What if...T206's didn't exist?!

[ullmandds]

I realize it's hard to fathom...a world without T206...what an empty...meaningless world it would be?! But please try!

All you T206 worshippers out there...if t206 didn't exist...would you still collect vintage bb cards...and if so...what would you collect and why?!

[Sean]

I would find another pre-WW1 set, probably Cracker Jack. I collect this era because it's my favorite era in baseball prior to the mid-60s, when I started watching the game. My only regret is that Babe Ruth is not featured among the tobacco card sets.

[CW]

Oh great... yet another freakin' T206 thread!!

[atx840]

I really doubt I would. Dads 52s didn't really get my attention, and I wasn't into the shiny stuff. Vintage was no where on my radar until I first read about the PSA 8 T206 Wagner.

I think the allure and story of "the ambassador" has a profoundly positive affect on the vintage card hobby as a whole.

Without that card, I'd think things would be very different.

[AMBST95]

I'd probably not be collecting vintage if that were the case. I am working on 3 vintage sets right now, but the T206s were my gateway drug. Without them, I never learn of Net54 or the other card types.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I realize it's hard to fathom...a world without T206...what an empty...meaningless world it would be?! But please try!

All you T206 worshippers out there...if t206 didn't exist...would you still collect vintage bb cards...and if so...what would you collect and why?!

Peter, going back to 1909, if the T206 set hadn't been created, then when ATC created their first set (I suppose, T205?), it would be huge, have even more HOF'ers, and would be even better than the T206 set.

So today you would be whining even more

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Sean

I would find another pre-WW1 set, probably Cracker Jack.

Welcome to the darkside...

[cfc1909]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I realize it's hard to fathom...a world without T206...what an empty...meaningless world it would be?! But please try!

All you T206 worshippers out there...if t206 didn't exist...would you still collect vintage bb cards...and if so...what would you collect and why?!

54 would have a lot less posts and you would have less coin in your pocket because there would be no Mordecai brown red Hindu.

[steve B]

Yes, I'd still collect.

That's assuming the hobby was around in anything resembling the same form it takes now.

Wether we like it or not, T206 and the Wagner in particular are a big part of what made the hobby as big as it is.

I am or have been involved in hobbies that don't have something like that, and some that do.
16mm films are nearly all rare, a common one might have 50+ copies that exist and even ones where the film is popular and maybe 3-4 copies exist only get up to maybe $10,000. (I've heard of one at that level, and a few that are close)
I used to collect telephone/telegraph insulators - A handful go for $20K + but that's pretty recent when I was into looking for them at flea markets a really amazing one might be a couple hundred.


So without the Wagner and the combination of great player/great story/rare but not so rare that nobody ever imagines finding one in an old collection the hobby might be little known like the other two I mentioned. And the stuff at the high end would only be 10-20 thousand. And I'd be collecting pretty much everything since I'd be able to aford it (Like early 80's pricing today)

Steve B

[cfc1909]

its not all about 206

[cfc1909]

but they are the coolest

[Al C.risafulli]

I realize it's hard to fathom...a world without T206...what an empty...meaningless world it would be?!

Easy.

Instead of endless T206 threads, Net54 would be overrun with threads discussing the nuances of the card issue that would take it's place as the most beautiful, intriguing, and significant of its era. A set loaded with Hall of Famers, colorful artwork, detailed illustrations, back varieties, condition rarities, and print variations.

I'm referring, of course, to 1943 MP & Co.

Sometimes, T206 fans sit back and ask "How could anyone have POSSIBLY produced a set of cards like this?" and "What was going through the artist's mind when he produced this image?" Surely, people ask the exact same questions when discussing the MP & Co cards.

And, like the T206, MP & Co has its share of mysteries. For example, after putting out the set in 1943, why on earth would they have put it out AGAIN six years later, using different player names with the same artwork? Were the artists trying to improve on perfection? Were they trying to point out to young collectors that Larry Doby and Johnny Vandermeer looked so much alike that you couldn't really tell the difference between the two?

And who, exactly, is the player #30 off in the distance in the background of the Mel Ott card?



I realize it's not a very detailed image, but if you look at the earlobe, and the chin, I'd say that's a spitting image of an old Cap Anson out there, patrolling center field. What was Anson doing at the Polo Grounds in 1943, 21 years after his death? It's the kind of mystery that the hobby has never adequately addressed, if you ask me.

These are the kinds of discussions we'd be having here on Net54 if T206 had never existed.

Al

[ullmandds]

Nice cards Jim...Al...you are a visionary...I think you are correct...it would def be the m & p's...and off in the distance...you know who that is...it's Shoeless JJ of course!!!!!

[z28jd]

After doing some research Al, I think I know who it is. The Giants didn't have anyone who wore #30 during that time period and I noticed the uniform was different. The socks look more like what the Pirates wore during that era, which would make that Rip Sewell in the background,

Now since that is a 1943 set, the pic was probably taken near the end of the 1942 season when the two teams met in September in NY. Sewell lost 5-0 that day. Ott went 1-for-2, with two walks.

[jhs5120]

Judging by the size of that ass, I'd say it's Herzog.

[teetwoohsix]

.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by z28jd

After doing some research Al, I think I know who it is. The Giants didn't have anyone who wore #30 during that time period and I noticed the uniform was different. The socks look more like what the Pirates wore during that era, which would make that Rip Sewell in the background,

Now since that is a 1943 set, the pic was probably taken near the end of the 1942 season when the two teams met in September in NY. Sewell lost 5-0 that day. Ott went 1-for-2, with two walks.

Nice research,

and obviously the card depicts pre-game since the score board has no score.

[T206Collector]

I really like Dockmans and Goudeys. Here's a few I've held on to.







Not sure I would have gotten in to signed pre-war cards if it weren't for the signed T206 Marquards I stumbled upon on eBay in 2004. But I do like my signed T201s an awful lot.

[ullmandds]

that wags sure is a beauty!!!1

[z28jd]

To answer the original question, without t206's, I'd have a much better Old Judge collection! Damn you T206's! Damn you all!

[HRBAKER]

There would just be more bidders for the rest of the stuff.
This non-206 collector is happy they exist. Long live The
Monster.

[ullmandds]

I wonder what card would be the image of the hobby if t206 wags wasn't it??? Goudey Lajoie????

[E93]

Life would not be worth living....
JimB
P.S. Or maybe E cards could help fill the void....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tonyo

Nice research,

and obviously the card depicts pre-game since the score board has no score.

I don't have time to do the research, but that's obviously Kentucky bluegrass on the field. That should narrow things down.

[brianp-beme]

If T206's didn't exist, Burdick would have designated another set of cards to be identified as T206...perhaps cards that are now known as T207 would have fit the bill.

Brian

[ullmandds]

good point brian!!!!!!

[sportscardpete]

I wonder - if t206 didn't exist, maybe baseball cards in general wouldn't be so popular?

Imagine non-sports cards actually gain from this..

"Gretzky's Buffalo Bill sells for record at auction".

Eh, not sure if I like the ring to it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

If T206's didn't exist, Burdick would have designated another set of cards to be identified as T206...perhaps cards that are now known as T207 would have fit the bill.

Brian

I didn't want to bend the binding but if it weren't T206 it would have just been 521 ....this is from the predecessor to the ACC, The United States Card Collectors Catalog- Burdick, 1939.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I realize it's hard to fathom...a world without T206...what an empty...meaningless world it would be?! But please try!

All you T206 worshippers out there...if t206 didn't exist...would you still collect vintage bb cards...and if so...what would you collect and why?!

Peter

Very interesting question......1st of all, I would probably have more $$$$$$ in the bank. Furthermore, I wouldn't have 2000+ pretty little pieces of cardboard in albums
and scattered all around my office. However, I just may have spent more $$$$ on all my vintage BB card sets from 1887 to 1943. And, my BOWMAN's, LEAF's & TOPPS
sets.
Hey guy, perhaps I would not miss them. But, I would not trade all the challenges; or, the intellectual experiences I have had in researching the myriad mysteries that
the T206's engender.
But, most of all, the great lifetime friends I have made these past 33 years collecting these 1 7/16" x 2 5/8" pieces of artwork.

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

A set loaded with Hall of Famers, colorful artwork, detailed illustrations, back varieties, condition rarities, and print variations.

I'm referring, of course, to 1943 MP & Co.

Sometimes, T206 fans sit back and ask "How could anyone have POSSIBLY produced a set of cards like this?" and "What was going through the artist's mind when he produced this image?" Surely, people ask the exact same questions when discussing the MP & Co cards.

And, like the T206, MP & Co has its share of mysteries. For example, after putting out the set in 1943, why on earth would they have put it out AGAIN six years later, using different player names with the same artwork? Were the artists trying to improve on perfection? Were they trying to point out to young collectors that Larry Doby and Johnny Vandermeer looked so much alike that you couldn't really tell the difference between the two?

And who, exactly, is the player #30 off in the distance in the background of the Mel Ott card?



I realize it's not a very detailed image, but if you look at the earlobe, and the chin, I'd say that's a spitting image of an old Cap Anson out there, patrolling center field. What was Anson doing at the Polo Grounds in 1943, 21 years after his death? It's the kind of mystery that the hobby has never adequately addressed, if you ask me.Al

Hey Al......great response.

Should I start a survey on these ?
Or, perhaps have endless discussions on why these 1943 M & P cards were printed and issued in 8-card strips ?
Better yet, let's do a search and find someone who was involved in the "artwork" and the printing of these cards. I bet we can find some really old (older than me) guy
tell us all about them



TED Z

[CMIZ5290]

I could stop hiding money from my wife.....

[glchen]

I think collectors might be looking at T205's and their different backs the same way they do T206's now, or they would just be collecting the "T206-like" cards such as Red Cross, Coupon, etc, and make those the "new T206's."

[g_vezina_c55]

good thread !

i would collect 33 goudey instead of t206...

And according to me instead of the wagner, the holy grail could be the 33 lajoie !

[ullmandds]

did someone say...koom-ba-ya!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Easy.

Instead of endless T206 threads, Net54 would be overrun with threads discussing the nuances of the card issue that would take it's place as the most beautiful, intriguing, and significant of its era. A set loaded with Hall of Famers, colorful artwork, detailed illustrations, back varieties, condition rarities, and print variations.

I'm referring, of course, to 1943 MP & Co.

Sometimes, T206 fans sit back and ask "How could anyone have POSSIBLY produced a set of cards like this?" and "What was going through the artist's mind when he produced this image?" Surely, people ask the exact same questions when discussing the MP & Co cards.

And, like the T206, MP & Co has its share of mysteries. For example, after putting out the set in 1943, why on earth would they have put it out AGAIN six years later, using different player names with the same artwork? Were the artists trying to improve on perfection? Were they trying to point out to young collectors that Larry Doby and Johnny Vandermeer looked so much alike that you couldn't really tell the difference between the two?

And who, exactly, is the player #30 off in the distance in the background of the Mel Ott card?



I realize it's not a very detailed image, but if you look at the earlobe, and the chin, I'd say that's a spitting image of an old Cap Anson out there, patrolling center field. What was Anson doing at the Polo Grounds in 1943, 21 years after his death? It's the kind of mystery that the hobby has never adequately addressed, if you ask me.

These are the kinds of discussions we'd be having here on Net54 if T206 had never existed.

Al

The real question is why is the guy with the bat hogging #30's baseball card?

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

I wonder - if t206 didn't exist, maybe baseball cards in general wouldn't be so popular?

To take this a step further, would baseball cards even exist? They were expensive to produce.

If T206s never existed, surely candy and gum cards never would've taken off. That means baseball cards would refer to the cards of the late 1800s and probably would be forgotten altogether.

Net54 would only be known as an Internet hosting provider.

I wouldn't know anyone named Leon.

I'd spend my spare time doing something more productive.

I'd be richer.

And two guys in Ohio would be arguing over a fake stamp.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Well, I would lose one card in my collection, Zach Wheat. Not the end of my world by any means..........

[drmondobueno]

No t206?

Would probably own a couple hundred bamboo rods and a Clemente RC...

[frankbmd]

What if...T206's didn't exist?!

Everyone would have a Monster Number of zero.

Very egalitarian I might add.

[deadballfreaK]

I'd be able to afford a lot of stuff I'm doing without.

[murcerfan]

I'd still have the exact same collection that I have today, except I'd likely have been able to afford the Wagner cards missing from a few of my sets.

[Runscott]

I know this thread started as another complaint about people liking to collect T206's, and other sets not getting the air time they so richly deserve, but I think it's an intriguing question.

It's interesting that in this card fantasy, nothing replaced the T206's back in 1909. ATC just waited a couple of years and created T205's as their first set?

How about some scenarios that include some reality? If ATC had skipped T206 and waited, what would their first major set have looked like? Would whoever had the T205 design idea had his set created a year or two earlier, only huger, with perhaps some action shots for the major leaguers? Would things have stalled out and T205 and T207 ended up being much smaller sets, more in line with some of the caramel sets?

[deadballfreaK]

Fact is T206 was an amazing groundbreaking set! The art was great. The players were great. America was really in love with baseball. The time was ripe and it happened and started the hobby. I don't get anyone being jealous of the attention T206s receive.

[mrvster]

.....

I can not even imagine this scenario

[murcerfan]

It's a fact that T206 broke no ground.

[murcerfan]

fact is................pffft.

[Runscott]

I've always been amazed that there is a small group of people on this board who would insult fellow vintage-card collectors, simply because they don't have similar tastes in vintage cards.

Kind of juvenile.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I've always been amazed that there is a small group of people on this board who would insult fellow vintage-card collectors, simply because they don't have similar tastes in vintage cards.

Kind of juvenile.

Kind of like complaining about T206 threads and then starting a T206 thread.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Kind of like complaining about T206 threads and then starting a T206 thread.

Sincerely, Clayton

And then putting a buy listing on the BST for some t206s.

[atx840]

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

And then putting a buy listing on the BST for some t206s.

Oh, the irony of it all

Sincerely, Clayton