OT: Not baseball related, but need ID help.

[Brian Van Horn]

If anyone knows of a good group for identifying a black football player from the 1920's, please let me know. Heritage Auctions eliminated itself by the behavior of one of its agents today.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Heritage Auctions eliminated itself by the behavior of one of its agents today.

Do tell...

[Brian Van Horn]

Five items, including one just in humor, run by an agent in e-mail and here was his last response:

"Thank you for all your messages but I’m afraid we wouldn’t be the right fit. We wish you luck should you decide to sell elsewhere."

At no point during the exchange of e-mails did he ever give a first name.

I called Heritage about an hour later and spoke with the woman I spoke to yesterday. She was helpful yesterday and today and asked for the e-mail address from which I received the correspondence which struck her as being a general e-mail address for Heritage.

Nothing like anonymity and no estimate on worth. Of course, that last correspondence was a hint.

[Michael B]

It does look a bit like Fritz Pollard.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Michael B

It does look a bit like Fritz Pollard.

Thank you, Michael.

Further comments are welcome.

[brianp-beme]

A photo of Fritz Pollard, along with a close-up of the same photo for comparison.

Brian

[JollyElm]

Maybe this will help a little...

1928footballplayer.jpg

The elongated face and a distinctly different nose shape point to it being a 'most likely not,' but it's tough with the distortion of that grainy photo to know what reality is.

[Brian Van Horn]

Gentlemen,

Thank you. Looks like I have a 37 inch long original photo of Fritz Pollard with his and another team posing together. Here are poor examples as a result of my phone of parts of the photo.

I am not bragging, but I am kind of happy now that a rep from Heritage Auctions who didn't ID himself with a first name stated he was "afraid we wouldn’t be the right fit." Picture is not hot and was purchased legally.

[Brian Van Horn]

One other note. I also sent the guy in the same e-mail a photo of the 1924 (marked 1924) in the bottom right side of the photo of the Falls Lumber Co professional football team. Feel free to do the research.

[Musashi]

Those are some sweet photos

[Snapolit1]

Had a similar mystifying exchange with Heritage in 2023. Just for fun sent them a cool Type 1 photo I have. Sent to link on website and attached a photo. Asked for some kind of estimate. Crickets. Zero. No response. Waited like a month and sent it to one of the named sports experts. I waited. Told him I was pretty surprised no one responded in any way. He apologized and asked me to send it. Got a response that basically said limited value …. If it was a photo used in a card would be worth something.” Good luck with the sale.

It’s the original Type 1 photo from Gehrigs W590 card. Marked with editorial markings. I believe the actual photo used to make the strip card. Measurement and notes on back. One of Lou’s earliest cards.

Realize “Lou Gehrig”’is a name that might not set off many alarm bells at the world’s leading auction house.

Probably would have been better if I left it at no response.

[Brian Van Horn]

Steve,

Same issue here when I first submitted over a month ago. No evaluations on the five items in the current matter and I only submitted with this item with humor including a "LOL".

I knew it wasn't King Kelly. Still, that may have started things, but it doesn't justify the agent remaining anonymous and not giving an evaluation of the other items.

Now, to counterbalance him, on Monday and yesterday I spoke over the phone with a Catela Ware who was fantastic at her job and e-mailed the department both days on my behalf.

[Snapolit1]

Maybe they have so much amazing stuff pouring in to auction that they just don’t give enough of a crap to respond to one off inquiries. Then don’t have a link saying submit your stuff here if you want an estimate. Problem solved.

[rhettyeakley]

I like you Brian…but you have a bit of a checkered past when it comes to photo identification.

I imagine the rep from Heritage was not comfortable with your assertions as to who is in the photos.

Again, not trying to start something with you again (no Herpolsheimer nonsense ) but there are collectors that are good at photo ID’s and others aren’t.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I like you Brian…but you have a bit of a checkered past when it comes to photo identification.

I imagine the rep from Heritage was not comfortable with your assertions as to who is in the photos.

Again, not trying to start something with you again (no Herpolsheimer nonsense ) but there are collectors that are good at photo ID’s and others aren’t.

Brett,

THANK YOU for the set up. Who do you think may be on the following postcard? Tongue-in-cheek.

Thank you again,

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Brett,

THANK YOU for the set up. Who do you think may be on the following postcard? Tongue-in-cheek.

Thank you again,

Brian

Feel free to let us know who it is and the supporting evidence that it is that person, beyond the “it kinda looks like him” rationale. Provenance and context is VERY important.

Otherwise, it is a seemingly nice RPPC of the “Walton Athletic Club” featuring a group of teenage boys with their “Manager”

Most major auction houses are not going to spend hours researching these types of pieces unless there is a preponderance of evidence that it is what is purported.

From the auction houses perspective… if the item is ever discovered to NOT be what is being reported it gives the Auction a black eye and most are just not interested in taking that chance.

[JollyElm]

Do not take this as argumentative, but I'm confused, are people actually now concluding that the player in the photo is Fritz Pollard??

Facial features aside, just a check on Wikipedia says he was only 5'9" (probably a heightened - get it? - exaggeration), and the page includes a pic of him looking pretty miniature next to 6'3" Paul Robeson, yet the player in question is pretty darned big, tall and lanky (and not squat at all) compared to all of the others pictured, no??

I encourage interested parties to go further with the research before concluding anything. (And don't shoot the messenger, I have enough problems to deal with.)

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Do not take this as argumentative, but I'm confused, are people actually now concluding that the player in the photo is Fritz Pollard??

Facial features aside, just a check on Wikipedia says he was only 5'9" (probably a heightened - get it? - exaggeration), and the page includes a pic of him looking pretty miniature next to 6'3" Paul Robeson, yet the player in question is pretty darned big, tall and lanky (and not squat at all) compared to all of the others pictured, no??

I encourage interested parties to go further with the research before concluding anything. (And don't shoot the messenger, I have enough problems to deal with.)

My first impression was Wesley Snipes. I looked at the face and nothing else to come up with Pollard. I would prefer to look at the photo in person to see the front and back, but that was not the option.

[JollyElm]

The bookends are known Pollard pics, pug nose and all. He has a very distinct face. 'They' cannot be the same fellah as the one in the middle...

Pre-1926-football-teams-photo-(zoom).jpg

[drcy]

It's not Babe Ruth, if that helps.

[Bigdaddy]

Looks like Scottie Pippen's father.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

A photo of Fritz Pollard, along with a close-up of the same photo for comparison.

Brian

Deleted because Jolly Elm already made the same point