$50,000 investment

[ichieh]

If you were given $50,000 to invest in sports cards, how would you invest it. Who are the players you would invest and what grades?

1. Baseball/prewar
2. baseball/postwar
3. basketball
4. football
5. hockey

[Kawika]

Anybody heard from Joe P. lately? He hasn't posted in a while. Hope he's OK. This one's right up his alley.

[philliesphan]

I do not think there is a definitive way that will clearly make you a guaranteed return on investment. [obviously -- or others would do it].

It's hard to believe that anything postwar would justify such an investment.

Also, with the time and costs of moving material, it seems like buying fewer quality pieces would be the way to go.

There seem to be a handful of examples of cards that have realized significant gains over the past few years. The most recent example that comes to mind is the Ty Cobb Advertising back card, which now seems to be more firmly rooted as a ~$100K+ card, a significant step change from prior years and sales.

However, other cards do not seem to have similar acceleration. the T206 Magie, for example, has not seen much change valuewise over the past few years. You could invest in high-grade, low-population prewar cards, but oftentimes it is a very thin market of interested buyers willing to pay (significant) premiums for such cards.

Rare backs, overprints, caramel cards, etc. all seem to go through peaks and valleys.

I would recommend E90-1 Joe Jackson, or perhaps N173 Hall of Famers.

[Rob D.]

R306 Butter Creams, lower grade, 50-50 mix of commons and Hall of Famers.

[calvindog]

1 high grade Pete Rose rookie card. SGC 98.

Or maybe three of them.

[FrankWakefield]

Can't be done.

Invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, a home, real estate, an education for yourself, spouse or child...

[calvindog]

What can't be done? Investing in baseball cards?

Frank, how about I make you a million dollar bet: I say you can invest 50K in baseball cards, you say you can't. Are we on?

[ullmandds]

I'd buy one of the icons of the hobby...like the 33 goudey lajoie...or a t206 plank...or a t206 magie...or a run of t206 backs...or any super scarce...yet popular issue depicting one of the 1st class of hof'ers...i can think of many ways to spend/invest 50K on bb cards!!!

[3-2-count]

I'd go for 19th century and early 20th century cabinets and start with this one.

[Bill Stone]

I would buy the finest example possible of a T210 Stengel then invest the rest , if any, in early Pacific Coast League pennants.

[camlov2]

isn't the first rule of investing to diversify?

I wouldn't want to put all the money in one area/card (example-Pete Rose) just to find out that 5 more Gem mint 10's were graded over the next few months.

Like any investment I would look to buy low. Anything that I thought was a good deal and that could be resold would get a second look.

[4815162342]

I don't think baseball cards are for investing; they're for collecting. Invest in mutual funds for retirement; collect baseball cards for enjoyment.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by camlov2

Like any investment I would look to buy low. Anything that I thought was a good deal and that could be resold would get a second look.

I think this is really key!!! More money can be made on the buy side than the sell side, especially in this hobby (imo). If I had 50k to invest I would look for the best looking cards for the grade, of higher end HOF'ers. I would want to buy cards in the 2-4 grade range that present 1-3 grades higher, but pay at the bottom of those scales. As for the era I would stick with Pre-WWII but arguments could be made for post war also.

Frank- this is hypothetical. I DON'T think it would be unwise to put some money into our hobby as a piece of your investment strategy. It's all about balance.....and I am meaning this on a general basis. My balance is heavily weighted in cards but I am an addict and don't recommend it.

[glynparson]

Whyatever you can find underpriced. Heck that's how I'm buying a new house.

[yanks12025]

I know it's not on the list and its not dealing with cards but a game used babe Ruth bat or other hof bats.

[tbob]

I's spend the entire $50,000 on the best available E94s, D311s, M116s and T207s with Cycle backs. Not only would you have beautiful cards but you have cards from 4 sets which have definite growth potential as all are undervalued cards at this time.

[MBMiller25]

I would buy 5 of the nicest NM graded (SGC or PSA) 51 Bowman Mantles that I could find. Finding 5 will be difficult (from a time spent standpoint), but from a shear investment standpoint, I think this card is very undervalued and would allow you to do well on a 50K investment.

Edit to add: I just got into collecting about two years ago, so I have Zero knowledge of the Pre-War card market and what might constitute a nice investment on the Pre-War side of the hobby, as my focus has been on Post War from 48-55.

[benchod]

My balance is heavily weighted in cards but I am an addict and don't recommend it.[/QUOTE]

agreed. I know the feeling well

[martyogelvie]

I would buy a T206 Cobb/Cobb that you guys been bitching about the past week!

[jb217676]

I would buy 23 PSA 10 Pete Maravich cards!

[mark evans]

I don't see how the past performance of any card, type of card, or set of cards necessarily indicates future performance. I would buy cards I like at fair market value (presumably based upon recent auctions) as a hobby. If their values increase over time, so much the better.

Mark

[jimthorpe]

If I was given $50K to invest, I would not change much in what I am doing now. Except when a good opportunity came around I would pounce on it.

I do agree with several of the collectors who have stated that cards are for collecting not investing. If you truly buy items while looking at it as a total investment, you probably will not last long in the hobby. Copeland comes to mind. If I can remember correctly he amassed his collection within 5 years or so. Prior to the Halper sale that was the biggie as auctions go.

Sets, cards, eras etc all fall in and out of favor with collectors and prices fluctuate accordingly especially with the rare stuff. So buy what you like and don't worry about what is going on around you. When it is all said and done, if you were a good steward with your money you will come out ahead. You might lose on one thing but will do great on another but overall you will come out ahead and have a great ride doing it.

If you are constantly looking at it as an investment, you probably have too much money tied up in your hobby.

[drdduet]

I'd buy silver bullion.

[ChiefBenderForever]

If strictly for an investment you would have to be insane to invest in cards. To pick a sure winner is impossible, you might as well go bet 25g's on red and cross your fingers. I don't see any huge spikes coming anytime soon, except for the occaisional surprise here and there. If buying off ebay or auction house you are already paying a premium so to make significant gains is not likely. Take the Gretzky cards you are talking about selling, unless you got them for a steal and had them graded yourself you will be lucky to break even, if you wait they could go up or they could continue to slide. Jordan RC's are low but could keep sliding as well. The Mantle Bowman RC's are nice but no promise they will climb in price at all, many buyers are just retired who grew up watching him and paying good money but as they fade so could his prices. It's just a hobby with fringe benifits of having value, but anything more than that and you could be asking for a major letdown and serious cash loss.

[Leon]

To all,
This question, as written, was about INVESTING 50k in the hobby. It was not IF it should be invested. The "if" part is certainly debatable but that wasn't the question.

My answer stands as it is from above......I think a small portion of any portfolio could be in antiquities and "the right" cards are as good any. Just my opinion...

[Robextend]

I think it is pretty tough to predict what might gain value in the future. I would most likely invest in "sure things".

IMO there will always be a market for:

-Mickey Mantle 52 Topps, and high grade Mantle issues
-Presentable T206 Cards
-Any good example of a historic figure (Goudey Ruth, E90-1 Jackson, etc..)

I think there is a good bet that those cards would at least not decrease, and most likely increase in value...but who the heck knows!

[mark evans]

I would amend my above response to note that if an investor could accurately predict the future Hall of Fame induction of an old-timer who appears on only a handful of cards, those could offer a fertile ground for collection. The one card I own that has increased substantially in value is the Dreyfuss Tip-Top for that very reason.

[glchen]

If you can stomach risk, PSA 10 rookie cards of future superstar HOFers. For example, some people think Jeter's SP RC will only gain in value as Jeter passes 3000 hits, and if he can break Rose's record, forget about it. However, if Jeter gets injured or slows down, you're screwed. I would probably also avoid stars with the steroids taint. Bonds with 7 MVP's is arguably one of the greatest players ever. However, nobody cares about his cards because of the taint. So, ARod's cards are iffy. And of course, if you bought Jeter RC's, and if he ever gets outed, you're screwed again.

I also like Jordan RC's. Even though he's been retired for years, everybody still talks about him. Even if you don't collect basketball cards, many, many collectors still want one Jordan RC in their collection. So, even though the supply even in high grades is more than pre-war, there's still a strong demand.

I collect mostly pre-war, so I think the investment quality for these cards are probably going to be mostly cyclical as others have said. I did read an article recently that basically compared a bucket of iconic prewar cards to the stock market, and the analysis was that the increase in value of the cards easily beat the market. Can't seem to find that article, however.

[cobblove]

Nothing PSA or SGC 10

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah Jordan RCs in 10s are the way to go for sure. Had you bought them at their peak you would only be down about 70 percent now. So they can only go back up, right?

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by glchen

I would probably also avoid stars with the steroids taint. Bonds with 7 MVP's is arguably one of the greatest players ever. However, nobody cares about his cards because of the taint.

This may be a GOOD reason to invest in Bonds stuff right now. The prices are low, and in many years down the road the steroid era could be compared to the Black Sox scandal. Look how many Black Sox and Joe Jax collectors there are. Maybe in the future there will be Steroid scandal collectors of Bonds, Clemens, Canseco, McGwire etc who (perhaps) didn't get into the HOF due to cheating?

Just a thought
Rob

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Leon

To all,
This question, as written, was about INVESTING 50k in the hobby. It was not IF it should be invested. The "if" part is certainly debatable but that wasn't the question.

My answer stands as it is from above......I think a small portion of any portfolio could be in antiquities and "the right" cards are as good any. Just my opinion...

Leon, you beat me to the punch. The question was which cards would you buy, not should you buy cards. Obviously I agree with the poster who echoed my feelings, that if the cards became worthless tomorrow would you still love 'em? I would. If I had a $50,000 windfall today, though, I would be buying gold mining stock.

[Touch'EmAll]

$50.k buys you a real stong bet at appreciation with the following:

PSA 5 to 7 and nice for the grade
T206 Cobb's
T206 Mathewson's
T206 W. Johnson's
T206 Young's

cheers !