New poll idea....Leon

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Posted By: Bobby

We live in a democratic society and feel we should do a Poll on how this board really feels about Mr.Jay Behrens. I have received numerous emails and he claims to recieve the same, cmoking called him out on it and he refuses to give details. I know another member who used to be active here until he got into with Mr. Jay Behrens and now is gone, said he played the same game of saying everyone emailed him.

The poll is done anonymously so Leon create one. And let him be judged by a jury of his peers. I know for a fact he has already been banned form another forum.

A. Ban Mr. Behren
B. Let him stay
C. Neutral

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

There are two Behren's here...

Obviously this post is a few months early... April is about 9 months away...

Jay, can you put up with Lee? Lee, can you put up with Jay?

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Posted By: leon

Don't care for that kind of poll. Not on this board.... Everyone has equal rights. Jay, you- Bobby, everyone.....as long as he puts his name by it he can say whatever he thinks, for the most part. I don't want that kind of negativity poll going on, on the board. I don't want to be part of a private one either. I don't really think Jay's other post's started out being personal...he (hi Jay) was merely making a point...towards his way of thinking. You stated yours, I stated mine, others stated theirs. Nuff said. I don't really give a rats patoot about other boards either. I don't care what happens off of this board at all, as far as this board is concerned.... If you know what I mean. Let's get back to cards and then we don't have to worry about who doesn't care for whom. best regards...

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Posted By: jay behrens

Ha Ha!!! Too funny. And so professional. In the chat room the other night, we were joking about getting Leon to run a poll as to who I should randomly attack next, since that seems to be my reputation although this last thread bore out that I get attacked even when I make a benign post.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Bobby

Leon,

It's your forum and you carry the hammer but I know you recently said you wished more people would post on the board like they do in the B/S/T I will tell you the reason why people don't post and that is because of Jay. They are afraid of what he will say next and make them feel stupid for trying something. You have to decide the same way you did with young Sean who pissed off a lot of people for idiotic posts. Maybe I am wrong and I am sure Jay is a great guy but I just feel he goes about things the wrong way in regards to this forum. He acts more like a moderator then a member.

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Posted By: Ray Anderson

You know, I have been a lurker of this board for six months or so and have only posted two or three times. Since being a member, I have checked this site religiously nearly every day. I rarely post here because I see the members of this board as the "upper crust" of the hobby. When I check this board, I get the feeling that I've snuck myself into a board meeting of extreme significance, held by some of the top minds in the hobby. I know it sounds corny, but that's the way it is. I see this as a place to come and learn, and add to the discussion only when I think I won't look like a complete novice (which is how I feel every day when I see some of the detailed and intelligent discussions going on).

But, in the past few weeks, I have read a lot of drivel, rudeness, and just plain crap (see Sudanese thread and pretty much all the threads started by that 11 yr old to name a few). But I found it entertaining (and still do). When I get tired of reading threads about cards, I "change channels" and check out the soap operas on the other threads. However, none of it rubbed me the wrong way, as few things I find on the internet rarely do.

But as an "outsider looking in," this poll idea takes the cake. While it doesn't bother me per se, I think it's pretty childish. The fact too, that you're trying to start a business with that site of yours, and openly arguing with members of the board, puts your site in a bad light. Your name is associated with your site, and therefore, what you say and do is also associated with it (nothing against your site - I think it's a great idea and a great looking site). I guess as a consumer, you and your business would've easily earned my respect if you had just ignored negative comments, or politely replied to them once. That being said, its no personal attack on you, it’s just one consumer's very humble opinion.

I guess the thing that is finally starting to bother me about all the non-card arguments going on here is the fact that on almost every other baseball card website (I frequent about four others), THIS is the site that most people refer tough vintage questions to. In other words, I'm not the only one that sees this as the crème de la crème, so to speak.

All in all, I see this as the one place where mature people can come and learn/talk about old cards; and to me, it seems like my "haven" is slowly slipping away.

Forgive me for my own drivel and probably unorganized thoughts, but it's 2:45 am and I can't sleep.

Now, with that being said, bring on your rants and raves on my post...(for those of you who care what I have to say).

Full Name: Ray Anderson
Email: gotsparks@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Mark

Ray, excellent post. The poll takes the cake for me as well. I doubt this is the way Bill Gates would roll out a new product.

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Posted By: Bobby

Ray,

I agree with you whole heartedly because this site should be about the hobby and that's all. And I have learned from reading this board daily for almost 3 years now like many others who read with out participating. And if I damaged my reputation for voiceing my opinion because some one always turns something about the hobby into a different topic and creates controversy, then I am guilty. Maybe I should'nt of said anything and sat back and let people state what ever it is they want to say and just take it. I have worked very hard on something that I think can benefit the people on this forum not only for people that pay but there is a lot of features for people who don't want to pay. I have made 2 posts about it and both times Mr. Behrens started a war.

On my first post announcing the launch, his first post:

"Well excuse me for colelcting pre-WW2 cards and not have 6 figure salary to do it. Not everyone on this board is a lawyer or doctor pulling down a huge salary every year. To some of us, like myself, an extra $10/month is a huge change to an already tight budget.

And rich people wonder why those with less get pissed off at them.

Jay"

Please tell me that I am wrong and that caused a major disruption on a nice thread and sent it spiralling into a completely wrong direction.

Then a month later after being live I made a second post telling you about new features.

He was the very first person to post on the new thread causing it to go into another negative direction. Am I wrong if so then I will never post on this forum again I promise. But what does not having a six figure income have to do with card collecting.

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Posted By: David Vargha

What's funny is that some of the biggest feather-rufflers also don't make a lot of money. Rudeness knows no socio-economic barrier. Just ignore it and look for the informative stuff. Life's too short to do otherwise.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: John

Robert,

For the record I was one of those people who emailed Jay privately to say that I thought he made a valid point. In fact it was the first time I contacted a member of this board since I decided to become a reader and not a contributor.

My point to him was only agreeing that there is a fine line between out right advertising and off the cuff FYI. Really other than that I have no opinion of you/your business or services provided. In fact as a fellow entrepreneur I wish you the best in your new venture, I know how difficult it can be to start up a business.

For the record my departure from the forum was also for attacks on my character, cheap shots etc. I don’t see any of the above examples in any of Jays posts regarding you.

The attacks toward me came from a select few who said some pretty childish and finally some down right ignorant things. Jay was not one of these people; even after I left and began “lurking” I saw some continued jabs in my direction months and months after my departure. And I’m sure after I post this some more new ones will follow. LOL

In the end I realized a very important thing it’s just an Internet chat site, there are more important things to get upset over. No matter how hard I try I will never get people to open their eyes to my views or thoughts. Ultimately I have better things to do with my time, than fight to make points in the world of cyber space. Perhaps this might help you get over the burned feeling Jay has left you with, and allow you not to make such a rash shot as above, which could have an effect on you future business.

Honestly I do wish you the best with your site, and hope the services you offer really make a positive difference in the hobby for fellow collectors.

Cheers,

John

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

People picking on John? Jay is a bad guy? And who is Bobby?

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin' don't mean nothin' if it ain't free,
And feelin' good was easy, Lord, when Bobby sang the blues
You know, feelin' good was good enough for me
Good enough for me and Bobby McGee

Got out of that one alive...

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Posted By: Ray Anderson

Bobby,

First off, let me say that I am on no one's "side" in this dispute (nor have I emailed or talked to anyone privately about this).

I (and I think most people here) can totally understand your frustration in this matter. You work your butt off on this project, have high hopes for it, and when you present it, you get some negative comments from people.

I think we've all been in that absolutely frustrating position before (whether it be turning in a science project and getting an F, or writing a long love letter to a girl only to have her ball it up in front of your face, etc).

However, that is the case when it comes to a business. My main point was this: When you run a business, you HAVE to take crap from people (at least if you want to last). It's (unfortunately) in the job description.

Picture a kid working at Taco Bell and a customer yelling at him that his taco is too cold and he wants a different one. The kid SHOULD smile, apologize, hand the guy a new one, and send him on his way. If the customer started cursing at the kid, throwing stuff at him, etc., then the kid should go to the back (privately) and get the manager.

What I think you should've done is politely responded, offered assistance where applicable, and moved on. If you thought someone was getting belligerent, you should've called the manager (in this case Leon).

I know that you're a member to this site like everyone else here, and have the same passion and desire to learn more about cards, discuss cards, etc., just as everyone else here has. But you have crossed the threshold from customer to merchant, and with that comes responsibility (to your business).

In the end, though, you're a grown man and can make your own choices on how you handle things. My opinion is just that - my opinion.

Personally, I don't want to see you, Jay, or anyone else banned from this site. I was actually sad when Sean left (if you're reading this Sean, hang in there, kid. Keep reading and keep learning).

As I said before, I actually enjoy the drama that comes up on this board. My post was more of a rant on the threads I've seen lately that have turned into shouting matches and put downs. While I DO enjoy them, I can only take so much. The "poll" was basically the spark that started my rant.

In regards to your site, I commend you and applaud you and your work (and the other people that helped you with it). I really think it's great all-around, and I think a lot of other people do as well. I also don't mind if you or anyone else posts updates, auction info, etc (that's Leon's job to figure that stuff out). I really hope you disregard the plain crap you do get from people, and realize it's going to happen. Pay more attention to the praise and the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism you receive.

On another note, while I'm still ranting, I want to thank Leon for all of his hard work, too. You somehow manage to walk the thin gray line of maintaining freedom of participation/speech AND making sure it doesn't get taken too far. Not to mention the overall fees, technical control, and "behind the scenes" stuff associated with the site. I know you get a lot of praise, and I just want to reiterate the fact that you deserve it.

Thanks, Ray

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Posted By: barrysloate

This really is an unnecessary thread and veterans on the board know that for better or worse we have a lot of personality clashes here. I guess in a way it reflects what we all go through in our everyday lives. Jay has a lot of strong opinions as he says so himself and I may not agree with them all and at times I may feel he gets a bit too edgy. But I think Jay is a pretty decent guy and quite intelligent and he is free to say what he feels like within the confines of the board rules. I think anyone who posts has to take the good with the bad. I've been attacked personally numerous times and it's been upsetting but I've learned it is part of the game. I still find it amusing that a site formed to discuss vintage baseball cards can become so contentious, but we are all different personalities and like it or not this can be a very competitive hobby. Likewise, there is no question that there is a good bit of class warfare here, with the haves and have-nots trying to coexist peacefully. Just like real life, don't you think? There's enough room for Bobby to have a website and tell us about it and for Jay to respond to it. It's not grounds for banning anyone.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the same name as the current poll if we do a poll about Jay?

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Posted By: leon

First of all I wish John didn't go to lurker status but understand folks that do. I really do hate it as I like to think of everyone as feeling welcome here. I know that is a phallacy and a dream of utopia so it will never happen. I wish it could though. I guess with some rights of the community come some sacrifices.

I saw this thread start very soon after it was posted and responded to it. As I was sitting there at around 1am I was thinking to myself "should I delete this thread?". I made the decision to have it elicit feedback. I think I made the correct one. Very high on my pet peeve list is censorship, until I feel, it becomes detrimental to the welfare of the board. Then I have no choice but to act.

Thanks for the kind words from our resident lurker who wrote very eloquently. For the record our young comrade, Sean, has emailed me a few times about coming back. I told him from the outset that he needs to take a break for 3-4 weeks and read...and if still interested he can come back on the board. I just want to make sure of his motives.....and believe I handled it correctly. Almost everyone would admit it was getting a little out of hand AND he did what I asked him not to do (*post in the EPDG thread)....I am all for young folks in the hobby. Heck, I am 44 going on 12, myself ....See ya'll at the National

And to get back on topic, as to this "poll", I haven't changed my mind..

regards....

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Posted By: anthony

after reading this thread, maybe alcohol shouldnt be served at the national dinner...yeah right! i wont be there for the dinner but "be nice"

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Posted By: steve f

Jay stays!.. (But I've got to agree, he is scary!)

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Ban Jay? Oh, yeah, real gutsy. I've found that when people can't effectively refute someone's argument they resort to irrelevant personal attacks or attempts to squelch their arguments, as in "shut up, he explained". Personally, I enjoy Jay's counterpoints and the day I feel intimidated by them is the day I am diminished as a man.

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Posted By: Bobby

Brickyard,

You obviously don't get the point this is suppose to be about bnaseball cards and not class warefare all the time which is what Jay brings into the equation. This is not 1970 anymore when you could buy a Cobb for $4.00...grow up. You have ot take the good with the bad and I have.

Since no one like my Poll idea then I suggest we go the route Mjor League Baseball seems to be doing latley...

and Make MR. Jay Behrens go to a sensitivity training seminar... maybe he can talk shop with Ozzie

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Jay is not a wallflower and his "in your face" style doesn't agree with some board members. Until he starts publicly insulting people's families or religions, he can have his opinion and his say just like all the rest of us that play here. Get over it.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Bobby,

Earlier in this thread you accused Jay of "acting more like a moderator than a member". But isn't that what you're doing by suggesting this poll, undoubtedly with the hope that Jay be banned for his comments? I think the point that you "obviously don't get" is that Leon and the other moderators will decide what's appropriate to be posted.

In any event, good luck with the venture.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

This Forum is far less informed and insightful and funny since John Wonkaticket chose to back off for a while.

Others too.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This thread reminds me of the Saturday Night Live episode calling for a ban on Andy Kaufman.

And Bobby as a business owner this is very unprofessional and only looks bad on you....as for the other thread I don't have a problem with you sharing the new features of your website...Jay only stated his opinion and made no disparaging comments towards you as a person and you attacked him with namecalling. Your website is innovative and needed in this hobby and you should let it rest on its laurels...I haven't paid for the service, but the free portion of your site is fantastic. Unfortunately for you, you may want to keep your hobby opinions to yourself for fear of alienating some of your future customers....There have been regular posters here who have gone to work for Mastro and because of that had to stop posting to the board...that is just good business sense. I see no problem with you advertising your service in the BST "everything else" section of this site...I suppose that's up to Leon, but the service you're offering is catered specifically to the guys/gals who post here. Good luck with the venture and stay out of the jungle.

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Posted By: Brian

All you whining babies should grow up. This is a vintage pre war forum, lets keep it that way!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Jay was and is deprived of attention, keep giving it to him, he loves it.

I have to get along with him, he has his opinions is very knowledgable in alot of subjects and likes telling people about it, whether they want to listen or not. On this board he has never gone to far and maded personal attacks that have been lashed in the direction of many of us on the board.

This is a free country if you play within a few rules and he has violated none. So get over it if you feel the bully is picking on you.

Good Luck with your site Robert, but please don't advertise it within the main forum. (That's my opinion on this issue).

Lee (Scarred from being brother of Jay)

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Posted By: Cobby33

As immature, childish and rude some posts on here can be, they are nothing like most of the nonsense on, for example, the Beckett Boards. (Sorry Rich, Beckett is cool, but where do you find these people on your Boards)???

At least here, almost all inquiries are addressed by folks who are very knowledgeable about the hobby and who are willing to share their insight. With regard to the obligatory, unnecessary jabs and unfounded "viewpoints," they can be ignored. They can also be addressed, it's up to you, but realize that you may not always be presented with (what many times is not) a coherent response. I don't think it's much different than some people we work with/against/etc.

We all should check the Beckett Boards once in a while and be happy that this Board (usually) doesn't stoop to those levels. (Thanks, Leon)!

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jay stays.

let this other clown and his spam go back to from where he came...the PSA forums i'd guess.

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Posted By: ralph

I say.." slay the beast " !!

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Posted By: ScottIngold

At least Jay's attacks are eloquant. More than can be said over at CU.

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Posted By: Wesley

The poll idea is ridiculous. Jay only voiced his opinion about commercial websites doing too much advertising on the main forum. I do not always agree with Jay, but in this case, he is absolutely correct.

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Posted By: Steve M.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Steve is right. Time to put this baby to bed.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I always like Jay's quotes in his signature lines.

Adam B

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEE B

Was it the Righteous Brothers' song....or some other group I am quoting here ?

Anyhow, I am still somewhat of a "rookie" on this Forum (compared to most of you guys)
and I did not know how to take Jay B. at first....a little over a year ago when I switched.
from being a "reader" to a "poster". However, it took me a few months to realize he does
not do "b....s", and it was then that I learned to appreciate Jay and he's is an alright guy
with me........for whatever that is worth.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Ted:

That song peaked at #7 in 1970 as performed by the Hollies.

Kevin

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Posted By: martindl

Well now I think I've about seen it all, though I'm sure I'll be proved wrong in the future.

A Business owner gets all ruffled because someone posts re. the appropriateness of having ANY business starting posts in the main section whenever they have updates. Now the same business owner wants to start a poll in the hope that the masses will side with him and have the bad boy poster banned. I'm being facetious with 'bad boy poster' btw, lest it was lost on anyone.

re. Dan's comment "Unfortunately for you, you may want to keep your hobby opinions to yourself for fear of alienating some of your future customers.." mark me down as someone who was already alienated when Bobby started arguing with prospective customers over the desire for a trial period that didn't include an 'opt out' option. You take the input, thank people for giving it, and then choose to listen to the feedback or you just ignore it. You don't start arguing with people or try to point out why their perspective is wrong.

People can create the most fantastic services in the world, but when their isn't the corresponding level of customer service attitude to go along with it, then sadly those services generally die on the vine. Shame really, because it looks as though quite a few people find value.

Bobby, maybe you can learn a lesson here.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I think it takes a brave person to admit that Jay is their brother. I therefore nominate Lee for an N54 award recognizing his honesty.

Lee has told us what Jay's issues are, now we all need to be more sensitive to Jay's ADD (attention deprivation disorder)

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Sure, Jay is a big knucklehead but as a business decision, this suggestion for a "poll" on a veteran member is a pretty staggering mistake. If a neutrally phrased, nonpersonal question about board posting policy like Jay's can produce that much negativity from a business owner, then we'd all better watch what we say about vintagecardprices.

I was on the fence whether to renew the monthly thing, because I hadn't yet found $10 of use from it, but I hadn't looked that hard yet. I think this helped make up my mind.

Good night, and good luck
Tim

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Kevin

You are absolutely correct. But, I must explain my confusion with the
Righteous Bros. There was a really great place at the Jersey shore in
Wall Twp. in the '60s and the '70s called the PlayRoom Lounge that fea-
tured some great live bands on the weekends.

During the weekdays they had a "comic" of a DJ who loved to play this
song and everytime he played it, he would credit the Righteous Bros.
and not the Hollies.

Thanx for crediting the right group.

Ted Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hollies were a terrific band. Lead singer was Graham Nash!

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

In one of the worst singing voices I've ever heard, Neil Diamond did (and had a hit with) it too.

Barry,

Think Allan Clarke was the lead singer on "He Ain't......".

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Vintage Card Prices has proven their customer service to me throughout my initial trial period with their utility. I had nothing but problems and special considerations, mostly due my own fault; and each of them were dealt with efficiently, promptly and with care and understanding well beyond what I would expect from a new business effort.

Top accolades to Bobby in this regard. Thank you.

Perhaps he has made some errors in judgement in some posts, and maybe I have too.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Just know Graham Nash. Not familiar with Clarke...was he later? Might be past my time.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Actually, Clarke was earlier. The Hollie's first lead singer. Bus Stop, Stop!, and others. Read this in a book, of course, being far too young.........,ahem.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Hey now, you guys are taking from the topic at hand, getting me banned

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Jay,
Is that actually a smiley face at the end of your post. You arent caving in and gett'in soft on us are you??
Tony

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Posted By: barrysloate

The Hollies were a band I listened to but didn't know the personel. Thanks for the info...and I am old enough.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Alas, Barry, I too am old enough. Sigh!

Jay: Sorry for the slight!! Please hold fire!! (lol)

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Wonkaticket- you need to come out of the closet....I miss
your hilarious post replies.

Jay - is a homo ,didnt you see that weird suit he had on
when the post came up on ,what do you look like ?....think
he was playing "tinkerbell" in a play and ended up looking
like a GRAY TURD !.....you dress like that in front of me and I'll hit you with a bat, and when you dont budge,I'll
run you over with my COMMANDER HEMI !!!!...not so tough
now ,are you JAY ???

Just kidding Jay...keep being yourself ,just stay away
from MEEEEEEE !!!