t know who the owner is or if it was ever graded. But it got me thinking, how many grails are out there that have never been graded. I’m not talking about a undiscovered treasure trove of high grade stars. I’m talking about card that has been pass around ( or in a private collection)in the hobby for years of very high value that is not graded. If you are the owner of one of theses heaven weights
Please share your card and the story of it.


Here is a card from the original post.

[bauce]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

So I recently seen a t206 Wagner on instagram that that was ungraded. I don’t know who the owner is or if it was ever graded. But it got me thinking, how many grails are out there that have never been graded. I’m not talking about a undiscovered treasure trove of high grade stars. I’m talking about card that has been pass around ( or in a private collection)in the hobby for years of very high value.


Here is a card from the original post.

That's a good question. Last month I went to a baseball card show (just because I have not been to one in 12 years or so) and looking for a vintage table/dealer. There was ONE but he had some nice stuff, both pre-and post-war (mostly post-). An older gentleman along with his son came up to the table. He handed the dealer a RAW 51 Bowman Mantle that was carried in his pocket that was slipped between other loose cards (they looked post-war) and was wondering what it was worth. The dealer measured it and looked at it through the loop. There was aging, corners weren't rounded, but not perfect either. Not sure if there was a crease. But the dealer seemed interested and gave the guy his business card.

So there may be gems out there that are not encased but kept deep in a private collection.

The border colors on that Wagner seem "off" to me. I'm no expert, but I have seen my share of T206s up close an in hand in all conditions and that one doesn't look kosher. I may be wrong but my instinct tells me better safe than sorry.

[Rookiemonster]

I can’t say if it’s real or not but Instagram is known for filters that changed to color of photos. I don’t understand how anyone could carry a 51 Mantle around in just there pocket. Probably was creased l.

[rats60]

I have 520 t206s including Demmitt, O'Hara and all 4 Cobbs that are ungraded. I have 239 1933 Goudeys including all 4 Ruths and both Gehrigs that are ungraded. All were purchased long before PSA existed. There really isn't a need to grade them until time to sell them. I would think that there are quite a few high end cards sitting in long time collections ungraded.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by rats60

I have 520 t206s including Demmitt, O'Hara and all 4 Cobbs that are ungraded. I have 239 1933 Goudeys including all 4 Ruths and both Gehrigs that are ungraded. All were purchased long before PSA existed. There really isn't a need to grade them until time to sell them. I would think that there are quite a few high end cards sitting in long time collections ungraded.

+1 Whenever I hear about a new "find", whether it's a couple dozen Red Hindus, five Cobb backs, or something huge like the Black Swamp find, they're always ungraded. The first thing that the AH does is have them graded. I can't imagine how many more finds are sitting around waiting to be found.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Sean

+1 Whenever I hear about a new "find", whether it's a couple dozen Red Hindus, five Cobb backs, or something huge like the Black Swamp find, they're always ungraded. The first thing that the AH does is have them graded. I can't imagine how many more finds are sitting around waiting to be found.

Sean, why waste time with new material when the old posts cannot be improved?

Is a find a find before its found?
I think not, the logic's sound.
In the past, finds were found.
No one knows what's underground.

Future finds are speculation
If unfound, more consternation
If uncovered, jubilation
Risk, reward or humiliation

A searcher's quest may stay behind
without a clue of any kind.
You'll never know, not in your mind,
'cause it must be found to be a find.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by rats60

I have 520 t206s including Demmitt, O'Hara and all 4 Cobbs that are ungraded.

That makes 1040 between us. Mine are mostly lower grade but not beaters.

[Stonepony]

I believe a vast amount of treasure is out there, out of sight of the light of day, Sportscards forums and TPG offices.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Sean, why waste time with new material when the old posts cannot be improved?

Is a find a find before its found?
I think not, the logic's sound.
In the past, finds were found.
No one knows what's underground.

Future finds are speculation
If unfound, more consternation
If uncovered, jubilation
Risk, reward or humiliation

A searcher's quest may stay behind
without a clue of any kind.
You'll never know, not in your mind,
'cause it must be found to be a find.

Frank, is that from Lord of the Rings?

[Exhibitman]

There’s a lot of stuff out there with collectors who started in the 1970s and who are not likely to sell until they die and their estates are liquidated. I look at lots of my stuff and think about slabbing but opt not to. Why bother if I am not going to sell it? It is costly and bulky.

[Leon]

One board member, who is a very good hobby friend, has a T206 Wagner he bought long ago that is still ungraded. It is probably a 5 in condition.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Leon

One board member, who is a very good hobby friend, has a T206 Wagner he bought long ago that is still ungraded. It is probably a 5 in condition.

That would put it in the $2 - 3,000,000 range.

I would get it slabbed just for insurance purposes.

[x2drich2000]

Have either the Goode or Fritsch Wagners ever been graded?

[Bpm0014]

That makes 1040 between us. Mine are mostly lower grade but not beaters.

That makes 1560 between us 3.....

[nat]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

That makes 1040 between us. Mine are mostly lower grade but not beaters.

That makes 1560 between us 3.....

That makes 1563 between us 4.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by nat

That makes 1563 between us 4.

That makes over 2000 for us 5

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Leon

One board member, who is a very good hobby friend, has a T206 Wagner he bought long ago that is still ungraded. It is probably a 5 in condition.

This is what I’m talking about. This is so unbelievable to me. I bout a card graded psa 2 that I would love to pop out but the price difference is So different between grades I don’t want to pop it out.

I also have a lot of ungraded vintage but that’s not really what I’m talking about. If you had a Wagner and it wasn’t obvious that it’s in poor condition, wouldn’t it kill you to know the dirrence in the grade/price?or 52 mantle? Or a sporting new Ruth?

[Bocabirdman]

I used to have 490 but now I only have one. Since it has a little corner wear, I do not mind it "raw".

rube front.jpg

rube back.jpg

[Bkrum]

The vast majority of our complete set collection (topps, bowman, OPC, Goudey, t206-minus Big 3) is ungraded. Put them together in the 80s and 90s with constant upgrading. Dabbled with it many years ago but haven’t submitted anything in over 10 years. Our “ex-mint” sets might not stand up to strict modern PSA guidelines but still some awful nice cards in there. No plan on selling anything so why bother.
I’ve actually started going through some extra stuff lying around and will submit a batch shortly as I wouldn’t mind liquidating some of those

[Tao_Moko]

No Wagner or Plank but I have a handful of very scarce front back combos that are raw. I currently have a few hundred ungraded cards. There is so little consistency in grading that I can only buy off on "A"uthentic and "A"ltered as valid grades. Plus, there is nothing better than a stack of beaters or a binder full of old cards.

[Bpm0014]

Are we sure that the Wagner in the original post is authentic?

[rainier2004]

No Wagners but I do have a raw 1914 CJ Matty...it looks better out of a slab and free to breathe.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Are we sure that the Wagner in the original post is authentic?

My first opinion of the card was that it had to be fake because it wasn’t graded. Kinda why I created this tread. I can’t believe someone would own this card raw.but as Leon pointed out it is very possible to have a Wagner and it’s raw.

[irv]

Likely not heavy weights, other than the Mantle, maybe, but a majority of my cards are not graded.
If I didn't live in Canada, that may be a different story, but since I do, with the exchange rate, shipping, duty, and the worry of them being lost/stolen, I really don't see me getting them graded anytime soon.

Like I have mentioned before, if I take a vacation sometime south where either SGC or PSA reside, then I may take these 3, and possibly some other high numbered cards with me at that time as long as I know ahead of time I can get them back before I come home?

I also believe many cards and other memorabilia are still out there, unknown to the hobby, undiscovered that someday will appear. I think of how many discoveries we hear about just on this site alone, so thinking all the old/rare cards are known about, is simply just blind thinking.

Personally, I like seeing/reading about them, even if they have affected the hobby numbers negatively as far as rarity/value goes.

Not a Heavy Weight but it's one of Baseball's most popular player

[Republicaninmass]

Apparently people have vastly different views of "heavy weights"

[brianp-beme]

Due to the attached 3/4" thick wood plaque, I believe this more than qualifies as a 'heavyweight' card.

Brian

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Due to the attached 3/4" thick wood plaque, I believe this more than qualifies as a 'heavyweight' card.

Brian

At a minimum, it would qualify as 'slabbed'

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Apparently people have vastly different views of "heavy weights"

Yes that is correct -

With the advent of eBay and having been "burned" several times, I now find that I don't "trust" any card of any higher value that is not currently slabbed by one of the top 3 TPGs.

Not sure where that threshold is exactly but I would say any card worth more than a couple hundred dollars if I am buying online and the card is advertised as NRMT.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Due to the attached 3/4" thick wood plaque, I believe this more than qualifies as a 'heavyweight' card.

Brian

Looks like mans first attempt at slabbing. Lol where did you get this from? Judging by the etchings on the back it’s graded a 3.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Looks like mans first attempt at slabbing. Lol where did you get this from? Judging by the etchings on the back it’s graded a 3.

You can tell it is one of the earlier incarnations of these primitive slabs in that the grade is carved on the lower back. Later wooden slab versions adopted the more familiar top front grade demarcation, and utilized Roman numerals.

Brian (picked up during ebay's iron age)