What's the toughest back in the hobby?

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

I was thinking about how impossible it is to find Three Bagger and Home Run backs in W502 and it got me wondering what the toughest card back variation is in the hobby.

I think the last time we passed the hat the results were just a few Three Baggers and a few Home Runs. These were redeemable for new baseballs so I think they mostly all got turned in (on top of probably being short printed to begin with). Even the Two Baggers are tough with their sponge baseball redemption.

So what am I missing? How many back variations are there with single-digit examples known to exist?

(if I'm off on any aspect of this please correct me, thanks)

Arthur

[Leon]

Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by Leon

Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.

Are you talking about the entire card, in general? I know there are cards that are unique. What I'd like to know is out of a set that has multiple different backs that can be found on all the cards in the set, which backs are the toughest?

Arthur

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Leon

Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.

Leon, was that the one missing from your original type collection?

[BobC]

Helmar backed S74-1 white version silks.

[fisherboy7]

T208 Cullivan’s Fireside

T216 Mino/Virginia Extra

E107 with Breisch-Williams overprint

D303 Mother’s Bread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Exhibitman]

Wool's American Maid Bread.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Leon

Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.

Leon, I think you forgot about the group of d355s posted on the PSA board about a decade ago. I think there were 3 or 4 different including a Cobb.

[darwinbulldog]

A back that can be found on every card in a set can't of course have a single digit population unless there are a single digit number of cards in the set, so how about 1869 Peck & Snyder with the advertising text back? I believe the total population is in the low single digits.

[Casey2296]

-
1922 W573 Cafe Du Monde is a tough one too.
-

[EddieP]

W515 Fleer Back.

[Vintagecatcher]

Here is my choice: T206 Ty Cobb back!

Patrick

[kmac32]

T205 Hindu backs or T207 Napoleon backs

[sb1]

Originally Posted by fisherboy7

T208 Cullivan’s Fireside

T216 Mino/Virginia Extra

E107 with Breisch-Williams overprint

D303 Mother’s Bread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All of the E107 Breisch-Williams overprints are one of a kind, no player is know with two OP's. I believe all of the stamps were applied at the same time by the same person.

[frohme]

T207 Red Cross - of the 14 or so players yet found with the back, all but one are at present unique. The other has two.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Leon, was that the one missing from your original type collection?

Yes.

And DJ, now that you mention it, I remember those D355s. Still very rare at under 5 known...


These are both low pops...

[Al C.risafulli]

. (sorry, posted in wrong thread)

Years ago, I was doing a front/back census on the W502 set and it's amazing how many intricacies there are to it. The "Three Bagger" and "Home Run" backs are deceptively rare. Over the course of a few years I polled Net54 and watched auctions and eBay to try and catalog all the different combinations there were, just to get a feel for relative scarcity.

Ultimately, I think Arthur has a good point about those two backs. We can talk about things like 1921 Herpolsheimer and other E121-related backs, the toughest T206 backs or 19th Century type cards, but when it came to those three bagger and home run backs, there were literally only a handful of examples with either back, after years of watching. About 50% of the W502s out there have blank backs, and a substantial number of the rest were single and double backs, printed with different orientations and messages. But there were only a handful of cards with the triple and home run backs. I'm not talking about a handful of cards with that possible front/back combination, I'm talking about a handful of CARDS, in the entire universe of cards I swept up in my census.

Sadly the whole census got wiped in a hard drive crash, but if I recall, there were single digits of cards with either back. That's pretty tough, relatively speaking.

-Al

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

A back that can be found on every card in a set can't of course have a single digit population unless there are a single digit number of cards in the set, so how about 1869 Peck & Snyder with the advertising text back? I believe the total population is in the low single digits.

The Three Bagger and Home Run backs were redeemable for baseballs so while I'm sure there was a diverse population of those backs at the time of printing the vast majority got turned in for a baseball. There's a reason that virtually all of the 3B and HR backs that have been found are Gehrig and Ruth -- they're most likely to have been kept despite the prize involved. Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

The Three Bagger and Home Run backs were redeemable for baseballs so while I'm sure there was a diverse population of those backs at the time of printing the vast majority got turned in for a baseball. There's a reason that virtually all of the 3B and HR backs that have been found are Gehrig and Ruth -- they're most likely to have been kept despite the prize involved. Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur

Do you believe that all W502s were printed with the Three Bager and Home Run backs?

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Do you believe that all W502s were printed with the Three Bager and Home Run backs?

I have a Bob O'Farrell with a Home Run back so I have no reason to believe that all of the cards in the set weren't printed with all of the back variations.

Arthur

[spec]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

. (sorry, posted in wrong thread)

Years ago, I was doing a front/back census on the W502 set and it's amazing how many intricacies there are to it. The "Three Bagger" and "Home Run" backs are deceptively rare. Over the course of a few years I polled Net54 and watched auctions and eBay to try and catalog all the different combinations there were, just to get a feel for relative scarcity.

Ultimately, I think Arthur has a good point about those two backs. We can talk about things like 1921 Herpolsheimer and other E121-related backs, the toughest T206 backs or 19th Century type cards, but when it came to those three bagger and home run backs, there were literally only a handful of examples with either back, after years of watching. About 50% of the W502s out there have blank backs, and a substantial number of the rest were single and double backs, printed with different orientations and messages. But there were only a handful of cards with the triple and home run backs. I'm not talking about a handful of cards with that possible front/back combination, I'm talking about a handful of CARDS, in the entire universe of cards I swept up in my census.

Sadly the whole census got wiped in a hard drive crash, but if I recall, there were single digits of cards with either back. That's pretty tough, relatively speaking.

-Al

Al,
I went through my set, which is an amalgamation of York caramels, Harrington ice cream and W502s, and found only three extra base hit backs. One home run (Rousch), one three bagger (Sam Jones) and one two bagger (Waite Hoyt). The home run and two bagger state that they are exchangable for baseballs, the three bagger says nothing.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by spec

Al,
I went through my set, which is an amalgamation of York caramels, Harrington ice cream and W502s, and found only three extra base hit backs. One home run (Rousch), one three bagger (Sam Jones) and one two bagger (Waite Hoyt). The home run and two bagger state that they are exchangable for baseballs, the three bagger says nothing.

The Two Baggers are deceptively difficult, as well. Seems like everything that could be redeemed got redeemed, starting with the Two Baggers.

Arthur

[oldjudge]

Probably Scott Brockelman's

[MMarvelli]

My research from years ago, when I was collecting W502's, has these back options:

Blank Back

ONE BAGGER (faces right)

ONE BAGGER Hold What You Got (faces right)

ONE BAGGER Hold What You Got (faces left)

TWO BAGGER (faces right)***

TWO BAGGER (faces left)

2 TWO BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)

2 TWO BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces left)

THREE BAGGER (faces right)

THREE BAGGER (faces left)

3 THREE BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)***

3 THREE BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Sponge Base Ball (faces left)

HOME RUN***

HOME RUN Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)

Faces right = Reads Bottom to Top
Faces left = Reads Top to Bottom

*** = still on my want list

[nolemmings]

Mark, here's my example of the two-bagger you need:


I owned but sold a Home Run Lazerri some time ago, but cannot seem to find a scan, sad to say.

[MMarvelli]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Mark, here's my example of the two-bagger you need:


I owned but sold a Home Run Lazerri some time ago, but cannot seem to find a scan, sad to say.

Todd

Your example faces left and reads top to bottom. I need the opposite. Thanks for trying!

[nolemmings]

Thanks for the clarification. It might be easier to just call it top to bottom or the reverse. At least this addled brain considers my Wilson to have the type facing right.

While we're on the subject, have you seen any of the extra-base hit versions listing a number as well as the verbiage, like this one? Maybe the ones that offer a redemption prize?:
NEVER MIND-- I see a three-bagger on the BST right now with the number 3, so the answer is yes.

[Vintagedeputy]

I think the most difficult back to get in this hobby is your money back!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

…Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur

That’s a hilarious quote right there!

[ValKehl]

Both types of Leader Theatre (Located in Washington, DC) cards are rare. Leon showed the W575-1 type earlier in this thread, and here is the W573 type:

[ValKehl]

Similar to the Wool's Bread card of a boxer that Adam W. showed earlier in this thread, here are couple of rare W551 cards of baseball players with Wool's Bread backs:

[Directly]

This was the the first T206 I purchased twenty years ago at St Louis and wasn't familiar with back variations. (Piedmont back)

I recently noticed this PSA quotation on my older order lists--curious was this common explanation at that time (unknown back)?--sold the card years ago, and before PSA had photos linked. Thanks!

-------------VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-11 T206 Unknown Back Ty Cobb Portrait-Red ------------

[rcbb14]

nice cards!

[Leon]

Shown once before, but, when it comes to rarity of backs, if I didn't have it in my first collection (total humility here ), it's probably rare.

I don't really remember seeing others just like this but I am sure some are around.

[ValKehl]

Here's a couple more W575-1 types with scarce/rare ad backs:

[ValKehl]

Here's a couple more W575-1 types with scarce/rare ad backs:

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Shown once before, but, when it comes to rarity of backs, if I didn't have it in my first collection (total humility here ), it's probably rare.

I don't really remember seeing others just like this but I am sure some are around.

Mine has the same signature(?) on the back.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Mine has the same signature(?) on the back.

Dang guy had both of them Thanks for sharing.

I think there are 2-3 of these backs....mabe more will come out over time.