Question about hand-cut cards and/or cut outs

Quick question. Would it be considered sacreligion to re-cut or clean up a previously butchered hand-cut job on an advertising cut-out? There's a cut-out advertisement card that I'm bidding on and I'm just wondering if there is a hard rule on this sort of thing?

[Stonepony]

My opinion ( and i may be in the minority) is that cards, inserts,ads etc that are MEANT to be handcut should not have to be eternally preserved in a condition that resulted from a careless collector or exhuberant child. These are meant to be cut out, and to propose that the initial cut- regardless of the result, has to be the final cut- seems a bit silly to me. As long as there is no deception- make it look good

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

My opinion ( and i may be in the minority) is that cards, inserts,ads etc that are MEANT to be handcut should not have to be eternally preserved in a condition that resulted from a careless collector or exhuberant child. These are meant to be cut out, and to propose that the initial cut- regardless of the result, has to be the final cut- seems a bit silly to me. As long as there is no deception- make it look good

What he said.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What he said.

Me three....and my (still) biggest peeve of grading strips is the numerical grades with no caveat that they are handcut.

[dabigyankeeman]

I see nothing wrong with re-cutting to make it look better.

[deadballfreaK]

I have cleaned up a few W cards that looked awful. They are too short or narrow now to get anything but an"A", but who cares? They look more pleasing to me and I'm not looking to sell them.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Agree. They should not receive a numerical grade anyway.

[Stonepony]

Not wanting to stir things up, but why the opposition to grading handcut cards? Cards graded "A" can range in visual appeal from trash to pristine. Photos/scans don't always reveal to a buyer all that's there. A grade helps I think. Should we not grade Casey Stengle All Stars, Mecca Double Folders or any other issue that the distributor meant to be manipulated? Just want to here thoughts cause some seem rather passionate in their opposition to grading hand cuts

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Not wanting to stir things up, but why the opposition to grading handcut cards? Cards graded "A" can range in visual appeal from trash to pristine. Photos/scans don't always reveal to a buyer all that's there. A grade helps I think. Should we not grade Casey Stengle All Stars, Mecca Double Folders or any other issue that the distributor meant to be manipulated? Just want to here thoughts cause some seem rather passionate in their opposition to grading hand cuts

I don't have an opposition to grading hand cut cards I just want the transparency of what they really are on the label. They are handcut. To not put that on the flips puts these hand cut cards in the same class as manufacturer cut cards, which is not correct. People should know that an SGC96 W514 of Joe Jackson might have been on a full strip in 2012 and then cut to be what it is in the holder, last year, not in 1920-21.

[Stonepony]

Agree! Thanks

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

My opinion ( and i may be in the minority) is that cards, inserts,ads etc that are MEANT to be handcut should not have to be eternally preserved in a condition that resulted from a careless collector or exhuberant child. These are meant to be cut out, and to propose that the initial cut- regardless of the result, has to be the final cut- seems a bit silly to me. As long as there is no deception- make it look good

I have to agree with Dave. I prefer cards in their original form but it wouldn't stop me from buying a W514 strip that was recut.

Z Wheat

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't have an opposition to grading hand cut cards I just want the transparency of what they really are on the label. They are handcut. To not put that on the flips puts these hand cut cards in the same class as manufacturer cut cards, which is not correct. People should know that an SGC96 W514 of Joe Jackson might have been on a full strip in 2012 and then cut to be what it is in the holder, last year, not in 1920-21.

Leon,

What is the solution? Would adding a "Handcut" designation on the label work? I don't have an issue either way but was curious on your view on how we solve the issue.

Z Wheat

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Leon,

What is the solution? Would adding a "Handcut" designation on the label work? I don't have an issue either way but was curious on your view on how we solve the issue.

Z Wheat

My Ruth strip card has the Authentic designation on the label. I am fine with that.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Leon,

What is the solution? Would adding a "Handcut" designation on the label work? I don't have an issue either way but was curious on your view on how we solve the issue.

Z Wheat

Yes. PSA does it already on some/most strips. That is all I want. The transparency so a newer collector doesn't find out the hard way that his hundred year old strip card was hand cut...... just the other day (but the timing is beside the point on this issue).

And I am in a minority, though some others feel this way too, but I think the PSA 8 Wagner should have "handcut" on the flip also. However, to be very honest, if I owned it today I wouldn't be hurrying to ask PSA to do it.

Originally Posted by Leon

Yes. PSA does it already on some/most strips. That is all I want. The transparency so a newer collector doesn't find out the hard way that his hundred year old strip card was hand cut...... just the other day (but the timing is beside the point on this issue).

And I am in a minority, though some others feel this way too, but I think the PSA 8 Wagner should have "handcut" on the flip also. However, to be very honest, if I owned it today I wouldn't be hurrying to ask PSA to do it.

Totally agree with you. It's a shame that the most iconic card in the hobby has been slabbed NM/MT by the leading TPG company in the hobby, when it is fairly evident and a general consensus that the card has been trimmed and honestly should not be worthy of a numeric grade based on PSA's own standards. I guess I should clarify with you Leon, do you believe the card should retain the numeric grade of 8 with the word "trimmed' on the flip or do you believe it should be labeled Authentic? I believe the latter is more appropriate for the record.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Totally agree with you. It's a shame that the most iconic card in the hobby has been slabbed NM/MT by the leading TPG company in the hobby, when it is fairly evident and a general consensus that the card has been trimmed and honestly should not be worthy of a numeric grade based on PSA's own standards. I guess I should clarify with you Leon, do you believe the card should retain the numeric grade of 8 with the word "trimmed' on the flip or do you believe it should be labeled Authentic? I believe the latter is more appropriate for the record.

I know this is not a common sentiment but if I owned PSA I would make this card an exception, as it is so iconic, and go with both the numerical grade as well as the caveat. If it's my company I make the rules. Again, just my personal opinion and I know most will probably disagree. And I wouldn't put trimmed on it I would put "hand cut" as it sounds better.

Originally Posted by Leon

I know this is not a common sentiment but if I owned PSA I would make this card an exception, as it is so iconic, and go with both the numerical grade as well as the caveat. If it's my company I make the rules. Again, just my personal opinion and I know most will probably disagree. And I wouldn't put trimmed on it I would put "hand cut" as it sounds better.

That is one giant sized loophole, but hey you're the boss in this hypothetical! Not sure how you could do that and not make the same concession for other cards that have been "hand-cut" aka trimmed, which is probably why PSA chooses to deny it and leave it be rather than address it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

That is one giant sized loophole, but hey you're the boss in this hypothetical! Not sure how you could do that and not make the same concession for other "hand cut" cards, which is probably why PSA chooses to deny it and leave it be rather than address it.

If I owned the company and did that, then anyone else wanting that concession I would tell to bring me a card that is of that stature and we can talk.

Originally Posted by Leon

If I owned the company and did that, then anyone else wanting that concession I would tell to bring me a card that is of that stature and we can talk.

and end that sentence with, "now get the hell out of my office!"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Leon

I know this is not a common sentiment but if I owned PSA I would make this card an exception, as it is so iconic, and go with both the numerical grade as well as the caveat. If it's my company I make the rules. Again, just my personal opinion and I know most will probably disagree. And I wouldn't put trimmed on it I would put "hand cut" as it sounds better.

I wish PSA would distinguish between trimmed and hand cut. I own several scrap T206 which were hand cut. They were not trimmed to improve their appearance. They still get a grade of Authentic, of course, but they should get a separate designation other than trimmed.

[steve B]

To me it depends on the card.

A very uncommon card that's handcut should probably be left as-is, especially if the cut is sloppy and shows part of the rest of the package or a neighboring card. The same goes for cards with tabs. A zeenut with the tab roughly torn off but showing the line and some space below it would be more interesting left alone.

Older cards that aren't hard to find - Yeah, if it's really a mess some tidying might be ok. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't have a problem with a bit of recutting. Like If a common strip card had a crooked or ragged edge so a bit of it stuck out oddly, sure, trim the excess back to the border.

Massive recutting to give four straight edges and sharp corners would -To me - be less attractive. The original state of preservation or decay or damage has been hidden. Not much better than trimming a factory cut card. Not that I'd pass it up for the right price, just that I'd be thinking more the "A" price than the "92" price.

Modern stuff I don't have much problem with recutting. If the Hostess card was hacked badly and part of another card shows, and all the borders are there, trim away. There are enough full panels and even complete boxes it doesn't really matter.
Hacking down a complete box or panel for singles or cutting the extra off one issued as a single is another story....

Steve B

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't have an opposition to grading hand cut cards I just want the transparency of what they really are on the label. They are handcut. To not put that on the flips puts these hand cut cards in the same class as manufacturer cut cards, which is not correct. People should know that an SGC96 W514 of Joe Jackson might have been on a full strip in 2012 and then cut to be what it is in the holder, last year, not in 1920-21.

I'm not sure if this has been discussed but.... What if a (modern) card came from an uncut sheet? Does it make a difference whether or not any cards were factory cut? (Ex. 1958 Topps vs. 1985 Topps Mini).

Someone just asked why PSA would grade these and I'm not sure of the answer.