Looking for n300 or n162 ad pieces, oddities, etc...

[shammus]

Looking for any errors or oddities from the n300 or n162 sets. These could be ad pieces cut off of posters, printing goofs, blank backed cards (maybe not for the n300s though), etc....

Depending what is out there, I'd consider any of the above for the n28/n29 sets as well.

Thanks in advance,
Brian

[barrysloate]

Hi Brian- I don't believe advertising posters for N162 or N300 exist. The regular issue cards are all that is out there.

Edited to add you can find N162 cut out of the Champions album, so I stand somewhat corrected.

[shammus]

Hi Barry,

Nice hearing from you. I think a cutout is about all I can realistically expect from the n162 set. Although I do know of an n162 or two that are missing color passes out there in people's collections.

As for the Mayos, I've never really seen any but thought maybe someone else had....

I did however pick up a blank backed ad piece from the n28 set last night...

[barrysloate]

A blank backed N28 can either be cut from an album, or from an advertising poster. There's probably a way to tell, based on the thickness or texture of the paper, but I'm not sure.

[GasHouseGang]

Here's a copy of the N28 poster. Maybe this will help you tell if a blank backed N28 is from a book or the poster.

Originally Posted by shammus

Hi Barry,

Nice hearing from you. I think a cutout is about all I can realistically expect from the n162 set. Although I do know of an n162 or two that are missing color passes out there in people's collections.

As for the Mayos, I've never really seen any but thought maybe someone else had....

I did however pick up a blank backed ad piece from the n28 set last night...

Biting my tongue...

Edit: Okay, fantasy piece? Opinions? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123

[1880nonsports]

my interest is piqued! Sorry to squeeze in your bst page but just curious about the above? I have some ginter pieces amongst my stuff and would love to hear about it. No interest in jumping into anyone's transaction - only seeking information....

btw - that's some banner! Not my favorite as it lacks the sophistication of other examples of the genre but it's quite important and beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...........

[Tbags80]

Hello everyone new to this forum but I thought I might chime in since there is interest in my card. From what Heritage auctions and I came up with is that it is dated the same as the Goodwin champions N162. It is the same card stock but is hand cut from an advertising banner. I had my hands on the exact same Cap Anson and the back carried the same advertisement just a different section. Both were sold to me as a lot. Obviously cut from the same banner. The Cap sold immediately for what I paid for the pair to a private collector and Heritage put a pleasing estimated value on it after the fact. So a little sellers remorse as that went. The plan was to keep them together and auction in Chicago later this year but times got hard and the wife even harder and since the Anson did well I decided on a quick turn around on EBay with the "King". I have had some nice offers and input and I thank everyone for there interest I am confident this historic piece o baseball history will go to a good home. By the way so glad to be a voice in this forum now and look forward to hearing some great collecting stories.

Originally Posted by Tbags80

Hello everyone new to this forum but I thought I might chime in since there is interest in my card. From what Heritage auctions and I came up with is that it is dated the same as the Goodwin champions N162. It is the same card stock but is hand cut from an advertising banner. I had my hands on the exact same Cap Anson and the back carried the same advertisement just a different section. Both were sold to me as a lot. Obviously cut from the same banner. The Cap sold immediately for what I paid for the pair to a private collector and Heritage put a pleasing estimated value on it after the fact. So a little sellers remorse as that went. The plan was to keep them together and auction in Chicago later this year but times got hard and the wife even harder and since the Anson did well I decided on a quick turn around on EBay with the "King". I have had some nice offers and input and I thank everyone for there interest I am confident this historic piece o baseball history will go to a good home. By the way so glad to be a voice in this forum now and look forward to hearing some great collecting stories.

Welcome. So disappointed that this card is already out of my range. I wish you well...you are going to love this forum!

[wonkaticket]

I'm now the owner of the above N28 banner it was from the world famous Sloate collection.

Here's a better pic.



N28s cut from the banner will be much thinner than those cut from the N28 albums if that helps.

Good luck in your search.

Cheers,

John

[barrysloate]

If in fact that N162 Kelly was cut from a poster, and not simply from a Champions album (I don't have one to see what is on the other side of the Kelly), then it would be new to the hobby. No intact N162 poster is known to me, however I have imagined that one could have existed at one time. Did you check an album to make absolutely certain the Kelly wasn't cut from it? I've never seen a poster where the advertising was on the back, so it's kind of odd. Not impossible, just unusual.

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If in fact that N162 Kelly was cut from a poster, and not simply from a Champions album (I don't have one to see what is on the other side of the Kelly), then it would be new to the hobby. No intact N162 poster is known to me, however I have imagined that one could have existed at one time. Did you check an album to make absolutely certain the Kelly wasn't cut from it? I've never seen a poster where the advertising was on the back, so it's kind of odd. Not impossible, just unusual.

The seller of the N162 Kelly cut-out indicates in his listing that the card stock is thick and comparable to that of the actual cards. I don't know if that helps at all, but that's what he indicated.

[barrysloate]

Cards cut from posters tend to be a little thinner than regular issue cards. Not exactly sure what he has.

[1880nonsports]

cut from the last page of the Goodwin Champions album.......... It is neither fantasy nor reproduction. Shamus are you refering to an N28 or some other N28 advertising piece? Top shelf banner Mr Wonka!

[JeremyW]

I believe the Kelly card is cut from the album. The back printing matches the print that is used in the album.

[barrysloate]

Since it has been confirmed the Kelly was cut from an album, its value is marginal.

There's a guy on ebay selling similar looking cards with blank backs and saying they are some sort of parallel set to the N162's that could only be redeemed through the mail. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing or have knowledge that these cards are legitimate and actually exist. Here's his response to my inquiry.

"ln 1888 Goodwin printed two sets of Champion Cigarette Cards, they consisted of 50 cards representing baseball, pedestrian, jockey, lawn tennis, etc. You could find them in Gypsy Queen & Old Judge tobacco pouches, these had Gypsy Queen & Old Judge writing on the base of the card & writing on the back. The other set (The one that l am selling) has the same picture on the front but no writing on the base or back. To purchase one of these you needed a coupon & then you could exchange it for a card that came from a Sports Card Album. The card l am selling is 125 years old, original, & 100% genuine. l am even prepared to give an undertaking that if the winning bidder can prove it is not 100% authentic, they can keep the card & get a full refund. But this wont happen because as mentioned this cigarette card is 100% authentic"

[barrysloate]

I never heard of the coupon or redemption this guy is talking about. It would be nice to see some documentation.

Regarding the authenticity of the cards cut out of albums, they are certainly authentic in the sense they were printed and issued in 1888. But they are not cards, they are not rare, and they should not sell for very much. They are cutouts from a book. Worth something, but they are not the holy grail.

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I never heard of the coupon or redemption this guy is talking about. It would be nice to see some documentation.

Regarding the authenticity of the cards cut out of albums, they are certainly authentic in the sense they were printed and issued in 1888. But they are not cards, they are not rare, and they should not sell for very much. They are cutouts from a book. Worth something, but they are not the holy grail.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling the guy is just selling the cut-outs from the Goodwin album you're referring to and then adding a back story about them being redemption pieces in order to try and make them seem more unique and drive up prices.

[HRBAKER]

Dan,

Have you asked him how he knows about this "parallel" redemption card? Maybe he can steer us to some documentation. Doubtful.

Jeff

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Dan,

Have you asked him how he knows about this "parallel" redemption card? Maybe he can steer us to some documentation. Doubtful.

Jeff

Jeff,
I will ask, but I suspect they are just cut-out cards from the Goodwin Champions album. I think what the seller may have been indicating is that the Goodwin Champions album itself, may have been redeemed by coupon. That seems reasonable and to make more sense. The thing that was throwing me off was that some of the cards have advertising while others don't. In looking back at the seller's previously sold items I noticed that he has what looks to be a complete set, so my guess is that it just depends on the layout of the advertising behind each individual cut-out card.

Here's a link the King Kelly (with advertising on back) that he sold. Its the same card that is pictured earlier in this thread and is currently listed on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1888-Good...p2047675.l2557

Here's a link to the Glasscock (with advertising) previously sold by the same seller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1888-Goodwin...p2047675.l2557

Here's a link to a lot of 1888 Goodwin cut-outs with blank backs (but described as being from the same album)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1888-Good...p2047675.l2557

Here's a link to a closed auction for all the pages of the 1888 Goodwin Champions album, including the advertising on the back.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...ntoryid=108957

[shammus]

Sorry I wasn't aware this thread got so much attention. I'll try to reply to a few of the questions asked of me.

Shown below are the two n28 and n162 ad pieces I own, Ward and Brouthers. The n28 is off of the n28 Champion's poster that Wonka and others posted. You can tell by the colors that are showing on the borders of the Ward that it matches up perfectly with the Ward shown on the poster. It's also a thinner stock overall like the others were saying.

The Kelly that Dan posted about on the first page is from an A36 Goodwin Album released around 1888, about the same time as the n162 set. You can see a good shot of this album below. There is also an image below showing what the back of the panel with Kelly, Glasscock, Dunlap and Keefe looks like. As you'll see, the back of the Kelly that is on Ebay now, matches up perfectly with what is shown in this image.

The Brouthers shown below is cut from a different page in this same A36 Album. However that particular page is blank backed, as is the Brouthers shown below. The page with the Kelly has the large advertisement for Old Judge as you can see.

Dan, not sure when you spoke to the guy on Ebay about his cards, but I've shown him scans of the ones I have and have shown him the entire pieces that they were cut off of. I've had this conversation with him in the past week or so. I've not come up with any info supporting a theory that these were redemption cards. But I've told him that the cards resembling n162s were cards cut of the A36 Champions album, so hopefully my explanation made sense. I feel that given the backs matching up perfectly on the Kelly, Glasscock, etc... that particular mystery is solved.

I agree with Barry's point about the cards only having marginal value. These, while likely not easy to find, are likely to not carry the value anywhere near the value of the actual cards. They are authentic, and were released at the same time the cards were issued however. The Kelly on Ebay surprises me a bit since it's already up to $500...heh

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[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Tbags80

Hello everyone new to this forum but I thought I might chime in since there is interest in my card. From what Heritage auctions and I came up with is that it is dated the same as the Goodwin champions N162. It is the same card stock but is hand cut from an advertising banner. I had my hands on the exact same Cap Anson and the back carried the same advertisement just a different section. Both were sold to me as a lot. Obviously cut from the same banner. The Cap sold immediately for what I paid for the pair to a private collector and Heritage put a pleasing estimated value on it after the fact. So a little sellers remorse as that went. The plan was to keep them together and auction in Chicago later this year but times got hard and the wife even harder and since the Anson did well I decided on a quick turn around on EBay with the "King". I have had some nice offers and input and I thank everyone for there interest I am confident this historic piece o baseball history will go to a good home. By the way so glad to be a voice in this forum now and look forward to hearing some great collecting stories.

Heritage couldn't figure out these were from the album?

Who did you deal with at Heritage that told you that these came from a banner not the album? Can you please share his or her name?

Also what kind of "pleasing estimated value" did they tell you?

[barrysloate]

Heritage is going to have to amend the text to reflect what these really are. Once they do that, bidders can determine their value.

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Heritage couldn't figure out these were from the album?

Who did you deal with at Heritage that told you that these came from a banner not the album? Can you please share his or her name?

Also what kind of "pleasing estimated value" did they tell you?

Another interesting note. I asked the seller what he knew about the King Kelly cut-out card he was selling and how he came to own it. This was his response.

"I sell some cards through one of the last existing card shops in my area and there is a elderly gentleman that brings some vintage in from time to time. We became friendly and he showed me some of his private collection with time I was able to purchase my first card a Ruth strip in amazing condition but it came with a catch he would only sell me that card if I bought the Cobb from the same series in the same condition. From then on he let me pay with payments and I have gotten some amazing pieces like a small black and white hand tinted Ruth/ Gehrig tobacco that only one other has ever been seen at auction. Anyways these two he had (Anson/King) and I fell I love with them it took me 5 months to pay him for these so yes I am very surprised to hear that a similar card went for so little."

Meanwhile, here's the link to the completed ebay item for the card that he won last month.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1888-Goodwin...item19dd54dce6

[barrysloate]

Sounds like both the elderly gentleman and the card shop owner knew little to nothing about the set.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Maybe Leon would like to move this thread to the main board. Lots of very good information here but doesn't seem like any buying or selling is going on..........

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Sounds like both the elderly gentleman and the card shop owner knew little to nothing about the set.

There is no elderly gentleman (and probably no card shop)...he bought the card off ebay from some guy in Australia

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

There is no elderly gentleman (and probably no card shop)...he bought the card off ebay from some guy in Australia

I was thinking that too, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt....

[1880nonsports]

in austrailia at an interesting time in card production history. My N162 album came to me by way of austrailia and I bought a few "footballers" and other goodwin related items that were available during that time period....

[wonkaticket]

What's the world coming too when you can’t take the word of guy named "Tbags” when it comes to provenance on something of value?

I guess the “Old Man” was in Australia yet it took 5 mos. to pay him on the eBay sale…must have sent the payment by tramp steamer.