1952 Mantle and 1986 Jordan scam

[ezez420]

I hope none of you bought this fraudulent Mantle or Jordan that seller does not own. If so get your money back. People should start seeing the patterns of these frauds.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...UAAOSwCypWnQkc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORD...4AAOSwqYBWmlSj

[Peter_Spaeth]

And a Rolex.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ezez420

I hope none of you bought this fraudulent Mantle or Jordan that seller does not own. If so get your money back. People should start seeing the patterns of these frauds.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...UAAOSwCypWnQkc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORD...4AAOSwqYBWmlSj

They seem to be more prevalent all the time. Hopefully the scammers will not win the game. Shining spotlights on them is good.....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Until I see half grades in that scam with the Jordan or 1952 Mantle than ill start to worry.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is a different scam, not a fake card but one where the seller just steals scans and doesn't own the item.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is a different scam, not a fake card but one where the seller just steals scans and doesn't own the item.

How does the scammer win ? Doesn't the buyer just use buyer protection and get money refunded?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

How does the scammer win ? Doesn't the buyer just use buyer protection and get money refunded?

right the money is refunded but how does ebay get it from the seller when the seller already has the cash from the transaction and just makes another ebay id..or buys an id that allows him to get cash quicker than it takes for the refund period to take place

[Peter_Spaeth]

A bit skeptical of this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-BOWMAN-.../272112000925?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A bit skeptical of this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-BOWMAN-.../272112000925?

Description says "mint condition." Many sellers claim their cards are under-graded, but this is the first time I've heard an assertion of being 5 points under-graded.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A bit skeptical of this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-BOWMAN-.../272112000925?

Me too, no feedback as a seller and blocked feedback on 4 items as a buyer. Smells worse that a frat bathroom on saturday morning.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by ezez420

People should start seeing the patterns of these frauds.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...UAAOSwCypWnQkc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORD...4AAOSwqYBWmlSj

May I ask, I'm not doubting what you're saying and glad these alerts are posted for all to see/be aware of - but how can you tell the seller doesn't actually own the card(s)? Listing (before taken down) looked legit enough on the surface, scans looked like any others, seller with 210 feedback and yes, granted - one bad one recently. 14 day return policy, etc. Description and grammar aren't the best, but nothing all that unusual either. I guess the only thing that pressed a red flag with me is pattern of sell/buy not related to high-end cards like these.

If I'm alone on this one, then my bad .. disregard. I'd love to be able to start seeing patterns of these frauds, but these would not have been obvious to me.

[ezez420]

Phone number listed in his auction (in rolex auction at least). Ends early because he wants someone to buy offline. Scans are usually taken off the internet or in can see fake card in different holder. These can either be hijacked accounts, person who sends you empty envelope if you purchase, etc. typically also you can pay these characters via paypal and they say there is a 30 day hold on funds. Few red flags out there. Be cautious.


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[Buythatcard]

I think that its great that people come on this board to point out a scam. But I have a problem with just someone coming on here and saying its a scam but don't show us the proof.

Not all of us see the obvious that others might see.

For example, why do you say that this person does not own the card? A simple link to the original card might make things much clearer.

I am not doubting that this is a scam but showing the proof also makes it easier for the rest of us to understand.

[ezez420]

I think you can do your own homework on that front. Frankly people like me don't have to do it for you. If you would like to compensate people for that I am sure they will. Or you can buy the card and share your experience.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...EAAOSwo3pWexKb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...0AAOSwCypWoKpJ (same guy with 51 Mantle)

OK?

[ezez420]

More people need to contribute this info also and not just leach. Honestly if you buy high dollar cards and cant figure out the patterns of fakes in this day and age then this isnt the hobby for you. You will lose money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's the real 51.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...kAAOSw5dNWjq94

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...EAAOSwo3pWexKb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...0AAOSwCypWoKpJ (same guy with 51 Mantle)

OK?

LMAO....anyone who doesn't know should just click on these and the scam is quite easy to see.

[Buythatcard]

Peter, thanks for sharing the link. That's all I was asking for.

Ed, if you are going to take the time out to expose scams, then lay out the evidence. Your response is not what people come here to see.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It is pretty obvious though when someone with 4 feedback out of the blue lists a 51B and 52T Mantle, with weird descriptions.

[ezez420]

Howard, honestly if you or others cant figure it out I cant help. Not to sound rude but dont respond and feel free to bid. You dont have to believe me. But many people on and off here do. You could have done exactly what Peter did but he was nice enough to post. Again not to sound rude but we cant do all of the homework.

[Buythatcard]

I agree that low feedback might be an obvious sign but not always. There is nothing that says a new seller can't come along to sell their most prized possessions. Not everyone is a regular card seller.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Howard, honestly if you or others cant figure it out I cant help. Not to sound rude but dont respond and feel free to bid. You dont have to believe me. But many people on and off here do. You could have done exactly what Peter did but he was nice enough to post. Again not to sound rude but we cant do all of the homework.

and besides if you do all of the homework then we have nothing to cackle about.


and I readily admit I don't always see the issues/fraud at first...

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Leon

LMAO....anyone who doesn't know should just click on these and the scam is quite easy to see.

Yes, certainly - these examples Peter sent are obvious .. and you're talking about a new eBay member with a 4 feedback who was already blocked a number of times. The initial post though didn't show a dupe listing or anything else on the surface that would have been apparent (to me at least) that they were fake/fraud. Then again, I wasn't searching for '52 Mantles or Rookie Jordan's either. If I were and saw dupe listings/different sellers - then obviously that's a different story.

I appreciate your initial reply (Ed) on why you suspected fake/fraud. I don't think anyone is leaching, most just want to understand what triggered your post .. perhaps help in spotting/reporting themselves.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Howard, honestly if you or others cant figure it out I cant help. Not to sound rude but dont respond and feel free to bid. You dont have to believe me. But many people on and off here do. You could have done exactly what Peter did but he was nice enough to post. Again not to sound rude but we cant do all of the homework.

I don't think this is an issue of "can't figure it out" or belief, what's not to believe? I believe you - just say why you suspect it's fraud/fake. What's so hard about that? It's one link or a sentence instead of several reply posts telling people you don't have time and go bid/figure it out for yourself. Why is it you don't have time for a sentence on why and all the time in the world to reply over and over again w/patronizing comments.

Hell, even Dan McKee will tell you why it's fraud/scam when he alerts.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

....

Hell, even Dan McKee will tell you why it's fraud/scam when he alerts.

ouch

[ezez420]

Read your pm and you will know why


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[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Read your pm and you will know why


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I did, replied and thanks. Honestly I'm on your side and want to help/learn - it's not an issue of belief .. I think if you can briefly note why in your initial threads, whereas it wouldn't compromise integrity of message/objective - I think that would go a long way to helping me/some of us understand and perhaps help you in that objective.

Hope that makes sense.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

I did, replied and thanks. Honestly I'm on your side and want to help/learn - it's not an issue of belief .. I think if you can briefly note why in your initial threads, whereas it wouldn't compromise integrity of message/objective - I think that would go a long way to helping me/some of us understand and perhaps help you in that objective.

Hope that makes sense.

Being fairly new here, I would also like to know.

[Leon]

There are certain things which sharing publicly might help scammers more than the hobby. So, it's not always black and white in making information available. But I do agree that showing enough to educate but not compromise, is a good approach. And if it's something that could help the scammers, maybe we say we don't want to say because it might help the scammers.

Originally Posted by irv

Being fairly new here, I would also like to know.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are certain things which sharing publicly might help scammers more than the hobby. So, it's not always black and white in making information available. But I do agree that showing enough to educate but not compromise, is a good approach. And if it's something that could help the scammers, maybe we say we don't want to say because it might help the scammers.

Good point! I never thought of that.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I agree that low feedback might be an obvious sign but not always. There is nothing that says a new seller can't come along to sell their most prized possessions. Not everyone is a regular card seller.

that new seller would be wise to consign with pwcc or probstein if wanting to sell it on ebay

yeah once in awhile you may have a legit new seller...always an exception then the rule...but its those exceptions that make people bid 100 dollars on beat up mantles that are Reprints i guess..hoping its the pin in the haystack..

[ezez420]

Leon couldn't have said it better.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Leon couldn't have said it better.

This debate has been had many times and a lot of collectors don't realize that some things concerning alterations are better left publicly undisclosed. I will never forget the fake Old Put and E94 Overprint (in an SGC holder no less) being sold on our BST.....at least until I saw them ..... I still have that fake E94. Those cards were pretty good and are good examples of what a good fake would look like. And the tells on one of them are not some I want to denote publicly.

[iwantitiwinit]

The fact the seller has only 4 unrelated sales is all I need to know. Anyone in possession of a 52 mantle that has been GRADED knows the card market or should know the card market. If they know the card market then they know about selling on eBay and how shaky 4 feedbacks looks. On the off chance they are ignorant of the appearance I still would chose not to deal with them because the risk far far outstrips reward. Bottom line if u own a GRADED 52 mantle u know the game.

[cammb]

If you don't want us to leech, don't offer the blood.