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s.slacksMW: I have experience in vintage cards, both in buying a selling. I am not a dealer, but I don’t think that makes my opinion any less relevant. In addition to tracking the results myself, in addition to crossing over many cards from SGC to PSA (and many cards the other way), I have submitted raw to both companies.
The beauty of the Internet is that with a little perseverance, you can get a very good idea what the market is doing, and has done.
I can give you many examples, but I haven’t bothered because I am sure you can produce examples of similarly graded SGC cards outselling PSA ones. I’m not going to cut and paste the completed eBay auctions for you, but take a look. Search by grade. Look at the cards.
I completely stand by my statement that, on average, a vintage card in a PSA holder will sell for more than the same card in a SGC holder.
And to runscott: I’m just being honest. I don’t support PSA whole-heartedly. As I said, I’m a realist, and I track the results of suctions myself and through one of many services..
Look, I prefer the SGC holder in aesthetics and the graders for consistent grading. When I submit to PSA, I’m never quite sure what will come back. I have most of my personal collection in SGC. But, to expand on my point, I can buy raw T206 commons for maybe $12-14. That card can get a PSA 3 grade (IMO they let almost anything into a 3 folder) and sell for about $32. Or I can submit to SGC and have it come back 30 or 20 and they sell for half that.
If I were selling cards only to the people on this board, I’d only deal in SGC. But – and I made this point in my rant about accepting PayPal – I want to cast my net as widely as possible. There’s some guy out there who doesn’t have time to research cards, grading companies, auction houses, forums, etc., and all he knows is that PSA is the biggest grading company out there, that they guarantee their cards are authentic, and he’s going to do an eBay search under “T206 PSA.” He buys cards and I want to sell to him –not because I’m money-grubbing, but because I owe it to myself and my family to maximize my return.
Jason: for the second time, I never used those percentages or made any statement as to your cards’ value. Look back at the thread -- I just did. Runscott said that he used a certain percentage of NM to value VG’s and I expanded on the math. Nothing to do with you.
And to the old, tired, buy the card not the holder: I do this (usually), you do this, yeah, yeah. But the bottom line is that the grade adds value to a card. In many cases, an early 1950’s Bowman PSA 8, for example, has a value many times that of a PSA 7. What the casual buyers don’t know (or care?) is that that card may have finally earned that grade on the fourth submission. Same card, sells for more. It’s the same principle for grading companies.
<<By virtue of your own response, it seems that you have a genuine concern about the dissemination of vital information to the collectors and readers of this forum. Would that be the case if they represented "a tiny percentage of the market" like you claim?>>
I don't see the correlation. My point is that we're a tiny part of PSA's market - they don't cater to us. This lets them continue their poor customer service and allows them to never have fullt addresed the WIWAG affair. If we all go away thet'd be fine grading 2001 LeBron cards (or whatever). But that doesn't take away from the fact that their holders help cards sell.
And, MW, no, I'm not related to Joe Orlando.
Sorry to post so long – I hope that adds some clarity to my earlier post.